20 replies to this topic

[Vreith]

Easy way to fix balistic's (as so many of them in every match and jager mechs) it's evident there seen as the bee's knees, as it is usaully how much ammo you can carry with what you can load while managing what little heat you will produce with waht speed/engine you can mount, i say decrease how much each Ton of ammo carry's (%10? rounded down) see what happens, some people may be more hesitant loading up double AC/20's in all there jager variants etc if it means 10 rounds less in a match and more often they run out of ammo than before, or better yet makes them less liberal with the ammo and there fore won't just spam at everything that pokes its head out.

i have no qualms where the Damage/heat/modes of Ballistics currently are, i think the only thing to bring them into line is how much you can carry per ton ammo

Edited by Vreith, 11 October 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[FupDup]

Will probably just lead to more ballistic boating and fewer mixed loadouts, because they won't have enough tonnage for backup weapons (see also: LRMs).


The problem is the heat system that nerfs the effectiveness of energy weapons, particularly the larger ones. We need fast cooling and low capacity, whereas right now we've got turtle-slow cooling and high capacity. This means that you get to fire off a few alpha strikes in a row, and then have to take a time out while you cool down before firing again. My proposed system would let lasers be fired in quick succession much more easily and let you stay in the battle for prolonged periods.

Edited by FupDup, 12 October 2013 - 04:38 PM.

[SecondReversal]

You know what I say? I say that Ballistic Weapons weren't a problem three weeks ago. They weren't a problem three weeks before that, or three weeks before that either. There are twelve solid months of threads stating how incredibly inferior DPS weapons are to front-load systems like the Gauss Rifle and ERPPC

One wonders why, scant weeks after PPCs and Gauss came down from the top of the mountain and after the UAC5 rate of fire was standardized, everybody has suddenly become completely incapable of dealing with an AC8 Jagermech or a Dakkaphract.

Give it a rest - I am sick and tired of the constant cycle of degrading weapons to uselessness every single week.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Ban macro boats and I will be fine with it. Guys who run macros and inferior pilots anyways.

[xCico]

I more like autocannons boats than Gauss+2/3PPC, but jagers are like paper damn, I think we should leave that and focus on Spiders with armor of atlas!

[Vreith]

SecondReversal, on 11 October 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

You know what I say? I say that Ballistic Weapons weren't a problem three weeks ago. They weren't a problem three weeks before that, or three weeks before that either. There are twelve solid months of threads stating how incredibly inferior DPS weapons are to front-load systems like the Gauss Rifle and ERPPC

One wonders why, scant weeks after PPCs and Gauss came down from the top of the mountain and after the UAC5 rate of fire was standardized, everybody has suddenly become completely incapable of dealing with an AC8 Jagermech or a Dakkaphract.

Give it a rest - I am sick and tired of the constant cycle of degrading weapons to uselessness every single week.

would you look at that that someone else who's a founder and lurks more than posts

true to a degree, but this is a MMO, and all this balancing stuff happens but i think with changes to toaster popping viability and Guass charge etc has semi resolved those issues. but because thats being resolved and now top mountain mass other ballistics doesn't mean there not now the bee's knees for damage/RoF/heat... and without limiting ammo how can they be brought into line? as i state i think there damage/RoF/heat is fine, ammo amounts are the fix. sure this can mean some stupid builds, but that's the users conscience decision if so.

as for FupDup's reply, true laser need more work,

[OneEyed Jack]

Mudhutwarrior, on 11 October 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Ban macro boats and I will be fine with it. Guys who run macros and inferior pilots anyways.

Get a clue. UAC macros are usable, but useless, because it just makes them into worse AC5s. AC2 macros just set of ghost heat, now, so they're worse than useless.

Vreith, on 11 October 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

and without limiting ammo how can they be brought into line?

Into what line? The useless, marshmallow gun line? Should we just remove all damage from weapons and just have them spam mean words at each other? How much nerf is enough for you freaking crybabies?

[Biglead]

I thought your suggested fix was going to be "Kill them", I was all stoked to be like "Yeah!". Then I read your post about lowering the ammo per ton and was like "Aww, he's just stupid and a bad player :/".

[Arrogusss]

I think this post needs to be moved to the "Complain, Bit$#%, and Whine" section of the forums.
Actually.... as a matter of fact there SHOULD be a section simply called NERF.
Posts like this were rampant during the ppc/gauss whining and complaining... and that got us a wacky gauss mechanism and 1.5 seconds added to the cooldown, and ERPPC's that are completely absent from the game; replaced now by the er LL.

SO let me get this straight. When I run my ballistic Jagers I don't even equip 1 medium laser as backup, cause I am a purist.
Not the smartest move, but that 1 extra ton of ammo matters...and you wanna come on here and NERF THAT?

Hate this or Hate that. I HATE spider hitboxes, 60 lrm boat stk that spam over and over and over, erppc heat, new gauss, etc......... but I usually don't come on the forums to whine about it because I have seen what that gets us in mwo.
OP Please let me know your favorite loadout, just to see if I have any distaste for any of it or if I think it is OP in any way... that way I can create numerous posts here about it until they make it unuseable for you and everyone else. AWESOME.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

ACs are ok, devs need to focus on pulse lasers and missile hit registration. No moar nerfs/buffs before hitreg fix plz.

[Alistair Winter]

Actually, I think the solution is quite simple.

Nerf. The N-word in the MWO forum.

Don't introduce ghost heat.
Don't increase recoil cockpit shake.
Don't introduce some kind of exponential jamming rate.

When MGs were too ineffective, PGI increased their crit chance.
When flamers were too ineffective, PGI increased their range.
When gauss rifles were too effective, PGI made them explode.
When PPC+Gauss combo was too powerful, PGI increased jump jet cockpit shake.

Just deal with the source of the problem and stop trying all kinds of convoluted solutions. Want to make the AC2 more widely used? Buff the core stats (range, heat, damage). Want to make the UAC5 less widely used? Nerf the core stats.

[Captain Stiffy]

AC/2 just doesn't do enough damage. You can go totally crazy karate bananas on someone with 4xAC2 and still not kill them half the time.

[-Natural Selection-]

Mudhutwarrior, on 11 October 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Ban macro boats and I will be fine with it. Guys who run macros and inferior pilots anyways.

The fire rate with macro is no faster than the normal firing rate (it cant be!) The timing is the timing. The only thing you get is slightly more cockpit shake, which is nothing compared to a lrm5x5 or x6. So why don't you ask to ban people using the lrm build which you only have to chainfire?

[Coralld]

IV Amen, on 11 October 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

ACs are ok, devs need to focus on pulse lasers and missile hit registration. No moar nerfs/buffs before hitreg fix plz.

That and possibly return all Pulse Lasers as well as Small and Medium Lasers back to TT heat levels as they would be producing less heat. The reason why I am not including Large Laser and its ER counterpart is because they are already doing more damage as well as having less heat then their TT versions.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The reason we keep going in this cycle is because the problem in the end is ALWAYS going to be instant pinpoint damage.

The second issue, which is an issue because of instant pinpoint damage is the hardpoint system.

When one weapon gets nerfed, people move to the next best weapon and load up as many of them as possible.

Mechs are supposed to soak a ton of damage, due to terrible targeting computers, which is why we have a component system instead of just a hitpoint bar.

Right now our mechs act more like a Sniper Rifle, when they should act like a Musket.

No matter what maps, engine upgrades, new mechs, crazy weapon mechanics PGI institutes, as long as we have instant pinpoint damage this game is fundamentally broken.

[Karl Streiger]

Well I have seen that boating a specified weapon group like LRMs or smaller caliber AC result in a bad habit:
Some seem to think (oh i have another shot - so they don't aim accurate enough - just line up the enemy and hit fire:

They don't even analyse their target: so there a shots wasted were the enemy can fight back: I have seen a Jager pumping a ton of ammunition into a Stalker....a ton = 150 dmg....and this Stalker was seroiusly damaged: one side torso was internal orange, same with a leg and the yellow the other torso....so instead of firing just 12 shots and neutralise the target - this player wasted ammo - and he allowed his enemy to shoot back.....

I really hope that some people learn to realize that boating may be competive - but you have to adapt with every nerf or buff and each time the forum will be full of QQ

[Bagheera]

This thread is stupid.

Any Jager boating 24+ tons (28 in the case of them using dual 20s) of gun is likely running an XL engine. Shoot it in the side torso until dead.

It's not difficult, and doesn't take long.

Edited by Bagheera, 12 October 2013 - 08:06 AM.

[Lightfoot]

PGI just over-nerfed Energy, those Jagers were always there. Always.

Asking for more nerfs is a bad idea. MWO needs Buffs, not nerfs, because it already barely resembles MechWarrior from too many heavy nerfs.

As a general rule of thumb you should never have to nerf Inner Sphere anything because the Clans have the actual dangerous mechs and loadouts. They will just end up nerfing Clan tech untill it looks and works like Inner Sphere tech at which point your foot falls off from too many self-inflicted nerfs and the Clans get cancelled.

I don't see how MWO will ever get to the Clans with the current direction of 'nerfs solve everything' balancing.

[Mystere]

Mudhutwarrior, on 11 October 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Ban macro boats and I will be fine with it. Guys who run macros and inferior pilots anyways.

Here you are again with your anti-macro crusade.

Vreith, on 11 October 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Easy way to fix balistic's (as so many of them in every match and jager mechs) it's evident there seen as the bee's knees, as it is usaully how much ammo you can carry with what you can load ...

Making ballistic-based opponents waste ammo seem to work. One way of doing that is to take advantage of the extra protection provided by the edges of cover -- that invisible protective wall that extends beyond edges.

Edited by Mystere, 12 October 2013 - 09:13 AM.

[PawPaWuFF]

friend of mine suggested recoil+smoke to the shooter not just the reciever