15 replies to this topic

[CrashieJ]

what do AC20 Jagers, LRM boats, and mechs that stack ammunition based weaponshave in common?

you guessed it, ammunition.

most of these rounds play out 15 minutes in length with people running around the first couple of minutes, smacking around people with their heavies weapons and then ROFLSTOMPING the team before the timer drops to 10.

only to pack up and do it again.
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there has to be a game mode where fights last from 5-10 minutes segmented into multiple rounds (like 3?).

NO REARM, 10% field repair, BEST 2 out of 3 rounds.

ammunition based weapons are supposed to be limited by ammunition, Energy Weapons are supposed to be exempt.

there is a reason why lasers are called "the workhorse of the Inner Sphere" and not anything else.
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PS: I use AC20 Jagers.

[Sandpit]

I would agree a bit more IF the heat tables were more in line with this. That was the trade off between energy and ballisti weapons. PPC and AC10 do same damage but you sacrifice weght and slots to take an AC10 where you sacrifice heat management for a PPC. The current system doesn't work like that. I agree though, I'd like to see some changes that would reward players who don't much out their mechs and go with the spirit of Btech. In tabletop games you have a game master who regulates and ensures even matches. Here we have the game code, mission types, and ghost heat. Anything that would push more diversity in mechs fielded would be great in my opinion. I love tinkering with mechs just as much as the next guy but I miss the challenge of using a stock mech and relying more on your skill and intelligence on how to use your mech than coming up with the most optimized build

[Imperius]

Ghost Heat killed the point of ballistics. Since energy weapons are now a better choice (unlimited ammo), guess we should give unlimited ammo to ballistics and go the way of arcade. Ghost heat is a lazy balance mechanic for weapons and if it's used on ballistics then ammo shouldn't be an issue. Have a nice day! Flame suit on.

[Tincan Nightmare]

I hope something like this exists for CW (whenever that is). Maybe something along the lines that you 'deploy' your mech to a campaign to conquer a planet, but can't change its build once selected. Maybe have repair and rearming based on how the campaigns going, so mechs that are reliant on ammo based weapons might suffer in the long term as ammo is scarce, making more players bring more varied builds.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Imperius, on 13 October 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Ghost Heat killed the point of ballistics. Since energy weapons are now a better choice (unlimited ammo), guess we should give unlimited ammo to ballistics and go the way of arcade. Ghost heat is a lazy balance mechanic for weapons and if it's used on ballistics then ammo shouldn't be an issue. Have a nice day! Flame suit on.

Actually, Ghost Heat over emphasized the advantage of ballistics (low heat generation), making ballistics the go to weapon currently. Carry a heavy load of energy weapons, and you shutdown after a few volleys, but if you bring lots of AC's you can fire all day until the ammo runs out. The only ballistic weapons really affected by Ghost Heat are dual AC20's and the AC2's. Ghost Heat doesn't really apply to the rest, and many mechs bring single AC20's anyway (save the occasional K2 or Jager). It definitely is a lazy balance mechanic, but one that benefits ballistics.

[Sephlock]

More energy boats! Brilliant!

[Deathlike]

I build too many pro-energy loadouts. You're tickling my fancy.

[Kiiyor]

Imperius, on 13 October 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Ghost Heat killed the point of ballistics. Since energy weapons are now a better choice (unlimited ammo), guess we should give unlimited ammo to ballistics and go the way of arcade. Ghost heat is a lazy balance mechanic for weapons and if it's used on ballistics then ammo shouldn't be an issue. Have a nice day! Flame suit on.

Have I somehow slipped into a parallel MWO dimension? I thought ballistics were reigning supreme at the moment.

All I have is personal experience to go on, but it's hard to work up a sweat over an energy boat when the pilot needs to consult their hastily written footnotes on advanced calculus before they can plot a firing solution, when I can round a corner and fall under the crosshairs of a Phract or Yager swilling their way towards me, bloated with Dakka, crosshairs full of the promise of a good ol' fashioned impromptu limb-shearing...

I suddenly have an urge to roll in my Yager.

[KharnZor]

Imperius, on 13 October 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Ghost Heat killed the point of ballistics. Since energy weapons are now a better choice (unlimited ammo), guess we should give unlimited ammo to ballistics and go the way of arcade. Ghost heat is a lazy balance mechanic for weapons and if it's used on ballistics then ammo shouldn't be an issue. Have a nice day! Flame suit on.

Did you enjoy the can of stupid you had before this post?

[Marmon Rzohr]

Imperius, on 13 October 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Ghost Heat killed the point of ballistics. Since energy weapons are now a better choice (unlimited ammo), guess we should give unlimited ammo to ballistics and go the way of arcade. Ghost heat is a lazy balance mechanic for weapons and if it's used on ballistics then ammo shouldn't be an issue. Have a nice day! Flame suit on.

Wait till you get UACheesed xD
It should influence your opinion on energy/ballistics balance

When it comes to high perfomance builds ballistic weapons are essential. Gauss, UAC or AC20, there are very few serious builds that don't run one of these. (in the heavy and assault class OFC)

Also, you must have noticed that energy boats (apart from the occasional LL stacking Stalker or Hunch 4P) are gone with the wind.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

it just seems to me that this is CT warrior online. doesnt matter what people do, ghost heat, changine ppc travel time. nothing will change it. there is no incintive in this game to actually peice your enemies appart because IF YOU try to then they will just shoot your CT. thus even tho the quick kill gives less exp and cbills it is still far and large preferable because the ct just isnt strong enough.

thats my opinion all CT should have 2x armor values because honestly im just #$(&*#& tired of watching match after match of pinpoint CT warrior. there is no game in that there is no balance, no stock mech can fight that #(*$#(.

or straight up double armor values across the board im so sick and tired of watchin 3 or more ac 20 jags just stand together and pop ****.

Edited by Mellifluer, 14 October 2013 - 08:23 AM.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Tincan Nightmare, on 13 October 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Actually, Ghost Heat over emphasized the advantage of ballistics (low heat generation), making ballistics the go to weapon currently. Carry a heavy load of energy weapons, and you shutdown after a few volleys, but if you bring lots of AC's you can fire all day until the ammo runs out. The only ballistic weapons really affected by Ghost Heat are dual AC20's and the AC2's. Ghost Heat doesn't really apply to the rest, and many mechs bring single AC20's anyway (save the occasional K2 or Jager). It definitely is a lazy balance mechanic, but one that benefits ballistics.

i agree 100% ghost heat mostly just made AC's king, the ac2 nerf made it so everyone has to boat ac5's or larger, which = nothing but swinging a giant hammer. anyone remember waht it took in TT to break an atlas in 1 combat turn? you better have half your #($&(#& $( team blasting him. in MWO an altas hits the ground like bam instant. its BS the atlas should take some (#*$(#$ damage.

[Sandpit]

Mellifluer, on 14 October 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

i agree 100% ghost heat mostly just made AC's king, the ac2 nerf made it so everyone has to boat ac5's or larger, which = nothing but swinging a giant hammer. anyone remember waht it took in TT to break an atlas in 1 combat turn? you better have half your #($&(#& $( team blasting him. in MWO an altas hits the ground like bam instant. its BS the atlas should take some (#*$(#$ damage.

In TT it was completely random on whether you even hit a target though. You could fire your entire team's weapon on one mech and only hit once. Here not so much. That's the real issue. Better pilots are always going to do better than poor pilots. I don't roll a die and hope to randomly get the number I need to hit an enemy. Here I put my crosshair on a mech and pull the trigger.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Sandpit, on 14 October 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

In TT it was completely random on whether you even hit a target though. You could fire your entire team's weapon on one mech and only hit once. Here not so much. That's the real issue. Better pilots are always going to do better than poor pilots. I don't roll a die and hope to randomly get the number I need to hit an enemy. Here I put my crosshair on a mech and pull the trigger.

Random rolls FTW

Mellifluer, on 14 October 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

it just seems to me that this is CT warrior online. doesnt matter what people do, ghost heat, changine ppc travel time. nothing will change it. there is no incintive in this game to actually peice your enemies appart because IF YOU try to then they will just shoot your CT. thus even tho the quick kill gives less exp and cbills it is still far and large preferable because the ct just isnt strong enough.

thats my opinion all CT should have 2x armor values because honestly im just #$(&*#& tired of watching match after match of pinpoint CT warrior. there is no game in that there is no balance, no stock mech can fight that #(*$#(.

or straight up double armor values across the board im so sick and tired of watchin 3 or more ac 20 jags just stand together and pop ****.

I agree to an extent, but it's not really like that.
I target the enemy's weak point. When fighting lights you shoot their legs, the same with zombie centurions. You aim for a Wang's AC20 arm. You you shoot a highlander right torso that along with the right arm hold all or most of the weapons. Same with an Atlas' ballistic hardpoint. You go for the STs agains mechs you know are running XLs, the back armor when you're a light or medium.

There's quite a bit of tactical flexibility (although not so much if you mosly play the assault class) when it comes to target selection.

If I may be so bold, I'd suggest switching to a different weight class or chassis if you find the game frustrating or repetitive. I know a round in a Jenner makes me smile after 5 rounds in a heavy

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Marmon Rzohr, on 14 October 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Random rolls FTW


I agree to an extent, but it's not really like that.
I target the enemy's weak point. When fighting lights you shoot their legs, the same with zombie centurions. You aim for a Wang's AC20 arm. You you shoot a highlander right torso that along with the right arm hold all or most of the weapons. Same with an Atlas' ballistic hardpoint. You go for the STs agains mechs you know are running XLs, the back armor when you're a light or medium.

There's quite a bit of tactical flexibility (although not so much if you mosly play the assault class) when it comes to target selection.

If I may be so bold, I'd suggest switching to a different weight class or chassis if you find the game frustrating or repetitive. I know a round in a Jenner makes me smile after 5 rounds in a heavy

i will admit i have far more heavies and assaults then med/lights......
16 assaults...... 4 atlas, 4 highlanders, 3 stalkers, 3 victors, 2 awesomes
11 heavies...... 1 orion , 2 cataphracts, 3 dragons, 4 catapults, 1 jag,
7 mediums....... 3 trebuchet, 1 kintaro, 2 cicadas, 1 centi (yen low )
6 lights....... 3 spiders, 2 commando, 1 raven

40 mechs....mostly pounders.....
personally love the spider (hate getting clipped on terrain), the one spider....... is taking up a mech slot, idk how much longer i can justify it over the other 2 now that they are master and i still cant find real "troll" spots to get to with 12JJ and a ERLL to be that evil spotter that actually is beyond your reach .

but that should tell you something about this game too, i try to collect mechs for various reasons, be it a specific utility or unique loadout.....still by far and large... i have to use assaults/heavies to make a real impact in a battle.

i want more weapons, the ones we have are really to little variety and i dont think we can find balance without enough "options" that the ppc has something that both complements and counters it, same with ac40's and the rest.

[Gremlich Johns]

You guys are crazy, I have two lights (Founder's and Sarah's jenner), 4 mediums (3xHBK and one CNT-A), one heavy (Founder's catapult) and one assault (Founder's Atlas). I have only ever had these mechs. I still have my Founder's MC, all of it. I've bought no camo because it isn't CW yet.