28 replies to this topic

[Zabadoo]

Time and time again lights are being feared. For even a single spider had destroyed 2 or more assaults pop tarting around them. Duel streaks are useless because they don't catch them and usually hit something else. And you need to shoot hundreds to see any effect. While watching the opening ceremony someone said and atlas feared seeing a spider group coming his way. But that's not the case. It's just a single spider who can't be hit by good pilots that makes that atlas run. You need ace pilots with insane shooting skills to hit them. LRM's could be the equalizer only if they couldn't be outrunned so fast. Or the fact that they jump and turn or dodge LRM's so easy. Or just do 1 thing that could even the playing field. And bring SSRM 4 and or 6 to the playing field as it should be. Because the way they hit all over as it is makes a SSRM 2 almost useless.

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I endorse this comment o7

[Marvyn Dodgers]

Does Garth's post in Announcements provide any hope for you on this front?

[1Sascha]

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And bring SSRM 4 and or 6 to the playing field as it should be. Because the way they hit all over as it is makes a SSRM 2 almost useless.

Yup.

Might also help to fix the hitboxes on the spider and to make using jump-jets a bit more challenging. They should generate more heat and, oh well.. I'll just quote sarna:

Quote

Care must be taken when jumping, however, as jumping causes heat buildup with even the shortest jump generating more heat than running, and damage to a 'Mech's gyro or leg actuators and joints can cause a 'Mech to fumble upon landing

If launching a few LRMs brings your heat up to dangerous levels, surely firing off a stream of superheated plasma through some jumpjets should also increase heat noticeably.

And how about a an X% chance of messing up a landing? If landing fails, the Mech stumbles or becomes immobile for a while. Could even come up with a new pilot efficiency that would decrease the chances of messing up a landing.

It would also be nice to have less randomness in Streak targeting. Yes, I know we'll probably never see them all go for the CT, and we'll probably never get the ability to target individual components. But it would be nice if the CT-probability would get a slight increase. As it is now, they just go all over the place if you're unlucky. Kinda like the UAC5: If everything works ideally, it's brilliant. If it doesn't, the weapon is near useless.



S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 06 October 2013 - 02:56 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

SRM2 is an insane joke in this game. Aside from one-trick builds you'd have to be crazy to get an SRM2 plus a whole ton of ammo for the damage that it does.

[Wesxander]

I am curious why should mech moving at 154kph be easy to kill? Because you say your superior to it ? IN classic battle tech a spider can and will bring down a standard atlas if they know what they doing with bit luck. Example below: Ok guys roll for initiative the spider roll 8 he elects to go after the atlas. The atlas moves 4 towards he spider who is now 5 away at run speed. Spider elects to run speed 12. He takes 3 turns to get behind the atlas so number hexes moved = 9. Atlas torso twists to get one arm shot at the spider. He fires first 2 medium lasers from the atlas need a 5 +3 +2 = 10 or higher to hit. He rolls gets a 7 and 9 average rolls. No damage to the spider. The spider now rolls 5 base gunnery +2 for running +1 for the atlas movement= 8. He rolls get a 2 and 10. The spider then records 5 damage to the atlas rear torso rightside. Next round the atlas wins initiative he elects for the spider to go. Sighting a hill that blocks los 5 hexes away the spider runs behind it the Atlas with his max speed of 5 cannot break los. No shooting this round. Next round the Atlas and the spider go again. Sounds bad on table top, however the way you think is see the mech running account for speed pull the trigger the mech dies. It's speed should not play a factor. In certain ww 2 dog fights certain aircraft were considered unkillable but aces could kill them by anticipating the enemies course of actions and predicting it. You want eliminate that and just say big mechs should 1 shot lights. See the mech point at it shoot it and then it dies. If we go by that standard no one should play lights ever. An assault should not dread seeing a light dueling with it on 1 on 1 away from his teammates. Everyone should pilot assaults and if they shoot anything lighter than them by 5 tons it should die immediately after all its not allowed to have damage mitigation for speed factored in that's un fair. FYI my spider is about worthless now the new "improved" exploit rewind a lot players using make rewind right in front them every time. I cant hug a mechs side counting on his teammates to shoot him while I run circle around his feet. As far annoying lights go spiders have to hit their targets they don't get auto aim fire and forget missiles like ravens or jenners that rip stuff apart with it, or like the new Kintaro auto streak cats running around. That rip assaults apart just as bad as any light. Many spider pilots had train for hours to get good enough to survive but you don't care about that they should die one shoted anytime someone sees the mech. Only assaults should survive being shot at by multiple mechs and continue being able to fight. Speed mitigation should not exist it ruins the whole idea of unarmored shooters running at race car seeds.

Edited by Wesxander, 08 October 2013 - 03:46 PM.

[1Sascha]

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SRM2 is an insane joke in this game. Aside from one-trick builds you'd have to be crazy to get an SRM2 plus a whole ton of ammo for the damage that it does.

Well, yes and no. I'd never mount an SRM2 either (what's the point?) , but Streaks seem to work ok-ish, despite their flaws/nerfs.

These days, Lights are everywhere it seems. 3 or 4 is practically the norm, having 6 or 7 on a team isn't *that* unusual. So I've converted a lot of my builds to carry at least two Streak launchers plus I've dusted off my Jäger A and equipped it with four of them. Even that build isn't enough to kill or even cripple an attacking Light reliably. While damage sure isn't too shabby (4x5 per full salvo), it's usually all over the place (if you're lucky and your hits actually register). But it seems to deter all but the really good pilots from sticking around for too long, making them run off in search for other targets.

Given the state of connections and the presence of that stupid "getting hit without hit-feedback"-behaviour, I really wish we'd have the ability to mount rearward facing defensive weapons (which should be canonical on some of the bigger Mechs, AFAIK). Or at least a rear-view mirror/camera to check six.

As it is now, time and again I get critted by Spiders who'll run up to my (seismic-less) Stalker, park on my six and plink away at my rear CT without me even noticing because the game neither displays a damage indication on the HUD nor a flashing paper-doll nor does it play "getting hit" sounds.


S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 09 October 2013 - 12:09 AM.

[xtase]

I've ran my 5x LL STK-5M, it has seismic, and don't worry, it doesn't do much good against spiders that are red-hot from your alpha that keep running circles around you/someone else like it was nothing.

I don't even bother fighting lights in close range, you'll barely hit them regardless of what you're packing. And I've got a 55 ms ping to the servers.

It's common to see a last-man-standing light mech just run around aimlessly while half of your team is shooting it without effect.

Just remove light mechs if they can't get fixed, this is pure bs. There is a difference between good pilots and pilots exploiting lagshields/hitboxes.

[D04S02B04]

All the spider mech pilots who think that it takes hours of intense practice can ****** off and try playing a close assault medium mech. I've played a Centurion and a Kintario, running SRM6s + Medium Laser and I can tell you it is infinitely more difficult to survive and deal damage as a Centurion than a Spider.

As a Centurion, if I'm unlucky, I died with about 100 damage because I get alpha-ed by a good pilot. If I'm exceedingly lucky, managed to dodge between buildings, have a good assault mech pilot who knows to bring his guns to the fore (instead of Atlas firing LRMs pretending they are catapults) which I can support... then maybe I'll deal 300-400 damage consistently. 600 on good days.

If I was just a spider, I don't give a damn about damage. I will always deal about 100-200 damage and I will cause so much chaos in the enemy team, that our team automatically win. It's near impossible to hit a spider, that does not to be hit.

If those "pro" spider pilots get into a Centurion, they wouldn't last long. Their shooting is pretty crappy anyway. I've spectated most of these lights and frankly speaking, they don't know how to coordinate their mech turning with shooting.

[1Sascha]

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It's common to see a last-man-standing light mech just run around aimlessly while half of your team is shooting it without effect.

LOL.. that sounds incredibly familiar.

It's also very common that the last Mech standing is ... *dramatic pause* ... a Spider.


Gee, I wonder why...



S.

[Kain]

Yeah, On the battlefield, I am more scared of Spiders than Atlases / Atlai...

And next week we get the Locust!!..oh joy!....

[ShinVector]

Kain, on 10 October 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

Yeah, On the battlefield, I am more scared of Spiders than Atlases / Atlai...

And next week we get the Locust!!..oh joy!....

Insects Rule !!
Honestly you should be more scared of assault mechs, Spider don't kill you as fast.

[1Sascha]

ShinVector, on 10 October 2013 - 01:39 AM, said:

Insects Rule !!

Well, technically...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachnid


... and why should we be afraid of Locusts? Just do what the Chinese do..:





<G,D,R>




S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 11 October 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[CGB Behemoth]

One more "I'm crabhand that can't shoot light" troll detected!

SSRM2 - reaps lights apart
ASRM6 - same here
AC20 - MMMMM. Just perfect antilight weapon
UAC5 - goodbye lights legs
AC5+AC2 - dakka-dakka light killer
Pulse lasers - good enought in light-killing
Lasers - not too good
Gauss - needs many training, good FPS, good reaction
PPC,ERPPC,AC10 - need practice
LRM - you are dead man (stay with team looser).

Lights no trouble at all with new weapon HSR system (just those damn hitboxes of Spider needs some work).

[Firenze]

Wait wait wait... The jist Im getting from this thread is ' lights are OP because they are fast'

Thats... kinda dumb honestly. Speed is Life. Be you a med, heavy, light, Getting in and out of danger is a better armour than your freaking CT armour. If you are having trouble hitting lights, I actually found the best way to learn to hit them, is play one yourself. Lights have a whole new ball game to play, and the reactions of some of the best pilots are ridiculous. Just lead your targets, youll be fine.

[aniviron]

1Sascha, on 06 October 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

And how about a an X% chance of messing up a landing? If landing fails, the Mech stumbles or becomes immobile for a while. Could even come up with a new pilot efficiency that would decrease the chances of messing up a landing.

It would also be nice to have less randomness in Streak targeting. Yes, I know we'll probably never see them all go for the CT, and we'll probably never get the ability to target individual components. But it would be nice if the CT-probability would get a slight increase. As it is now, they just go all over the place if you're unlucky. Kinda like the UAC5: If everything works ideally, it's brilliant. If it doesn't, the weapon is near useless.

"Jumpjets need more randomness to balance them."
"streaks need less randomness because if you can't control it, it's worthless."

Just want to point out that your second argument perfectly sums up why your first one is bad.

[Navid A1]

Firenze, on 11 October 2013 - 05:23 AM, said:

...
Just lead your targets, youll be fine.

yes. but that was before HSR.
before HSR one could easily find the hitbox with a couple of shots... now... impossible to find... the hitbox just freaks out around the target mesh even with near zero jitter.

[-Muta-]

Zabadoo, on 06 October 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

Time and time again lights are being feared. For even a single spider had destroyed 2 or more assaults pop tarting around them. Duel streaks are useless because they don't catch them and usually hit something else. And you need to shoot hundreds to see any effect. While watching the opening ceremony someone said and atlas feared seeing a spider group coming his way. But that's not the case. It's just a single spider who can't be hit by good pilots that makes that atlas run. You need ace pilots with insane shooting skills to hit them. LRM's could be the equalizer only if they couldn't be outrunned so fast. Or the fact that they jump and turn or dodge LRM's so easy. Or just do 1 thing that could even the playing field. And bring SSRM 4 and or 6 to the playing field as it should be. Because the way they hit all over as it is makes a SSRM 2 almost useless.

Brought to you by Zabadoo
I endorse this comment o7

Get a JR7-D install streaks+BAP just in case you find a SDR-5D and there you go... problem solved

Edited by Mutaroc, 11 October 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Mehlan]

Quote

These days, Lights are everywhere it seems. 3 or 4 is practically the norm, having 6 or 7 on a team isn't *that* unusual. So I've converted a lot of my builds to carry at least two Streak launchers plus I've dusted off my Jäger A and equipped it with four of them. Even that build isn't enough to kill or even cripple an attacking Light reliably. While damage sure isn't too shabby (4x5 per full salvo), it's usually all over the place (if you're lucky and your hits actually register). But it seems to deter all but the really good pilots from sticking around for too long, making them run off in search for other targets.

amusingly, some random logging of drops would imply that drops tend to be Assault dominated, not lights or med's. Perhaps we should be complaining the assaults and heavies are to common/frequently used...

[1Sascha]

aniviron, on 11 October 2013 - 05:41 AM, said:

"Jumpjets need more randomness to balance them."
"streaks need less randomness because if you can't control it, it's worthless."

Just want to point out that your second argument perfectly sums up why your first one is bad.

Nope.

SSRMs were nerfed to produce more random results.

If they were true to the source, shouldn't we be able to target specific components? If they were true to any sort of realism we should at least have most of our Streaks go for the CT. After all: It is only the biggest component on any Mech. Seems that Streaks which go out of their way to hit the tiny legs of a Spider should be able to hit an Atlas' torso with consistency, right?

Quote

From sarna:
Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects.

As it is now in the game, the "considerably less variation in damage effects"-part seems to apply more to SRMs than to Streaks.



And again: According to the source, using Jump Jets is a tricky business and can go pretty wrong pretty quickly.. even for a non-rookie-pilot.

So in the game we have Streaks which work (a lot) less than perfect (because of game-balancing issues), but we have Jump Jets which work perfectly all the time.

Why can't both have an element of randomness? And besides: Jump Jets wouldn't have to rely on randomness to make them a bit harder to master. Simply come up with stricter limitations, like making landing from extreme heights more difficult or jumping/landing at 150 kph more difficult. Or, more simply, increase heat-generation from jump jets.

S.

Edited by 1Sascha, 11 October 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[Firenze]

Navid A1, on 11 October 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

yes. but that was before HSR.
before HSR one could easily find the hitbox with a couple of shots... now... impossible to find... the hitbox just freaks out around the target mesh even with near zero jitter.

Honestly I've not found much of a problem to be honest. If your shot doesnt register, dont get annoyed in a match, just re-aim, take the next one. Also DONT aim for the torsos on lights, rip their legs off. Its faster and easier.