35 replies to this topic

[Maver0ick]

I'm thinking of building a new PC for gaming with the following components and I was wondering what kind of power supply would I need? The build will have the following components:

CPU: Intel Core i7-4770
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z87X-D3H
RAM: Corsair Vengeance Pro Silver 16GB (2x8GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL9 DIMMs
Hard Drive: WD Black 1TB 3.5" SATA3 7200RPM 64MB Cache OEM Hard Drive
Graphics: Sapphire Radeon R9 280X DUAL-X OC 3GB GDDR5
Optical: Pioneer Internal Blu-Ray Combo Drive
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two Mid-ATX
CPU cooler: Corsair Hydro Series H80i High Performance Liquid CPU Cooler

At the moment, I am considering the Corsair Professional Series Modular HX650 (650W) or HX750 (750W) 80PLUS Gold Certified PSU. I don't plan on doing any overclocking.

[Egomane]

500W would be enough. You will be somewhere between 350 and 400 watt in total under full load, I'd say. So with 500 watt you have some room for consumption spikes and aging of the PSU.

If you plan to do some overclocking or adding a second GPU to the system, I'd go for 600 - 700 watt.

You might want to take a look at the Seasonic Platinum 660 or 520 as they are in the same price area as your Corsair choices, but with an even better efficiency. The 520 is even fanless, that might interfere with your cooling concept for the case, but is otherwise a cool feature for a silent PC.

I'm getting myself one of those for my new system. The (NEW) parts are ordered and should arrive by wednesday.

CPU: (NEW) Intel Core i7-4770K
Motherboard: (NEW) ASRock Extreme6
RAM: reusing my old GSkills 12 GB (2x 2GB and 2x 4 GB modules)
Hard Drive: reusing my old drives (120 GB SSD, 3x 1TB HDD)
Graphics: reusing my Gigabyte HD7970GHz
Optical: reusing my LG Blu-Ray Combo Drive
PSU: (NEW) Seasonic Platinum 660
CPU Cooler: (NEW) be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 2

The R9 of yours and my 7970GHz are essentially the same (they can even be crossfired with each other), so we will be very close to each other in "stock" performance. I chose the 660 watt variant of my PSU so I have some room for overclocking. That's also the reason for the massive CPU cooler.

Edited by Egomane, 14 October 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[Catamount]

Well since you're not getting a 4770k to overclock, since they suck at it, you could plug those numbers into a calculator for power draw, but really, CPU+GPU TDP * 1.5 is a good rule of thumb.

The CPU draws 84, the GPU is just a 7970GE, so 250, so we'll call it (84+250)*1.5= 447. So a 450W PSU would be fine if you're not looking to do any overclocking. OTOH, you don't need a Corsair H80i if you're not going to overclock. If you are looking for an extreme overclock, I would not get Haswell, plain and simple. Tom's Hardware reports that most chips in a retail sample were capping at 4.3-4.4GHZ. An Ivy Bridge chip can do that without even increasing voltage, although I don't know if they suffer still the IHS issue, as both IB and Haswell did as of only a short bit ago (if so, you can fix that, but it's a fair bit of work, and a small risk to the chip).

So if you're getting an H80i, and you want a good OC that justifies that purchase, I would get a 3770k or 2600k instead. The 3770k has some of the better IPC of later chips, but the 2600k will very likely clock higher. Both will do better than a 4770k.


If you DO plan to go to town with an overclock on that liquid system, you'll need more juice from the PSU. I would suggest 600W if you're only planning a CPU overclock, and 700+ if you're planning a CPU+GPU overclock, 800+ if you plan to OC the CPU and plan on going Crossfire later.

Also, a quick note: You may be able to get a Radeon HD 7970GE (or a Sapphire 7970OC) cheaper than an R9 280x. They are the same exact GPU so get whatever's cheaper.

Edited by Catamount, 14 October 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Sen]

http://images10.newe...calc/index.html

That should give you a rough guestimate.


Cat:

Kinda half off topic, but you really have to go back to Sandy for a decent overclocker. That said, haswell is still a very good choice in a world where stock performance is well more than enough for most people. Sure, Haswell may only do 4.2-4.4, but what real world gains are you going to see between 4.2 and 4.5 anyway?

They may not overclock as high, but the performance is still up there. The only real difference is that, in my experience, Haswell 4670k draws about 38-40 watts idle while sandy 2600k draws 90-95, and my Sandy-E 3930k draws about 140. That's the only way I can differentiate them, because they all perform approximately the same 95% of the time.

Edited by Sen, 14 October 2013 - 04:45 PM.

[Catamount]

Oh of course they all perform the same at stock clocks, give or take, but there's a big difference between a 4.3ghz Haswell and a 5ghz SB chip, in performance. Now, normally the Haswell performs well enough at stock clocks that I wouldn't worry, it's just that if the OP is going to spend that kind of money on a cooler, they should only buy an OC-geared chip

IB is a decent halfway, though. No, you won't hit 5ghz on many, but they go to 4.3 without voltage changes, and typically in the 4.7-4.8 range with voltage increases (on a good board), when paired with a good cooler, IF the IHS is good. IB also gets IPC between SB and Haswell, and IB has the lowest TDP (77 vs 84 and 95) and best temperatures of all three, as a result of that low TDP.


So, imho, the 3770k is the chip to go with for an overclock. You'll get almost as far as SB with lower temps and less power.

Edited by Catamount, 15 October 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

If you're not overclocking get a Xeon e3 1230v3, it's the same chip less the iGPU for $200-250. Then take the extra $100 and buy a SSD for your OS and whatever games you're currently playing (aside from mwo since load time doesn't really matter for this game).

*Edited to answer the OP's question*

What psu you should buy depends on if you want to cross fire in the future, if so I'd get the 750 or an 850, if not you can go for a high quality 500W PSU. Alternatively sell the 500W PSU if you decide to crossfire at a later date and then buy an appropriately sized PSU.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 14 October 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[Hougham]

Its always nice to have a little extra head room. So whatever size you work out you require its worth option for a PSU a little bigger. PSUs tend to be more efficient when running under less load. When I say this I mean that when you get close to 100% load most PSUs will see a significant drop in efficiency and increase in heat production. Going slightly over then required on PSU capacity also gives you more head room for when the PSU get older and or ingest a fair bit of dust in so reducing it's effective capacity. Its a bit like CPU coolers, your always best to go a little over on what is strictly required. ( I have slightly edited it to hopefully make it easier for them to understand )

Edited by Hougham, 16 October 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[1Sascha]

Just use one of the many PSU-/system-calculators out there:


http://www.bequiet.c...lculator/expert


S.

[Rushin Roulette]

550-600 W should do it (Just make sure that the PSU has the correct connectors for your GPU as that is the mistake most newbs make).

alternatively if you want something with a little more oompf

Spoiler

[Egomane]

Hougham, on 14 October 2013 - 10:58 PM, said:

PSUs tend to be more efficient when running under less load

Sorry, but this is wrong!

Efficiency is a curve, going from very poor at low loads (20 % or less), to best performance at about 50 %, performing good until 80 % load and then dropping down again, but not as hard as in the 20 % or less bracket.

These numbers may vary between different PSUs and manufacturers, but in essence they are always true. You can often times find this curve printed on the cartonage the PSU was packed in. Note that some manufacturers don't list the below 20 % efficiency for marketing reasons.

As most systems spend their time idling or on light tasks, using an overpowered PSU will cost you money for wasted energy.

[Martin Oberhofer]

true the effetivness of an PSU tops a around 50% and depending on the model is still good until 80-95%.
just some numbers
I Drive a Sandy i5 @4.8 and a HD7970 @ 1.25 with a Enermax 535W -> @ max Load it drains 430W from the plug incl. Water Cooling SSD + HDD and a total of 8 Fans
Idle is around 70W with GPU OC around 110W
Summer setting:
Sandy i5 @ 3.8 and HD7970 @ 0.725 @ Max Load 240W
Idle is around 55W

so 450-500W and your fine - for sure

[Sen]

Quote

but there's a big difference between a 4.3ghz Haswell and a 5ghz SB chip

If you're lucky enough to GET a SB chip that will hit 5 Ghz. All in all though, you're probably looking at 4.5 to 4.7 somewhere, and 4.3 vs 4.7 isn't going to be a really noticeable performance change.

Then again, I stick to light overclocking for a "best of both worlds" power/efficiency standpoint, so take that with a grain of salt as well ^^

Edited by Sen, 15 October 2013 - 05:46 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Sen, on 15 October 2013 - 05:45 AM, said:

If you're lucky enough to GET a SB chip that will hit 5 Ghz. All in all though, you're probably looking at 4.5 to 4.7 somewhere, and 4.3 vs 4.7 isn't going to be a really noticeable performance change.

Then again, I stick to light overclocking for a "best of both worlds" power/efficiency standpoint, so take that with a grain of salt as well ^^

I can get my 2500k to 5ghz....but i would want more than a corsair H80 to keep it at such for a length of heavy gaming as it gets rather warm.
SB chips are still the easiest to obtain good overclocks at acceptable temperatures.

Was rather disappointed with Haswell tbh

Edited by DV McKenna, 15 October 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Hougham]

Egomane, on 15 October 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

Sorry, but this is wrong!

LOL ok let me reiterate what I said before anyone else gets it wrong. If you calculate the power used by all your system components you can get a total system power usage. However there are several very good reasons why you should get a power supply larger then what these calculations total. .

One very good reason is that the numbers the manufacturers give for power usage are set under controlled environments. Often real would numbers will vary significantly.

Power supplies performance varies with age. This is for several reasons but it is true to all. So what may have started out as a 500w power supply could end up significantly less capable down the line.

Under given situations systems power levels will spike. All power supplies have higher peak loads then sustained loads but there is no real knowing what a systems peak will be.

If a power supply is breathing in hot air such as that potentially from inside the case or from next to a radiator its performance will decrease.

Often cheaper and even some more expensive power supplies will be marginal on there published output..

If your power supply has no or inadequate partial filtration it will accumulate dust. This will result in higher temperatures and reduce efficiency and reduced total power handling.

If you are gamming or using any other power apps the system will often see full load. Power efficiency will drop and the odd of power supply failure increase if you often push a power supply close to or beyond its intended operating parameters.

And yes all power supplies will fail in time. The harder you posh then more often then not will result in this failure happening sooner rather then later.

So all this and more is why most people will opt for a slightly bigger power supply. For example if your system works out at 500w under full load a safe bet would be to use a 550w supply preferably from a reputable manufacture. Yes you may loose electrical efficiency under light use put you will save a fair amount more under high load if you intend to use it in anger and you will potentially have a far more reliable and stable system

Edited by Hougham, 15 October 2013 - 09:14 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Hougham, on 15 October 2013 - 09:03 AM, said:

LOL ok let me reiterate what I said before anyone else gets it wrong. If you calculate the power used by all your system components you can get a total system power usage. However there are several very good reasons why you should get a power supply larger then what these calculations total. .

One very good reason is that the numbers the manufacturers give for power usage are set under controlled environments. Often real would numbers will vary significantly.

Power supplies performance varies with age. This is for several reasons but it is true to all. So what may have started out as a 500w power supply could end up significantly less capable down the line.

Under given situations systems power levels will spike. All power supplies have higher peak loads then sustained loads but there is no real knowing what a systems peak will be.

If a power supply is breathing in hot air such as that potentially from inside the case or from next to a radiator its performance will decrease.

Often cheaper and even some more expensive power supplies will be marginal on there published output..

If your power supply has no or inadequate partial filtration it will accumulate dust. This will result in higher temperatures and reduce efficiency and reduced total power handling.

If you are gamming or using any other power apps the system will often see full load. Power efficiency will drop and the odd of power supply failure increase if you often push a power supply close to or beyond its intended operating parameters.

And yes all power supplies will fail in time. The harder you posh then more often then not will result in this failure happening sooner rather then later.

So all this and more is why most people will opt for a slightly bigger power supply. For example if your system works out at 500w under full load a safe bet would be to use a 550w supply preferably from a reputable manufacture. Yes you may loose electrical efficiency under light use put you will save a fair amount more under high load if you intend to use it in anger and you will potentially have a far more reliable and stable system

You haven't addressed what he said was wrong with your post.

And yes Ego was correct in pointing out your error.

[xWiredx]

To dispell all myths, simply reference Johnny Guru whenever you have a PSU question: http://www.jonnyguru...php?name=NDFAQs

I personally favor Seasonic, though they are an OEM for many companies (companies like Corsair have been known to take reference Seasonic designs and make simple modifications to fit their goals). Seasonic is notorious for PSU perfection.With that system setup, I'd go with 550-650W and modular due to the case. Keep some open air where you can in that case, and route your cables properly.

[METAL SEPARATOR]

Seasonic all the way. You clearly cannot make a mistake by getting one.

[Shamous13]

MWn00b, on 16 October 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Seasonic all the way. You clearly cannot make a mistake by getting one.

This, especially if you are going to OC in the future.

[Egomane]

Sorry for hijacking this thread a bit. But as I posted my new build already in the second post of the thread and because of the similarity to the one the OP is getting, I'm not completly off-topic.

I got my new hardware today and have it now installed. Sadly I didn't get a very good haswell chip. Best I can do at overclocking is 4.4 GHz @ 1.3 volt. But at least this setting seems stable. Any less voltage and my GPU driver fails to load. Less then 1.2 and I get a bluescreen.

The above mentioned CPU cooler is keeping the cores below 70 degrees celsius at 100 % load (AIDA 64 system stability test).

Spoiler

Now I will need to see if it stays stable in games and other applications too. I'll run some benchmarks early next week.

[v4skunk]

Egomane, on 16 October 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:

Sorry for hijacking this thread a bit. But as I posted my new build already in the second post of the thread and because of the similarity to the one the OP is getting, I'm not completly off-topic.

I got my new hardware today and have it now installed. Sadly I didn't get a very good haswell chip. Best I can do at overclocking is 4.4 GHz @ 1.3 volt. But at least this setting seems stable. Any less voltage and my GPU driver fails to load. Less then 1.2 and I get a bluescreen.

The above mentioned CPU cooler is keeping the cores below 70 degrees celsius at 100 % load (AIDA 64 system stability test).

Spoiler

Now I will need to see if it stays stable in games and other applications too. I'll run some benchmarks early next week.

Your cpu has high max temps.
I have a 2600k @ 4.5ghz and it never goes over 55c on full load. I would lower clocks or get a better cooler.