82 replies to this topic

[SmallPaws]

Currently the dual AC20 heat and ammo is the only balancing mechanic of this build. This is a minor downside to being able to have pinpoint accuracy at a sizable effective range of 240m. This creates an opportunity for a new ambush build like the A1 SplatCat all over again. I'd suggest that shots from this build have a high inaccuracy when fired together similar to how jump jet and PPC's were nerfed in the same way with screen shake.

[Caboose30]

I think they should take the MW3 approach. Instead of firing a single round, have it fire a stream of smaller shells.

[No Guts No Glory]

Don't forget, MW3 also had some mad recoil all throughout that stream of shells.

[Bhael Fire]

I think people need to stop crying about weapons balance now. There are more important gamebreaking things to complain about, like MM not working properly and HSR still being sketchy.

As for dual AC/20 builds, I don't really get any more kills with mine than any of my other mechs.

The AC/20 is balanced just fine.

[No Guts No Glory]

Bhael Fire, on 13 October 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

HSR still being sketchy.

like HSR punishing people with good pings? lol

[Imperius]

Dude if anything the AC/20 build should have no ghost heat! It's a gimped build it has no range and dies really easy XL engine. That's the balance. The ghost heat is just punishemet for role warfare.

[No Guts No Glory]

Imperius, on 13 October 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Dude if anything the AC/20 build should have no ghost heat! It's a gimped build it has no range and dies really easy XL engine. That's the balance. The ghost heat is just punishemet for role warfare.

It shoots out to 800 meters. Plenty of range. Unlike the K2 it gets decent speed and agility. While I think ghost heat is bollocks, it's need to balance out the 40 points of pinpoint damage it would spit out otherwise.

[CheeseThief]

If I could see anything happen to AC20's, I'd like to see their max range dropped from 3x to 2x their optimum.

AC20's doing AC10 damage at the AC10's optimum range isn't a good thing for balancing.

[Silentium]

I don't want to invite any more gun breaking like we saw with the PPCs. Hell, you can't even fire two of those at the same time without overheating it seems.

I understand, getting smoked by an ac/40 stinks, but I don't want to see anymore hackneyed balancing efforts either.

[James Montana]

I've posted a few times on this... As a former auto cannon gunner... ... the damn auto cannon should be a rapid fire weapon. They've taken the auto loader route on this one, and it just complicates things.

[CrashieJ]

Imperius, on 13 October 2013 - 04:18 PM, said:

Dude if anything the AC/20 build should have no ghost heat! It's a gimped build it has no range and dies really easy XL engine. That's the balance. The ghost heat is just punishemet for role warfare.

I use an STD engine on mine, it's funny as they lop of my side torso, stop to see if I keel over, then freak out as they try to core me

[Imperius]

gavilatius, on 13 October 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

I use an STD engine on mine, it's funny as they lop of my side torso, stop to see if I keel over, then freak out as they try to core me

Then you must be real slow lacking ammo still balanced at that point.

[FupDup]

[Imperius]

No Guts No Glory, on 13 October 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

It shoots out to 800 meters. Plenty of range. Unlike the K2 it gets decent speed and agility. While I think ghost heat is bollocks, it's need to balance out the 40 points of pinpoint damage it would spit out otherwise.

After 240 meters it has DMG drop off. It doesn't do 40DMG at 800. It may only do 0-1.

[Storm Khan]

JuiceCaboose, on 13 October 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

I think they should take the MW3 approach. Instead of firing a single round, have it fire a stream of smaller shells.

James Montana, on 13 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

I've posted a few times on this... As a former auto cannon gunner... ... the damn auto cannon should be a rapid fire weapon. They've taken the auto loader route on this one, and it just complicates things.

I can't find the previous post I did on this but I agree that AC's should be firing a stream of shells.
In that post I suggested that:

AC2: fires 1 x 2 dmg pt round
AC5: fires 1 x 5 dmg pt round
UAC5: as per AC5 bit with Ultra behaviour
AC10: fires 5 x 2 dmg pt rounds or 2 x 5 dmg pt rounds
AC2: fires 4 x 5 dmg pt rounds

That should pretty much eliminate the 40 pt pinpoint alpha, kill in one shot mechanism and give AC gunners a bit more dakka dakka sound and graphics effects at the same time.

[Adiuvo]

CheeseThief, on 13 October 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

If I could see anything happen to AC20's, I'd like to see their max range dropped from 3x to 2x their optimum.

AC20's doing AC10 damage at the AC10's optimum range isn't a good thing for balancing.

The AC20 DPS at that range is much less than the AC10.

Anyway the only mechs that can run an AC40 build either use XLs with massive side torsos or are terribly slow. If an assault comes out that can use it then there'll be a problem, but until then they aren't a balance issue.

Edited by Adiuvo, 13 October 2013 - 08:22 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Yep, let's use all kinds of crazy mechanics to balance the AC20, instead of, you know, just decreasing damage.

"Oh no, because in TT, the AC20 could glass entire cities and extinguish stars!"

Well, if you want a balanced game, forget about TT a little bit and adjust the core stats (range, heat, damage, reload time) to the point where you could introduce an assault mech with 3 AC20s and not be worried about if it was OP.

If you want to follow PGIs current approach, with ghost heat and all kinds of crazy counters, then sure. Make the screen shake from recoil before you actually fire the shot, making it harder to aim and breaking all the laws of physics. And give the AC20 a 5% chance to spawn a Yeti every time you fire, and let the Yeti do 5-10 damage to your leg.

[Lykaon]

No Guts No Glory, on 13 October 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

It shoots out to 800 meters. Plenty of range. Unlike the K2 it gets decent speed and agility. While I think ghost heat is bollocks, it's need to balance out the 40 points of pinpoint damage it would spit out otherwise.

Hardpoint size limits would have solved this problem.If a mech couldn't fit two then prestofixo no dual AC20 problems.

Or if a small handfull of mechs could,say a Jaeger DD (or whatever Jaeger variant) had 2 of it's 6 ballistic hardpoints sized to hold AC20s then this specific mech would be the only heavy mech with twin 20 capacity and could then be balanced in other ways.For example this specific variant could have slow or poor torso twist or limited arm elevation maybe a smaller engine cap than other variants. The specific mech can be addressed rather than the weapon that may not be in need of nerfing when not boated.

Hardpoint size restrictions need not be so restrictive that bearly any custom loadout fits it just needs to be just restrictive enough to limit the alpha boating to specific chassis that then as a chassis get a balance pass with quirks and engine size limits.

[Lykaon]

Alistair Winter, on 13 October 2013 - 08:19 PM, said:

Yep, let's use all kinds of crazy mechanics to balance the AC20, instead of, you know, just decreasing damage.

"Oh no, because in TT, the AC20 could glass entire cities and extinguish stars!"

Well, if you want a balanced game, forget about TT a little bit and adjust the core stats (range, heat, damage, reload time) to the point where you could introduce an assault mech with 3 AC20s and not be worried about if it was OP.

If you want to follow PGIs current approach, with ghost heat and all kinds of crazy counters, then sure. Make the screen shake from recoil before you actually fire the shot, making it harder to aim and breaking all the laws of physics. And give the AC20 a 5% chance to spawn a Yeti every time you fire, and let the Yeti do 5-10 damage to your leg.

Because one AC 20 is not a problem it is 2 AC20s that people are looking at.

Reducing AC20 damage effects builds that are not specificly meant to be target by a fix. Any significant reduction in damage to reduce AC20 boating would greatly reduce a mech that used one.

[TheAtomiser]

Bhael Fire, on 13 October 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

I think people need to stop crying about weapons balance now. There are more important gamebreaking things to complain about, like MM not working properly and HSR still being sketchy.

As for dual AC/20 builds, I don't really get any more kills with mine than any of my other mechs.

The AC/20 is balanced just fine.

This. AC40 yager is totally opportunistic and only works well in a brawl against slow meds, heavies and assauts. It requires a very particular playstyle that often means waiting a long time for the enemy to close in while avoiding long range fire. Bring it along to any of the bigger maps and you're almost guaranteed to not have much fun.