17 replies to this topic

[Fuko ibuki]

I'm new in this game and I would like to know which is the better mech, the stalker 5S or 5M for a Missile Boat build. Thanks!

[Goose]

I … Don't get along with my 5S, but I feel I pick right with it: The XL frees up needed tonnage for four 15-racks.

I also like the stereo AMS thing, for the counter-battery fire …

[PPO Kuro]

Look at http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/ scroll down to Stalkers. There you can see the layout of the mech and how many missles will be launch when firing. For example: 1 M (10) means 1 missle weapon port with 10 launcher tubes.

The 5M has 5 Missile slots, 2 in left torso, but has only 7 tubs. That's because the standard build has a NARC in the left torso. It also has a center torso energy mount. So this means when using STD engine you can still shoot stuff. The 5S has the problem that when you lose one side of your mech it's down 50% in offensive power.

Reason I sometimes use XL engine in this Mech, because I still have the opinion that when you lose one of your side your dead very quick after that anyways, so I rather take more firepower and potentially die faster. Upside, it has 2 AMS.

This can be fun when used with a group of AMS carrying mechs. What is best is totally up to you. Personally I like the 5M more and that's only because it has a central energy slot.

Here are some build I use or planning to. I don't really use LRM boats Stalker build because I think it limits your tactical role a lot. When you have someone close to you like I said before, your dogmeat.


STK-5M STD215, 1 TAG, 5 x LRM 15 This build won't work very good when you have ppl attacking you under 180, AKA you're dogmeat then
STK-5M STD280, 4 x ML, 2 x srm6, 2 x LRM15, 1 TAG and AMS
STK-5M Balanced build IMO: STD300, 2 x LRM15, 4x ML, 1 x TAG, 2x SSRM2, AMS and BAP.

STK-5S Silly build, haven't tested yet: XL300, 4 x LRM20 (only enough ammo for 13,5 barrages in groupfire) + 1 TAG.
STK-5S XL255, 4 x Artemis LRM15, 1 x TAG, 3 x ML, AMS
STK-5S STD300, 5 x ML, 1 x TAG, 2 x LRM15 (4 tons of ammo 24 barrages with both LRMs), 2 x SSRM, 2 x AMS and 1 BAP.

One more thing, if you don't own a 3F I would recommend getting one. They have a better torse twist (85 degree instead of 60)

Edited by PPO Kuro, 04 June 2013 - 01:50 AM.

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

Welcome to the game fellow Stalker pilot.

Don't forget the 3H - unlike other Stalker chassis, it has 20 tubes on each arm and there are a number of effective 40 and 50 missile single salvo builds. It's my favourite missile platform and I have achieved good things with it.

The 5M is interesting because of the central energy slot (makes some good energy-based brawling builds) and the five missile hardpoint - but the single tube on the second torso hardpoint really limits its effectiveness (I've only ever used it for SSRM2s). I think there are better brawling builds for this chassis than there are missile builds (5xSSRM2s are great).

The 5S is expensive to buy as it comes with an XL255, which is not particularly useful in other 'Mechs. I don't feel the dual AMS offers sufficient protection to compensate. Not my cup of tea.

[Selfish]

The AWS-8R can fit 4x ALRM15s with enough ammo and fallback to really make it worth your while. It's lighter, faster, and mounts a more impressive salvo than the Stalker can produce. The Stalker variants can do something similar with a bit more fallback, armor, and ammo--but never with as much burst. Every stalker lacks the right combination of tubes+hardpoints to throw all its missiles downrange at once. This distinction is very important when it comes to refire. Once a weapon has shot all its missiles it begins to recycle. This means launchers that take multiple salvos to fire a single load of missiles will reload slower than their exact same counterparts in a mech that can fire them in one salvo. For example, an LRM10 that fires in one salvo is ready to fire faster than an LRM10 that fires in two salvos. It's the same weapon, but totally different performance because of tube size.

I'd recommend the 5S as a stalker missile boat. You can fit dual AMS (2 tons ammo minimum), which allows for trading some hits with other LRM boats. AMS was buffed fairly nicely this past patch and a dual system can nullify all but the highest loads of LRMs. The XL 255 that comes with a 5S is very useful in the Jagermech Chassis. It's essentially the mech's bread and butter engine. If you plan on going for Jagermechs at some point then don't consider it a lost purchase.

The 5M does have the extra missile hardpoint, but that point doesn't have extra tubes. It is a NARC tube (single shot) which severely hampers your refire on large LRMs. It really isn't worth it on LRM boats.

I'm not a huge fan of the 3H, but it's not an inexcusably terrible variant like, say, the 4N. You can get a bit more missiles frontloaded into your salvo because of the 20 tube ears, but the rest of your salvo is still going to be hampered by your side torso tubes. I don't find that as powerful as dual AMS, but you might.

[Goose]

Selfish, on 05 June 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

… but never with as much burst. Every stalker lacks the right combination of tubes+hardpoints to throw all its missiles downrange at once.

So why is this a worthy goal? I've long had the impression a low tube-count tightens up the spread, only for free, instead of with an Artemis system. And while AMS becomes more effective, you'd run out said AMSs' ammo faster, and the rollicking inflicted on any such target is it's own reward.

I do think NARC is there to encourage high tube-count platforms, but it hasn't gotten off the ground yet …

[Dalziel Hasek Davion]

Selfish, on 05 June 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

The XL 255 that comes with a 5S is very useful in the Jagermech Chassis. It's essentially the mech's bread and butter engine. If you plan on going for Jagermechs at some point then don't consider it a lost purchase.

Please excuse my ignorance of the Jagermech. My bad.

Quote

I'm not a huge fan of the 3H, but it's not an inexcusably terrible variant like, say, the 4N. You can get a bit more missiles frontloaded into your salvo because of the 20 tube ears, but the rest of your salvo is still going to be hampered by your side torso tubes. I don't find that as powerful as dual AMS, but you might.

Well - LRMs and AMS has been buffed again, making dual AMS more valid than it was - but effective use of cover can still protect you better than AMS on its own - and AMS is wasted tonnage in a match where your enemy didn't bring any LRMs. Let's say - personal/team preference, then.

2xLRM20s and 2xLRM5s on a STK-3H is the maximum single LRM salvo of any STK chassis, which isn't as powerful as some - but the survivability of the STK and versatility of the energy mounts makes it formidable and, returning to the OP question, it should not be dismissed as a missile platform compared to the 5S and 5M.

[Selfish]

Goose, on 05 June 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

So why is this a worthy goal? I've long had the impression a low tube-count tightens up the spread, only for free, instead of with an Artemis system. And while AMS becomes more effective, you'd run out said AMSs' ammo faster, and the rollicking inflicted on any such target is it's own reward.

I do think NARC is there to encourage high tube-count platforms, but it hasn't gotten off the ground yet …

LRM Burst is mostly important for recycle rates, and it doesn't spread your shot over a hit window of several seconds. It's more damage on target at a faster rate. You will certainly run an opponent out of AMS faster with multiple salvos, but the sooner you can get damage onto opponents the better. I find my playstyle of the 5S is more about getting consistent damage onto target, while protecting your group against enemy LRM boats. You can force them into some bad spots if they underestimate your dual AMS.

The spread/tube trick is successful with SRMs, but not so much with LRMs. Artemis doesn't just decrease LRM spread, it decreases lock times and increases tracking strength by 50%. A proper Tag+Artemis (75% bonus) is unavoidable by movement alone now, and it's quite damaging if your opponent doesn't mitigate properly.

NARC seems a little underpowered, but it's slowly getting its love. The switching of FoF is very unique, but the system just doesn't see much action.

[CECILOFS]

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 04 June 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

The 5S is expensive to buy as it comes with an XL255, which is not particularly useful in other 'Mechs.

Disagree. The XL250 is the first engine to have exactly 10 heat sinks, which is the most efficient with how DHS work. The XL255 is faster for the same weight/slots as the XL250 and therefore strictly better. If I use an XL, its always either a 300 or 255 ....well ok a 295 on the Raven 3L. Definately worth picking up.

Anyway, I use the 5S with an XL255, 4xALRM-15, 4 ML, Tag and 2 AMS. Its a cheese build in that the XL makes it really vulnerable, but you can melt people with missiles while shielding your team from theirs. I like it. If you use a standard engine you can still build a decent missile boat with medium lasers to threaten lights.

Edited by CECILOFS, 06 June 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Ogresan]

The NARC tube on the 5M hasn't been used to fire other missles for months. If you put a LRM 15 in the left torso you get 6-6-3 for volleys. With 2 LRM 15 in the left torso you get 12-12-6 for volleys as both launchers use the shown tubes at the same time.

[Goose]

Selfish, on 05 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

… it doesn't spread your shot over a hit window of several seconds.

But that's a feature: Extended rollicking of target.

Selfish, on 05 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

The spread/tube trick is successful with SRMs, but not so much with LRMs. Artemis doesn't just decrease LRM spread, it decreases lock times and increases tracking strength by 50%. A proper Tag+Artemis (75% bonus) is unavoidable by movement alone now, and it's quite damaging if your opponent doesn't mitigate properly.

I don't know about SRMs, but I think you can get the effect of Artemis with low-tube count and Beagle, often for less tonnage.

Selfish, on 05 June 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

NARC seems a little underpowered, but it's slowly getting its love. The switching of FoF is very unique, but the system just doesn't see much action.

I would think the way NARC gets knocked off by damage would promote high-tube counts.

[Moira]

While playing with XL engine and Standard engine a STK LRM boat, I now a days leen heavily on the Standard engine one. Simple reason XL tends to blow up way too early on smaller maps so you cant get enough volleys out. Sure this can be countered with someone guarding your arse from lights that so love to blow you up.

On what LRM's to use and is Artemis (and other gizmo's) worth it. Here my view on that matter.

- Artemis on current gameplay is pretty much worthless due everyone uses AMS's and thats bad for artemis.
- Dont put bigger than LRM10's to torso slots a) they seems to create more heat that you want (I could be wrong here) the firing cycle's get little funny and you need more time to get em salvos out of the torso slots.
- LRM 20's or 15's to arms, depends how you like it. I use LRM20's on arms atm to check something out, but I liked to use 1x LRM20 and 1x LRM15 on arms and 10 and 5 on torso.
- Dont ever take those 4ML's off they are literally life saver.
- Double heatsinks are lovely
- Endo or Ferro is icing on the cake and take slots I dont use em, but might test those out too. Actually Endo internals might be my next upgrade on my STK-3H.
- Narc isnt practical in current metagame
- TAG is handy, but over using it might get your arse killed due line of sight due its just 750m and that already neatly inside ER PPC's range.
- Twin AMS would be lovely but just one AMS and 2 packs ammo for it is enough
- C.A.S.E is a most I use 2x of these to store ammo on torso area.
- How to play STK-LRM boat is to soak damage from team mates due STK has decent armor as LRM boat I tend to increase it on Torso area just to keep me longer in the game

Edited by Moira, 08 June 2013 - 06:15 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Fuko ibuki, on 03 June 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

I'm new in this game and I would like to know which is the better mech, the stalker 5S or 5M for a Missile Boat build. Thanks!

3F is the best Stalker!

[bashpr0mpt]

Dalziel Hasek Davion, on 04 June 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Don't forget the 3H - unlike other Stalker chassis, it has 20 tubes on each arm and there are a number of effective 40 and 50 missile single salvo builds. It's my favourite missile platform and I have achieved good things with it.

Where are these 40 tubes hiding? I only see two little lens circles on the arms, then bugging / glitching mesh work below it, are they doors that open up? If so why have I never seen a Stalker with it's missile pod doors open? When I hit my / key I hear a clunk like doors opening on a Catapult, but I sure as hell don't see any difference on a Stalker.

Discussing it with a battle brother atm, we're trying to work out why the game limits us to graphical representation of missile tubes (and the AMS eats up our volleys if it's under 8 missiles in each salvo as it eats 8 of 10 missiles in each volley, so you need more than 10 missile tubes visible on your chassis to be effective LRM boating at all it seems).

Need more info to be able to know wtf we're dealing with as this game has little numbers / official word on things and no documentation because the devs are lazy ***** and can't even add tooltips, the players are quite literally the only learning base we have. So thanks in advance for being awesome.

[Ningyo]

A few things to remember about using the Stalker as a missile boat.

First always use at least 4xML or better energy weapons. not that you need to have backup energy on a missile boat to be effective. BUT there are plenty of other mechs that can make a better missile boat with no or minimal energy weapon backup. So if you are not going to use them, try a different mech.

Also speed and agility are not as important for a missile boat, so feel free to drop down to the 250 engine range to free up some tonnage.

If you want a better overview on using LRMs http://mwomercs.com/...-avoiding-lrms/ gives a lot of information on using them.


Personally for the Stalker I liked running this build: STK-5M LRM 25, 3 ERPPC
it carries 5x LRM5 (faster fire and smaller spread makes them about the same effectiveness as 2xALRM 20)
and 3 ERPPC (um these are just good, and help on <200m, and >800m engagements)

[RLBell]

While ripples of LRM's do extend the shaking of the target, it also extends the time available to find cover, or engage with AMS. The -3H, with the ability to launch a solid mass of fifty missiles is nothing to be sneezed at. I watched a lance worth of AMS whittle down my 50 LRM salvoes, but not enough to protect the target.

[Plaguetongue]

Team up with a scout and build this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...42f4c4e855e09d3

all ya need to do is press the chainfire and never let go =)

[wintersborn]

Plaguetongue, on 12 October 2013 - 01:21 AM, said:

Team up with a scout and build this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...42f4c4e855e09d3

all ya need to do is press the chainfire and never let go =)

I did that build as well as all the usual A1 builds and the "Rattle Can" (6xLRM5) build is not a good damage build. but it does help suppress and get assists.

I liked the 3H better 2xLRM20's TAG + ML in both arms with Streaks in both torso's. That 40LRM salvo with Artemis and TAG is some good damage or chain fire for heat and accuracy.