58 replies to this topic

[Gallowglas]

http://mwomercs.com/...15380-marauder/

[GalaxyBluestar]

Gallowglas, on 11 October 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...15380-marauder/

adding some more recent discussion on the matter

what to do about the maruader

and just my opinion so take it as you will

GalaxyBluestar, on 08 October 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

DirePhoenix, on 07 October 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

i'm a traditionalist so



even this pathetic stencil of 2 mins making is more Marauder in feel than that remake.



that's the only point to calling a battlemech a Marauder because it's like say... a MARAUDER!

this basic appearance can have any amount of completely different detail stacked on it to make it distinctly MWO but it's this shape or it's not a MARAUDER!

btw **** HG!

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 11 October 2013 - 08:04 PM.

[Tesunie]

Actually, BT was given rights to the mech designs used in robotech by a Japanesse court. However, they are (from my understanding) avoiding it's direct use in artwork.

However, all the mechs from Project Pheonix are also on the Unseen list, so there is still hope for the Maurader for you lovers of the mech.

[tib3r]

Looks good. We can roll with it.

[HugoStiglitz]

Tesunie, on 11 October 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Actually, BT was given rights to the mech designs used in robotech by a Japanesse court. However, they are (from my understanding) avoiding it's direct use in artwork.

However, all the mechs from Project Pheonix are also on the Unseen list, so there is still hope for the Maurader for you lovers of the mech.

Law is funny. Even though a Japanese Court might allow a company to use something based on the artwork created by the Japanese in an anime called Macross (I did no looking into this, just going by what you said and assuming true), Harmony Gold was able to sue for a second time over it since they held a copyright for Robotech in America, even though Robotech and Macross are the exact same thing. This should be double jeopardy, but since they are 2 different copyrights held in 2 different countries, international law becomes stupid. Check the links I put for Russ and Bryan in the OP, they should go to a twitter conversation talking about this very issue.

Also all of the Phoenix Mechs are actually reseen I believe.

Edited by HugoStiglitz, 11 October 2013 - 10:02 PM.

[Karyudo ds]

Tesunie, on 11 October 2013 - 09:14 PM, said:

Actually, BT was given rights to the mech designs used in robotech by a Japanesse court. However, they are (from my understanding) avoiding it's direct use in artwork.

The artwork is all that actually matters, nothing else is really used. You're not referring to the early 2000's case though are you? They only concluded that Bigwest/Studio Nue owned Macross, and not Tatsunoko which was the one selling it in the 80's.

Either way this thread is silly, as silly as the twitter comments they made. Of course they could include a Marauder, it would just have to be an actual original design and not a Glaug. It's certainly possible even though FanPro failed at it.

HugoStiglitz, on 11 October 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Law is funny. Even though a Japanese Court might allow a company to use something based on the artwork created by the Japanese in an anime called Macross (I did no looking into this, just going by what you said and assuming true), Harmony Gold was able to sue for a second time over it since they held a copyright for Robotech in America, even though Robotech and Macross are the exact same thing. This should be double jeopardy, but since they are 2 different copyrights held in 2 different countries, international law becomes ********.

Robotech and Macross are NOT the exact same thing or even close. Harmony Gold bought the ability to use Macross from a company that helped make it (but has no ownership of it...) and added a couple other series together. Theory has it that Harmony Gold has no grounds to sue anyone but you'd have to challenge them to do that and if you won you'd still have nothing.

Fun fact, Macross has been making series since, but not as many Robotech series Harmony Gold has failed to financially get off the ground. Sort of silly.

HugoStiglitz, on 11 October 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

Also all of the Phoenix Mechs are actually reseen I believe.

Yeah legally those are all distinct, thinking he meant we could use that one. Which we could, but it would need some...making of the looking good Battletech artists over the years failed at doing often.

Edited by Karyudo ds, 11 October 2013 - 10:13 PM.

[DirePhoenix]

The only thing Harmony Gold would have to give a stamp of approval on is if the design looked like the Macross design. If it doesn't look like the old licensed material, then they can't say anything.

I would rather have new designs for classic mechs than not having any of those mechs at all, and I've been playing Battletech since 1986. Those designs were great when Battletech didn't have any decent artists/designers of their own. That's not the case any more. We need in-house designs specifically created for this game now. We don't need anyone else's licensed art.

[Nathan Foxbane]

Funny thing about all this. There has not been a reseen Marauder made yet, that I did not like more than the original. Personally I always thought the original looked awful and any and all the reseen were improvements. Really.

[Wu Jen]

Any of the HG Mechs - Wasp, Stinger, WarHammer, LongBow, Marauder etc have to be approved by Harmony Gold. It's part of the settlement made with FASA back in the day.

HG is still litigious, very litigious...http://generalsjoes....usive-jetfire/#

[DirePhoenix]

Wu Jen, on 11 October 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Any of the HG Mechs - Wasp, Stinger, WarHammer, LongBow, Marauder etc have to be approved by Harmony Gold. It's part of the settlement made with FASA back in the day.

HG is still litigious, very litigious...http://generalsjoes....usive-jetfire/#

Ugh Hasbro settled? They could have destroyed HG. Oh well, I guess Hasbro had too much money to be actually bothered by HG. Hopefully the settlement wasn't more than HG's lawyer fees, which they had to take care of themselves.

EDIT: This is what makes law stupid. Battletech can't end HG because "oh no, it's too much money, we shant dare offend HG's ever-staring eyes", but anyone with enough money is like "oh sure, have some money to shut up so I don't have to be bothered smashing you"

Edited by DirePhoenix, 11 October 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Cementblade, on 11 October 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

i have idea lets all raid HG and send them to space then steal the rights the plans cool huh ?

I had no idea Harmony Gold did rental properties in the Beverly Hills and Brentwood areas...may rent my next place from them:

http://www.harmonygoldproperties.com

If anyone in the LA area wants to "make them an offer they can't refuse," you should head over to 7655 Sunset Blvd., Los Angeles, CA 90046.

May even have my next birthday catered at their theater in Hollywood.

Edited by Lyoto Machida, 11 October 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

For gods sake throw a bone to those starving, embittered shareholders/lawyers at HG....

There is MONEY to be made with mechs like Marauder, Warhammer,ect.

It's basically FREE fun for everyone.

[Karyudo ds]

DirePhoenix, on 11 October 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Ugh Hasbro settled? They could have destroyed HG.

You cannot kill that which has no life. Seriously I have no idea how HG as a company still exists after looking at all the Robotech projects they could never get off the ground, I can't imagine them being able to pay a lawyer anything.

Lyoto Machida, on 11 October 2013 - 10:27 PM, said:

I had no idea Harmony Gold did rental properties in the Beverly Hills and Brentwood areas...may rent my next place from them:

Holy...that explains everything. Well... except why those other projects couldn't find some scratch. Not exactly a cheap area.

Edited by Karyudo ds, 11 October 2013 - 10:42 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Karyudo ds, on 11 October 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

You cannot kill that which has no life. Seriously I have no idea how HG as a company still exists after looking at all the Robotech projects they could never get off the ground, I can't imagine them being able to pay a lawyer anything.



Holy...that explains everything. Well... except why those other projects couldn't find some scratch. Not exactly a cheap area.

This is in Van Nuys...not exactly the nicest place in the SFV:



The theater looks alright...the woman on the cell phone adds a touch of class:



I love cargo ship movies:

[Wu Jen]

From wiki:

Quote

Legal issues



Harmony Gold issued cease and desist orders against sites displaying images and trailers from the video game MechWarrior Online.^[2] The company claims that the images portray ’mechs that they own the rights to, according to a legal settlement from 1996.^[3]
In addition, Harmony Gold’s license for Macross came from Tatsunoko Production, but Japanese courts ruled that it was Studio Nue (creators of the series) that controls the Macross intellectual property. The license Tatsunoko was given was for international distribution outside Japan only, and does not allow them to control the intellectual property.^{[citation needed]}
Harmony Gold claims in Federal Court that Hasbro's SDCC 2013 exclusive set "G.I. Joe vs Transformers The Epic Conclusion" violates their copyright license on the animated Japanese Macross TV series (1982-84).^[4]

[MoonUnitBeta]

That 14 hrs would put it around October 11th, 11:30am pst.

[Farix]

I'm wondering if approving any redesign of the Macross based mechs is part of the settlement between FASA and Harmony Gold. This would explain whey FASA didn't redesign and retcon those mechs. It would also explain why the Phoenix Project "redesigns" were entirely new mechs and not new images for the old ones. Normally, Harmony Gold shouldn't have any say over a redesign, but apparently, their approval is required.

[Farix]

Wu Jen, on 11 October 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

Any of the HG Mechs - Wasp, Stinger, WarHammer, LongBow, Marauder etc have to be approved by Harmony Gold. It's part of the settlement made with FASA back in the day.

HG is still litigious, very litigious...http://generalsjoes....usive-jetfire/#

No word on the terms of the agreement. But HG could have very well backed down after the Hasbro's lawyers made it clear that HG could lose the IP altogether if the suite continued.

[Zerberus]

LauLiao, on 11 October 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

If they make it look like a timber wolf without the missle racks then it's just gonna look like a marauder without the top-mounted AC/5 which would still be problematic. Otherwise, why not just use a different Canon 75-tonner with twin PPCs instead of "inventing" a whole new design?

Now that you mention it, this could actually be an issue with the mad cat if somebody decided to not mount missiles and the dynamic weapons display lopped off the ears as a result....

[DirePhoenix]

Farix, on 12 October 2013 - 04:28 AM, said:

No word on the terms of the agreement. But HG could have very well backed down after the Hasbro's lawyers made it clear that HG could lose the IP altogether if the suite continued.

One of the stipulations of the agreement was that they can't discuss the details of their agreement beyond that FASA wasn't going to use those licensed images. However, if they can't discuss those details, then they can't tell anyone else that something is or isn't part of the agreement that they can't discuss, so...


(so how can you enforce parts of an agreement that you can't discuss with people that weren't part of the agreement? You can't.)


...so if someone else makes new images of a "Marauder" that isn't copying art already licensed by someone else or used for something else, no one can stop them from using them.

Edited by DirePhoenix, 12 October 2013 - 09:21 AM.