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Time To Choose A Faction, But Which One?


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#61 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 06:22 AM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 16 October 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

"None of them are actually part of the Elected Prince's government"? You surely jest, Kurita flunkey!
Your own sources state the truth!

"Prince Magnusson's government is notable for the lack of Tyr members from the 'Lyran Half', worlds conquered by the Lyran Commonwealth during the Fourth Succession War."
"The Motpart [...] consists of members of the Riksdag who oppose the Prince on principle or who were once Tyr members from the Lyran Half."

As such, the Motpart cannot be called part of the Elected Prince's government (for this would contradict the first sentence), even though they may surely influence it by using their locally gained mandate in parliament. I take the sentence to mean that the Lyran Lackeys do not supply any ministers etc but are, quite simply, the opposition to the government. A powerful opposition, to be sure, but still not one that can "call the shots" - else they would have forced Magnusson to give up his policy long ago.

View PostStrum Wealh, on 16 October 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

As such, my original statement is still true and correct - "those elements of the FRR government (including the powers-that-be within the FRR military) that do express a preference one way or the other (as opposed to trying to maintain a neutral stance... or the facade of such) maintain a higher view of the Lyrans than of the Combine".
Ha! A bunch of corrupt nobles, their pockets lined by Lyran wealth, scurrying about and making noise to appease their benefactors. Surely the people of Rasalhague are much too proud to let their fate be guided by House Steiner's manipulation. Their response to the actions of Duke Kelswa during the Republic's birth should have shown as much!

Just because others see the wisdom in the Elected Prince's balanced approach - which is in line with the Coordinator's current wishes - does not mean the Dragon has no sympathizers left in Rasalhague. There may have been some ... minor discord from time to time, but the many centuries of benign protection by the Combine have knit both realms closely together in spirit.

Did you know that Tomoe Sakade, wife to Kanrei Theodore Kurita, heir to the Chrysanthemum Throne, is a descendent of Ingrid Magnusson?

As the saying goes: The patient blade strikes truest. :unsure:

#62 Strum Wealh

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:20 AM

View PostKyone Akashi, on 17 October 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Your own sources state the truth!

"Prince Magnusson's government is notable for the lack of Tyr members from the 'Lyran Half', worlds conquered by the Lyran Commonwealth during the Fourth Succession War."
"The Motpart [...] consists of members of the Riksdag who oppose the Prince on principle or who were once Tyr members from the Lyran Half."

As such, the Motpart cannot be called part of the Elected Prince's government (for this would contradict the first sentence), even though they may surely influence it by using their locally gained mandate in parliament. I take the sentence to mean that the Lyran Lackeys do not supply any ministers etc but are, quite simply, the opposition to the government. A powerful opposition, to be sure, but still not one that can "call the shots" - else they would have forced Magnusson to give up his policy long ago.
There isn't a contradiction - "lack" can just as easily mean "the state of not having enough of something" as "the state of being without something".

In other words, the statements in question use the former definition to indicate that there are relatively few "Tyr members from the 'Lyran half'" (who, it should be noted, are mostly native Rasalhaguians rather than actual Lyrans... and who would almost-certainly take great exception at being mistaken for Lyrans :D) within the government & that they are largely concentrated within the Riksdag (which is still very much part of the Rasalhaguian government), rather than the wholesale absence of said Tyr members from the government.

View PostKyone Akashi, on 17 October 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Ha! A bunch of corrupt nobles, their pockets lined by Lyran wealth, scurrying about and making noise to appease their benefactors. Surely the people of Rasalhague are much too proud to let their fate be guided by House Steiner's manipulation. Their response to the actions of Duke Kelswa during the Republic's birth should have shown as much!

Just because others see the wisdom in the Elected Prince's balanced approach - which is in line with the Coordinator's current wishes - does not mean the Dragon has no sympathizers left in Rasalhague. There may have been some ... minor discord from time to time, but the many centuries of benign protection by the Combine have knit both realms closely together in spirit.
The Rasalhaguians have - and continue to - let their their will be known with regard to Duke Kelswa's underhanded actions (which, it should be noted, were also in direct contradiction to then-Archon Katrina Steiner's recognition of Rasalhaguian independence in much the same way that the actions of the DCMS "ronin" were in direct contradiction to Theodore Kurita's recognition of Rasalhaguian independence), just as they have - and continue to - let their will be known with regard to the Combine's centuries of occupation & subjugation (and if that's what the Dragon calls "benign protection", it's no small wonder that the Combine turned to the ever-trecherous Capellans and constantly-bickering League for "friendship" after spitting on Katrina Steiner's peace proposal - neither the Confederation nor the League has had the misfortune of sharing a border with the Combine, and have thusly had their worlds spared the results of the Combine's not-so-benign idea of "protection").

View PostKyone Akashi, on 17 October 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

Did you know that Tomoe Sakade, wife to Kanrei Theodore Kurita, heir to the Chrysanthemum Throne, is a descendent of Ingrid Magnusson?
And?
Even if we take that to be true, it's not like the Inner Sphere - the Suns, most of all - doesn't remember that the Dragon has tried that particular trick before.
Not that it would help in the case of Rasalhague; since the post of Elected Prince isn't hereditary, trying the blood-claim stunt - again - would probably get about as far as, say, claiming that she's somehow a descendant of the Camerons as well! :(

View PostKyone Akashi, on 17 October 2013 - 06:22 AM, said:

As the saying goes: The patient blade strikes truest. :)
As a practitioner of the fine and noble art of fence, I cannot disagree with the statement's face-value.

Though, even the liveliest blade cannot act with a hand to guide it.

Given the implications of your use of such a statement in conjunction with your previous allusion that the (presumed) heritage of Madame Sakade is somehow relevant to the FRR's governance (or a discussion thereof) in any way, shape, or form... well, one must wonder what form that "patient blade" might take, who you think is holding said blade, and who you think it is intended to strike. :D

#63 BrokenDog

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:47 AM

Marchant Consardine look what you've started! Do you fell guilty or are you now sitting there giggling? Mmmm!!!! Steiner!! 'nuff said! :)

#64 HugoStiglitz

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:57 AM

Don't forget that the FedSuns has the access to all the newer tech like Rotary ACs, Triple Strength Myomer and DHS through the New Avalon Institute of Science. If you want cool toys Davion is for you.

Edited by HugoStiglitz, 17 October 2013 - 10:57 AM.


#65 Praehotec8

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:15 AM

Worry not freebirth, the children of Kerensky return, and we will save Terra from the petty tyrants of the inner sphere.

#66 pinsndneedles

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

Strum Wealh, Kyone Akashi. Dudes. Chill. A debate about whether the FRR likes us in the FedSuns or not is kinda moot. They trade, we don't share borders, and as far as IS politics are concerned that kind of state of relations is the next best thing to alliance. Besides, there's more important things to discuss in this thread, seeing as OP sparked some nice RP debates. Mostly, how Capellans are utterly terrible to people. I think this is something we can all agree on, thought that's not to say FedSuns and Dracs don't have their own dirty laundry. I certainly Remember Kentares. :)

#67 Lord Ikka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

The fedrat speaks true- the debate on the FRR is really for another time/thread.

Kentares was a mistake and tragedy- in a few ways.

First, the fact that the Coordinators bodyguards were lax enough to let him travel on foot in an active, unsecured warzone was a horrible lack of judgement. The FedSun sniper was simply doing his job, but he didn't know what his shot would cause.

Second, the unfortunate death of the Coordinator left his unbalanced son Jinjiro in control. While brilliant in a strategic sense, he was an unstable man, prone to violent rages. Rage at their Coordinator's death is understandable, but the DCMS wouldn't have initiated a massacre without the orders of Jinjiro.

Third, the massacre rallied the FedSuns so that they were able to throw back the DCMS and end the 1st Succession War. It lead to mass suicides of the 'Warriors who participated in the massacre, weakening the Combine's military. Combined with the massacre of the Eridani Light Horse dependents and the ensuing distrust between the Combine and mercenaries in general; the Kentares Massacre hurt the Combine massively.

Edited by Lord Ikka, 17 October 2013 - 11:55 AM.


#68 Strum Wealh

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:10 PM

All true words, from both Grim and Ikka. :D

-----

RP elements aside, it does raise the question:

PGI has hinted that the FedCom alliance between the FedSuns and the Lyrans could/would be represented in-game (including affecting the in-game c-bill pricing on 'Mechs & equipment and which planets Faction Players and affiliated Mercs can attack), and it's not unthinkable that the Concord of Kapteyn might also be implemented in some manner.

So, where would that leave the FRR, which is neither party to the FedCom accords not party to the Kapteyn Accords - for do they always pay full prices (or even higher "out-of-alliance" marked-up prices) for everything, and where do/should they fall within the attack/defend schemes of Community Warfare? :)

#69 Lord Ikka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

I'm guessing discounted prices on Combine/Lyran Mechs, as those are the ones they have the most of.

#70 M4NTiC0R3X

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:19 PM

Have always been and will always be a warden member of Clan Wolf. I like to pretend I was part of the Wolfs Dragoons until I returned home to try 'n convince Leo 'n Vlad that the ' freebirth ' scum could be used to our advantage instead of decimated. Yes I did just do that to your canon :)

#71 Evilbunny

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:52 PM

I'm Steiner all the way! As the better half of the Federated Commonwealth we enjoy the freedom that only cash flow can give. Yes, I inherited my Mechs when my father died in the 3rd succesion war against Kurita. We also have the beniffits of the New Avalon Institute. Also If mechs go along faction lines Steiner should have early access to the Zues and Bushmaster. Plus who doesn't like Katrina Steiner.

#72 Lord Ikka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 12:53 PM

View PostEvilbunny, on 17 October 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

Plus who doesn't like Katrina Steiner.

Sane people who like stable government.

#73 Specter76

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostLord Ikka, on 17 October 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Sane people who like stable government.


Stable government is overrated. Atlases on the other hand...

#74 Strum Wealh

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostLord Ikka, on 17 October 2013 - 12:53 PM, said:

Sane people who like stable government.

Katrina Steiner and her daughter Melissa were pretty good about that aspect, actually. :)
The problems came mainly from Katrina's name-usurping granddaughter, Katherine. :o

#75 Lord Ikka

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostStrum Wealh, on 17 October 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

Katrina Steiner and her daughter Melissa were pretty good about that aspect, actually. :)
The problems came mainly from Katrina's name-usurping granddaughter, Katherine. :o

True. Depends on which Katrina Evilbunny is talking about I guess. The newer one gets a lot more lore-time, so that's immediately the one I thought of.

#76 pinsndneedles

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 01:43 PM

Thankfully crazy Katherine is still a few years out from screwing the pooch, so we do have that. The actual Katrina is pretty cool from a lore standpoint.

#77 Kyone Akashi

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

View PostBrother Grim, on 17 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Strum Wealh, Kyone Akashi. Dudes. Chill. [...] there's more important things to discuss in this thread, seeing as OP sparked some nice RP debates
I thought we were having a nice RP debate. :)

#78 HugoStiglitz

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 03:31 AM

View PostEvilbunny, on 17 October 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:

I'm Steiner all the way! As the better half of the Federated Commonwealth we enjoy the freedom that only cash flow can give. Yes, I inherited my Mechs when my father died in the 3rd succesion war against Kurita. We also have the beniffits of the New Avalon Institute. Also If mechs go along faction lines Steiner should have early access to the Zues and Bushmaster. Plus who doesn't like Katrina Steiner.


Maybe with TSM the famous Steiner scouts will be able to finally out flank that bunker. Also I do hope that you are talking about Katrina Steiner and not Katherine Steiner-Davion, the person who ruins the future her parents tried to create because she just felt like it.

#79 Strum Wealh

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:03 AM

View PostKyone Akashi, on 17 October 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

I thought we were having a nice RP debate. :wub:

I thought so, as well. :)

Though, I can also see how it may have been getting a bit... intense, especially with regard to a thread where the OP expressly stated that they were more interested in potential game mechanics, and not so much interested in the lore/RP aspects that might support, and be supported by, those same mechanics.

As such, I've started a thread in the FRR subforum wherein the primary topic of discussion is the FRR's relationships with the other factions (ideally, both from in-universe and out-of-universe perspectives), which should serve as a more appropriate means of continuing the discussion (if, indeed, a continuation is desired).

Also... is your name phonetically "kee-yon" (like the character from Haruhi) or "kee-yoh-nay" (like the character from Tenchi Muyo)? <_<

#80 OvertEnemy

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Posted 18 October 2013 - 04:17 AM

View PostPraehotec8, on 17 October 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Worry not freebirth, the children of Kerensky return, and we will save Terra from the petty tyrants of the inner sphere.


*Blows a Raspberry* Hope your gene-tank of a parent is proud of you :)





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