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Anti-Cheat System: The Need And A Design Of


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Poll: About anti-cheating systems and cheaters (votes are not public) (65 member(s) have cast votes)

Have you seen cheaters in MWO recently?

  1. Yep (12 votes [18.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.46%

  2. Nope (31 votes [47.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 47.69%

  3. May be - not sure if they were cheaters or not (22 votes [33.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 33.85%

  4. Other (comment) (0 votes [0.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 0.00%

Do you think we need anti-cheat systems in MWO?

  1. Yep (27 votes [41.54%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.54%

  2. Nope (18 votes [27.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.69%

  3. May be (13 votes [20.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.00%

  4. Dunno (5 votes [7.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 7.69%

  5. Other (comment) (2 votes [3.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.08%

Do you hate cheaters, in general?

  1. A LOT!!! (42 votes [53.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 53.85%

  2. Yeah, i guess i hate 'em a bit (14 votes [17.95%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.95%

  3. Nope. To hate someone because of a game - is a silly thing to do (10 votes [12.82%])

    Percentage of vote: 12.82%

  4. Nope. I couldn't care less if they cheat or not (5 votes [6.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.41%

  5. Dunno (3 votes [3.85%])

    Percentage of vote: 3.85%

  6. Other (comment) (4 votes [5.13%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.13%

Do you like what 1st post proposes?

  1. Yep, it's good (12 votes [18.46%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.46%

  2. Nope, i don't like it (15 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  3. Some parts i like, other parts i don't like (15 votes [23.08%])

    Percentage of vote: 23.08%

  4. I am not going to read that text wall, dude (19 votes [29.23%])

    Percentage of vote: 29.23%

  5. Other (comment) (4 votes [6.15%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.15%

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#1 FinsT

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:36 AM

Suggesting feature: an anti-cheat system for MWO.

Contents.

Part 1: Few elements of a possible anti-cheat system: concepts
1.1 By players for players: "cheater!" button (initial filtering)
1.2 Confirming a cheater
1.3 Punishments for cheating

Part 2: a few notes and my personal testimony establishing (for me, at least) obvious need of more/better anti-cheat systems (more and/or better than there currently are, if any)



=================================================
Part 1: Few elements of a possible anti-cheat system: concepts

________________________________________________
1.1 - By players for players: "cheater!" button (initial filtering)
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The button which would read "Cheater!" or something similar ("I think this is a cheater", "This guy is cheating!", etc) - is to be made available for players in spectator mode.
- why: because PGI does not have enough people to spectate all the players regularly, nor should it have.
- effect: whenever this button would be pressed by a spectating player, spectated player would have +1 to his account's "suspected cheater score". The score should be kept invisible to the owner of the account, as well as invisible to any other players. The score will be used by automated systems and possibly PGI specialist(s) to confirm or postpone an actual judgement.

To prevent abuse of the button, the following (and possibly other) restrictions are to be implemented to the "cheater!" button function:
- the button can not be used on a same player more than once per account per month. It's best if the button would still be displayed for "already reported" players, - but would be inactive, with the button's name changed to "Reported!" or something similar. Once a month passes, same spectating player can press the button while spectating same suspected cheater once again;
- the button can not be used by any account which still has its "Cadet" bonus present;
- the button can not be used by player A, if spectated player B - is currently a member of player A's group, Merc Unit or pre-made company (because this button is not intended to be a tool for internal punishment or sabotage in any case);
- the button can not be used more than "Lvl / X" times (rounded up to integer) per 24 hours, where "Lvl" - is spectating player's level (assuming this will be implemented quite soon, as promised), and "X" - is such a number that players who have maximum possible level would have 12 uses of "cheater!" button per 24 hours. This restriction prevents people from labeling all people they meet as cheaters (some folks are just straaange, yep), and it also grants more power to label players as cheaters to more experienced pilots, improving overall reliability of the cheater score. Should a player reach maximum allowed uses per 24 hours, it would be best if the button would turn inactive, and the name of the button would change to "Max uses per day: Y (level based)" - where Y = "Lvl / X".

Notes about "cheater!" button:
- since it is only possible to spectate members of one's own team (for its own reasons) - there is no possibility that players will "punish" any enemy with the use of this button;
- the button provides an occupation for any player who were "killed" in the current game, but for some reason desires to wait for current game to end (and not to quit it and start another with a different mech). Some of such reasons - are: the desire to start next game with friends (who might still be "alive" in the current game), the desire to play the same mech in the next game, the desire to observe other players and learn from their gameplay. Great many players spectate because of those and other reasons; thus they are already automatically able to see at least some forms of cheating, and many among them would gladly use "cheater!" button should such a button be present and easily spottable while spectating someone, imho.

____________________
1.2 Confirming a cheater
--------------------------------

The "cheater score", mentioned in 1.1, would in time accumulate. No player, however, may be named a cheater based on this score alone: because, obviously, exceptionally skilled and able players will inevitably have many novice and/or silly pilots suspecting them in cheating. This happens in pretty much every large shooter multiplayer game in existance.

In my opinion, PGI specialist's judgement upon spectating the player and/or observing the player's stats - is a required action to ensure that nobody could be punished while not being guilty of cheating. However, much of this can (and possibly should) be automated by some relatively simple features:

1.2.1 [PGI] in-game accounts can be given an "observe suspicious player" button:
- which would allow the owner of the account to join a match (possibly one already in progress) as an invisible spectator, and automatically put the owner of the account to spectating the player who has high cheater score. It would be best if the player's stats would also be displayed for [PGI] observer, right in the game.
- while spectating such a player, [PGI] account owner can be given two more buttons (both optional; [PGI] account owner may choose not to press any of the two, if it's what he wants):
- - 1st one says "Cheater indeed!" (or something similar, like "PGI: confirming cheating", etc), and if pressed, then spectated account's "PGI: cheating score" would be increased by 1 (note, this is a separate score from basic cheater score);
- - and the other saying "Postpone judgement" (or something similar like "Seems normal", etc), and if pressed, it would not increase "PGI: cheating score" of the spectated account, but would simply mark spectated account as "recently observed". This button can be pressed if [PGI] account owner does not see anything suspicious AND does not want to spectate the player again in near future.
- The "observe suspicious player" button would automatically select only players which high cheater score who were not "judged" recently - 2 weeks may be? "Judged" here means both deemed as a cheater and deemed as a seemingly normal non-cheating player (by one of two buttons described just above).

1.2.2 A "chart" of current "leaders" in cheater-scores - could be presented to [PGI] accounts on the website (or elsewhere). It possibly should have:
- easily sortable by "cheater score" and "PGI cheater score" columns,
- marks for players who were already estimated recently by the [PGI] account owner (ideally, with a date of last visit to such players' pages also displayed for the [PGI] acocunt owner). Marking estimations done by other [PGI] account owners, - is not needed (because their judgements, if any, would already be reflected by "PGI cheater score" of players in question);
- a "Cheater indeed!" button next to each account name (or something similar, like "PGI: confirming cheating", etc), - if pressed, then the account's "PGI: cheating score" would be increased by 1 (note, this is a separate score from basic cheater score).
Such a chart would especially be needed if it's not possible to see the player's stats in the game - but also otherwise, just to a lesser extent.

"PGI cheater score" would be the main method of confirming whether a person actually cheats or not, assuming PGI specialists who will do track cheaters, - know the game and have good judgement. A score of 3 or higher is, i guess, what would be needed to "mark" the player as a "cheater" - this is additional protection against mistakes, and also still grants a chance of redemption for people who tried to cheat for a while, but then decided to stop cheating and play fair.

A player may at some point stop to be a cheater. In fact, many thousands of players try some or other cheats at some point (if not majority of players, even), - yet many of such players end up being good, fair, competitive players of the game. Therefore there much be a mechanism which, with time, would "forget" the "sins" of a player. Not too fast, of course, but not too slow either. For scores, typically, a regular % decay is the way to do this:
- I'd say, 20% monthly decay for PGI cheater score, whenever the player's score is not increased for a month. So if someone "reaches" 3, then for a month he's marked as confirmed cheater, but then, if his PGI cheater score is not increased for a full month, his PGI cheater score is dropped by 20%, - i.e. to 2.4, - and so he's not marked as "confirmed cheater" anymore. Should he remain fair playing, in just 4 months his score will drop further to ~0.98, i.e. below 1, returning him to the pool of players who are not deemed particularly suspicious by PGI staff;
- "cheater score", - the one set by players themselves as described in 1.1, - probably needs a decay too, but i guess somewhat slower one. Perhaps 10% per month, substracted at a given date (end of months? regular maintenance?).

_______________________
1.3 Punishments for cheating
------------------------------------

I believe that even with the best possible intention and execution, mistakes in judgement might sometimes happen. Therefore, punishments for cheating should imho never be permanent - especially in a game which has paid-for content aquired by some of accused players. However, even with temporary measures, it is possible to keep cheaters at bay. It certainly remains at PGI's sole discretion whether and how to punish cheaters, but here's some things i'd do to players with high (read - 3 or higher) "PGI cheater score" (as it's defined in 1.2):
- introducing a hidden feature into match maker, which would force match maker to spend a solid time (say, as much as 3 minutes) trying to put the cheater into a match which only has other people with "PGI cheater score" being equal-or-higher than 1.0. This will result in two effects for the cheater: 1st, substantially slower search for games (he's cheating the game, so why should we care?), and 2nd, isolating cheaters much to themselves (they wanna cheat? Let them HAVE the same from their own kind in return!). For community, this will result in possibly massively less cheaters present in regular games, which is mightily good;
- perhaps making "Cheater indeed!" button - the one which only PGI specialists can see and use, - to also disconnect the cheater from the current game. Silently. Punishment right "here and now", you know?
- perhaps making "Cheater indeed!" button to also block the cheater (and any other players if applicable) from seeing the cheater's personal stats (on MWO website) for a period of, say, 1 month. Silently - just remove the "stats" button for cheaetrs for 1 month, may be? I know for a fact that some players do cheat to hoard for "awesome stats". And as far as i can suspect, PGI does not have any responsibility to show personal stats to players. Not any legal one, at least, i guess?
- in worst cases - definitely obvious, prolonged, massive cheating, - temporary ban is of course in order. Temporary, because PGI do want to keep any player who is willing to stop cheating, since this is a potential for PGI to earn more money. Ban, because a nasty cheaters make people leave, thus reducing PGI profits much more than they themselves could ever bring. As for duration, well, for PGI to say, but me, i'd make 3 varieties: ban for a day, ban for a week, ban for a month. Depending on how bad cheater's cheats are, and if his "PGI cheater score" is (much?) higher than 3, and whether it is repeatable offense, i'd use one of these correspondedly;
- in "worse than worst" cases, - very bad cheats, repeated bans in the past, very high "PGI cheat score", - permanent ban might also be in order. But legal agreements must clearly make it reserved 1st (if not yet), since MWO has paid content. Other than that, - as far as i know, permanent bans of worst cheating accounts are a usual practice in many "paid for" multiplayer games.

Note. I do not believe in "warnings". Because, 1st, many cheaters are simply ignoring it, or even have no chance to see it simply because they do not check their mailbox any often and recieve tons of spam mail; 2nd, because it alerts them about the fact they are caught cheating, without actually doing anything to stop them. May encourage them to seek for better, more discrete, cheat methods, too. And in general, - as can be seen from the small list just above, - i am a big "fan" of discrete methods for "handling" cheaters. If they don't even know what hits them, they have little to no chances to oppose anti-cheat system. Which, given limited amount of effort and time PGI could put into making anti-cheat systems, - is a very good thing, yes?


=================================================
Part 2: the need for anti-cheating systems.

In most, if not all, multiplayer games there are always some folks who want to cheat others. Good multiplayer games, - especially ones which are made to be a media for high-skill competition gameplay, - put much effort into design and implementation of anti-cheat systems. This was the case with shooters since 10+ years ago, in particular.

I guess MWO qualifies as a game which would benefit greatly if some good anti-cheating systems would be implemented and maintained. In Part 1 of this post, i've suggested some highly effective (in my opinion), low-cost methods to implement and maintain one quite efficient anti-cheat system. To back it up, i now must give a solid testimony about actual presense of cheaters in MWO. So, here it is:

Case 1.

A few days ago, in a game, i was spectating "through eyes" of an assault mech for some ~4 minutes. During that time, the mech inflicted large amounts of damage to 5 opponents. It had a few lasers, 2 autocannons, and some LRMs. Thing is, his aiming was clearly automatic - every time he was targeting some enemy, once the targeted enemy was visible, his reticule was placed right on the middle of the enemy, and then his reticule would follow the enemy no matter how enemy would strafe (fast or slow), no matter how far or medium range the enemy is - except there was a tiny lag, causing his recitule to get slightly to the side of any strafing target. Like, a ~0.05 seconds of inertia. But other than that barely noticeable lag, it was exactly like his recitule was "glued" to his current visible target, always staying on _precisely_ same part of the enemy (always pointing to very middle of an enemy, i.e. lower half of torso; never to upper body parts, never to legs, never to arms).

He never used any zoom, too. Not once - even while hitting moving targets some ~500 meters away.

I've been watching this guy missing lots of autocannons shots when targets strafed, and he never attempted to correct his aim. I've been watching him hitting his targets with lasers 100% reliably, with that "glued to the target" reticule of his. Together with his LRMs, and autocannons (whenever his targets were not strafing, or strafing little), he did big-time damage (his total for the game was some ~800sh, with 4 personal kills, and his team lost the match with that; should he be in the winning team, it'd easily go much over a thousand as he'd continue to chew opponents down with ease).

I am sure this guy was a cheater, and i think solid effort should be made to make such players to be unable to keep playing MWO in this manner. At least, if MWO indeed attempts to become a serious competitive shooter.

Case 2.

Some ~2 weeks ago, i've been spectating "through eyes" of a spider, for some ~3 minutes. His aiming reticule behaved in a way which is not possible for a human to produce: namely, whenever this spider 1) had a target, 2) very recently had the target in his LoS, and 3) at the moment had the target out of his LoS, - in other words, whenever his target left his field of view, - his reticule, for a couple seconds, did chaotic, multiple-per-second "instant" movements (more like, jumps) on his screen. Each time for same "distance", - visibly for ~50...70 pixels or so on my screen, - but every time in different direction, and always "around" his current torso-heading point (the torso's crosshair).

Any lag issues he or i might have would never produce so consistent "on" and "off" behaviour - "on" when he just lost the view of his target, but "off" in a few seconds later and until next similar situation. That's why i strongly suspect that this guy was a cheater. Oh, and he was very darn precise with his lasers when fighting other lights, too. Not 100% precise, but not far from it.
=================================================

This concludes my post. Thank you for reading, and please vote in the poll if you have a moment, too.

o7

Edited by FinsT, 14 October 2013 - 06:19 AM.


#2 Heffay

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:50 AM

What is wrong with emailing support@mwomercs.com if you run across someone who you suspect is cheating?

#3 FinsT

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:06 AM

Nothing wrong per se. However, i think it'd be dozens times less effective than a button, since
- vast majority of players who would be willing to just push a button, - would not bother to write down the cheater's name, and then to write an e-mail;
- writing e-mail is not as secure as a button can be. Writing e-mail, you practically "sign" it. A button in the game's client can (and imho - should) be made anonimous;
- majority of regular players possibly never happened to know that it is possible to write about cheaters to an e-mail. Many founders and dedicated players possibly did, - but are they a majority? I guess not.

Edited by FinsT, 14 October 2013 - 06:07 AM.


#4 Heffay

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:10 AM

View PostFinsT, on 14 October 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Nothing wrong per se. However, i think it'd be dozens times less effective than a button


False positives can destroy your efficiency though. If you have a report button, 99% of the reports you get will be invalid ones, so unless you have the support structure necessary to go through those (or some automated way of filtering out duplicates and the like), you're going to need a pretty big support staff to handle it. And PGI is not big.

It would probably be far more efficient to have one of the tips on loading tell people that if they see griefing or team killing to email support@mwomercs.com. At least until they can get the resources to handle a report button, which is probably *far* down the line.

It's not a bad idea, it just should be pretty low priority, as it just isn't feasible right now.

#5 FinsT

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:18 AM

Agree, it's low priority for now, but on the other hand, i see 'em, - i start to do what i can (this topic) about it. Also, it takes long time to implement some things, especially if it wasn't planned at all. Like, fields in a databases to store those separate scores per each account, for example. It'd be little space (two single real variables used per account, a couple bytes, yes?), - but if not reserved in advance, might be very difficult to re-arrange already existing databases. Etc.

False positives are indeed alot. But i hoped that restrictions of the "cheater" button described in 1.1 should limit those to be only some 80% or so. Then, in time, statistically, actual cheaters should end up noticeably "on top" of the cheater score - with possibly very skilled pilots among them, - but quite above the vast majority of player base. That's the idea.

Also, perhaps button name shouldn't mention "cheating" at all. Just thought. Perhaps "report" or something.

And yes, indeed, such an addition to loading-screen tips - would be indeed very good at present time. Excellent idea, Heffay.

#6 C E Dwyer

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:54 AM

Having a cheat button is really dumb, it means that, pgi will only have time for those that get lots of clicks to be investigated, often these ticks will be coerced from friends or lance mates when they thought nothing is wrong, which will give less time to some behaviour/game or personal abuse thats genuine that only got one tick.


There is a support system in place, that works perfectly well and if people are to lazy to use it, then the chances are the alleged crime was just immature raging by the person who felt hard done by

which happens alot in WoT which does have a click report system

Edited by Cathy, 14 October 2013 - 06:58 AM.


#7 FinsT

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:17 AM

View PostCathy, on 14 October 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

... often these ticks will be coerced from friends or lance mates when they thought nothing is wrong, ...
...

Nope, these ticks can't be done by friends - you'd know that if you'd read about the button's restrictions in the 1st post. At least if friends are part of one's group, or pre-made company, or Merc unit (and if they are not, how exactly are they friends - not even being in the same group but still in the same game, eh?). From lance mates, some could come, yes, but again, restrictions i am suggeting would put that to very low amount, since there is that "1 report max per month from a particular player about other particular player". Plus there's decay i also suggested.

edit: oh, and please note i suggest the button to appear during spectating, _only_. There should be no such button during active gameplay - exactly to prevent missclicks and all.

View PostCathy, on 14 October 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

Having a cheat button is really dumb ...

Any other reason to this statement, Cathy? Please give a good one, if at all possible. Because without a hardrock solid reason to make such a statement, you may cause some people to suspect that you are against such a button because, well, it might be a big trouble for you *personally*. No matter if such suspicions would be right or wrong, - i guess it's not needed to make people suspect you in some cheating, Cathy.

edit2: if such a button is a dumb thing - then why one of most thought-through MMORPGs, which is World of Warcraft, - has not just a button, but whole form to report misbehaving, right in the game's client?

Edited by FinsT, 14 October 2013 - 07:36 AM.


#8 Bhael Fire

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:38 AM

I haven't seen anyone cheating for a while.

Way back in the early days of open beta every once and a while in spectator mode you'd see players using aimbots, which were easy to spot because of the irregular "snapping" of the target reticle onto enemy mechs.

#9 The Black Knight

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:17 AM

I can see a "cheater" button being abused. I would assume people would see someone with 800+ damage and spam the cheater button on them. And I can't say I notice anyone that I would say is cheating. The days of the headshot-bot are over, so it would seem. I think a lot of noobs and poor sports think good players must be cheating, when in fact they are just good. I would like there to be an easier way to report farmers, especially on double xp weekends. This weekend I saw people xp farming, which is kind of like cheating right?

#10 FinsT

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:58 AM

Ok, jents, i hear ya both.

Bhael Fire: yep, this sort of thing happens again. If you didn't read Case 1 and Case 2 which are inside Part 2 of the 1st post of this topic, - then perhaps read 'em; might be interesting for you to compare what i've seen with your experience. Especially case 2.

the black knight:
- i can't see the button being abused in the way you describe, since the button i suggest would not be spammable. I suggested restrictions to the button in the 1st post keeping possible abuse in mind as much as i can. Said restrictions prevent spamming the button. Feel free to read it up there in the 1st post if you're interested about details; more ideas and corrections to mine are sure welcome, if they're good.
- the days of headshot bot couldn't last, because it's so obvious cheat. More subtle cheats apparently replaced it, - ones which are not so easy to notice by both spectators and "targets". Part 2 of the 1st post gives two examples, and recent ones.

P.S. Commenting a feature suggestion without reading it in its entirety may bring some awkward moments, yes? Sigh...

#11 Sabazial

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:06 AM

An anonymous report button would be abused, plain and simple. The support email is perfectly viable, and if someone can't be bothered to write a 2 minute email about the suspected player then the player wasn't worth reporting in the first place.

On a different note i have in the last few weeks seen a disturbingly regular pattern of players headshotting other mechs with AC20's while jump jetting, could just be extremely skilled players but when i get headshot in my spider travelling at 152kph it makes me wonder if it was just luck / good aiming sometimes.

#12 FinsT

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:29 AM

"An" anonymous report button - may be. But "the" button i suggested here - with its restrictions which i described in 1.1 section of the 1st post - would it be? You please tell me how exactly such an abuse could happen, please. Cause i fail to see any much abuse possible, given restrictions i described. Need help here!

About headshots: you sure these were headshots, though? I did some testing shooting a spider on Crimson Strait map, testing grounds, with an AC/20. I've found that 2 shots to the central torso kills it 100%. And my jagers are able to alpha dual AC/20s - despite much additional heat, i use it on lights sometimes, when a particularly good "firing solution" happens. So, could it be that what you had - were not headshots, but just 2xAC/20 hits to the torso?

Edited by FinsT, 14 October 2013 - 09:30 AM.


#13 Arch Angel 09

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

I could see cheater button being abused quite a bit. I like the idea to bring players who are suspected to the attention of PGI but I would be against any form of automated punishment. I think the current ticket system is fine to report suspected cheaters however i would like to see and in game option/button that allows you to click on it to link to a ticket with the accused gamer tag and time and match type info and such already put into the ticket to make it easier for PGI staff to track these guys down. I feel that if it is too easy/streamlined to report possible cheaters than the it will be abused and take away PGI's resources from development on wild goose chases for cheaters that are just better pilots than there abusers. I just don't see enough cheaters to merit changes from the current report via ticket system but like i said the could add a direct link from in game that auto fills in some ticket info and then you could just elaborate on the report before submitting

#14 Wintersdark

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:59 AM

View PostHeffay, on 14 October 2013 - 06:10 AM, said:


False positives can destroy your efficiency though. If you have a report button, 99% of the reports you get will be invalid ones, so unless you have the support structure necessary to go through those (or some automated way of filtering out duplicates and the like), you're going to need a pretty big support staff to handle it. And PGI is not big.

It would probably be far more efficient to have one of the tips on loading tell people that if they see griefing or team killing to email support@mwomercs.com. At least until they can get the resources to handle a report button, which is probably *far* down the line.

It's not a bad idea, it just should be pretty low priority, as it just isn't feasible right now.


Probably more than 99% false positives.

I see countless people accusing others of cheating, and in almost every case they're clearly, objectively wrong and just feel what someone did was too hard to be possible.

Got headshot in a spider? Why even assume that was cheating? It's a small target, but consider they probably weren't even aiming at your head, just center mass, and they missed... and got lucky.

Lag, HSR, Spectator Mode:

In Spectator Mode, what you see is not what the pilot sees. It's basically a feed of their data to your client to render, and this means what you see is offset from what they see by a fairly substantial margin due to their ping, server lag, and your ping all added together.

HSR as well makes things look sketchy, and often is the cause of the "OMG he shot me through the wall! HAX!" - because of lag, you where (to him!) in the open when he fired. HSR calculates whether or not hit hit based on where you were to him when he pulled the trigger. This does mean that a shot can hit you after you move into cover. It's like a funny time travel story ;)

When cumulative ping times get higher, and/or a player has a measure of packet loss or jitter, spectating him can cause interesting "twitchiness". If it where worse, he'd appear to a spectator to rubberband, but such rubberbanding would be invisible on the living players' side. But if it's not bad enough to cause spectating rubber banding, but still present, it'll cause his reticule to jump and his mech to move jerkily. Position will be pretty reliable as your client can predict where he'll be much more accurately than where he'll be aiming.

For example, whenever I spectate a friend, due to relative lag this is very common. I know for a fact that he's not cheating (and in fact poor hit registration is a huge problem for him) but it absolutely does look like what people describe as cheating: His reticule jumps instantly from point to point and as he's pretty precise, this results in his aim jumping directly to the portion of a mech he's aiming at.




I've got several thousands of drops. In that time, I've never seen anything that I'd even consider cheating, nothing that can't be ascribed to luck or skills. I've had several multi-headshot matches myself. When I was running 35+ point pinpoint alphas, it wasn't even uncommon. Just luck. From the victims viewpoint, it may have looked like cheating (particularly scoring 4 in a single match) but it wasn't. It wasn't even skill, really, just luck. It seems like long odds to a spectator in that one match, but from my perspective, that was a one in a hundred match, after lots of matches where I managed to miss every cockpit I aimed at.

#15 Sandpit

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 07:43 PM

there is an anti-cheat system. It's called reporting it to support. Not to mention that just about every single post I've ever seen on the forums accusing a player of cheating equates to things like luck, skill, and poor play. Just because you get owned doesn't mean the other guy was cheating. If they are legitimately doing something to exploit, cheat, or hack then simply report them. I promise you if the support team sees a report they will check it out and confirm it. They can see all kinds of data and info that players have no access to.

#16 Bhael Fire

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:07 PM

View PostFinsT, on 14 October 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

Bhael Fire: yep, this sort of thing happens again. If you didn't read Case 1 and Case 2 which are inside Part 2 of the 1st post of this topic, - then perhaps read 'em; might be interesting for you to compare what i've seen with your experience. Especially case 2.


Like I said, I haven't seen it in a very long time. Every once and a while I see weird stuff happen, but it's basically pretty innocuous stuff...and nothing suspicious.

If you believe a player is cheating, send in a report to support@mwomercs.com with a full description of what you witnessed, with the player's name and screenshots. They have the ability to observe anyone that is playing in a match and determine if their behavior is in violation of the terms of use.

Edited by Bhael Fire, 14 October 2013 - 08:08 PM.


#17 Roland

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 08:12 PM

I have played since closed beta, and have never seen an effective cheater. The closest I witnessed was someone running a farming bot which stood still and auto targeted mechs which came close.

#18 Hythos

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:43 PM

View PostBhael Fire, on 14 October 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

I haven't seen anyone cheating for a while.

Way back in the early days of open beta every once and a while in spectator mode you'd see players using aimbots, which were easy to spot because of the irregular "snapping" of the target reticle onto enemy mechs.

I have a nice video of aim-botting happening this past week. ERLL on a spider. Though that's the lease of my worries. What I find more offensive is the 'ping-spoof' exploit. Quite honestly, the "Screenshot or it didn't happen" requirement has gotten quite old.... I only have a 128GB SSD and a 160GB Barracuda :P I don't have enough space for more recordings. A "report" function would be highly useful, being that PGI already knows exactly how often any weapon is fired, how much damage it deals, and based on this, the frequency of hits, etc. They should have enough data to review.

#19 Bhael Fire

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 09:55 PM

View PostHythos, on 14 October 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

I have a nice video of aim-botting happening this past week. ERLL on a spider. Though that's the lease of my worries. What I find more offensive is the 'ping-spoof' exploit. Quite honestly, the "Screenshot or it didn't happen" requirement has gotten quite old.... I only have a 128GB SSD and a 160GB Barracuda :P I don't have enough space for more recordings. A "report" function would be highly useful, being that PGI already knows exactly how often any weapon is fired, how much damage it deals, and based on this, the frequency of hits, etc. They should have enough data to review.


There is already a REPORT function: email support@mwomercs.com and give them the name of the player.

That's ALL they need to observe the player in action and look at their metrics for any suspicious activity.

#20 FinsT

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:39 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 14 October 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

...
I see countless people accusing others of cheating, and in almost every case they're clearly, objectively wrong and just feel what someone did was too hard to be possible.
...

"Xcuse me, but where exactly you see countless people accusing others of cheating? Wait, no. I don't want to know.

You are in this here topic, and what you see here - is me. 1 guy. And, if you did bother to read the 1st post in entirety (which i don't know if you did), then you'd clearly _see_ the "Case 1" in it. Which your whole big post doesn't comment in any way, - despite discussing other - often indeed invalid, - reasons to accuse someone of cheating.

Please, do me a favor and read "Case 1" in the 1st post, if you didn't yet; and then please do me another favor and comment on it. Even 1-2 lines would finely do, but detailed comment is of course the most welcome. Sir.

P.S. Nope, i am convinced it won't be more than 99% false positives. I am quite sure it won't even be 95%, if implemented as described in the p.1.1 of the 1st post. In fact, it deem it possible that false positives could be as low as 60% or so, considering what poll's results are (so far) and what exactly these results tell about who and how would use the button. Since you said not a word about described in p.1.1 restrictions, i suspect you did not read that part, and that's why you said it probably could be more than 99%. If so - how unfortunate.

Edited by FinsT, 15 October 2013 - 02:46 AM.






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