50 replies to this topic

[Odins Fist]

Wookiemart, on 16 October 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

"So What's Up With All The Hiding Atlas?"

There aren't any...
Well I can say this, with all the FASTER mechs on the field the Atlas gets left behind quite a bit.
I have had many "Busch League" Pilots go all kinds of crazy in chat when I PUG, yelling and screaming that the Atlas is a coward, when in reality the scrub screaming in chat was engaging the enemy a good 20 seconds before I could get to where the scrub wanted me to be.. If you run into 4 mechs, that's your fault, not mine, and it's going to be a few seconds before I can respond quick enough to get there, again... You're fault.

I just love when some slack jaw rants about an Atlas using cover for a few seconds, I guess they don't know that the Atlas is the BIGGEST target on the map.

I guarentee players don't see many HIDING ATLAS mechs in a match, and if they are claiming they are, they probably making the mistake of not realizing that a 70 - 80 KPH Mech is going to get into position faster then a 50 - 60 KPH mech..
Leave out the Missile Boat Atlas... LRMs 180 meters kids..

Edited by Odins Fist, 16 October 2013 - 12:34 PM.

[PlzDie]

Mehlan, on 16 October 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

However it can be difficult to type when you've got multiple mechs are on your arse... a miskey can mean being crippled or death. Then of course there's reporting where the enemy is, and is going and watching the team ignore the information, or watch 1/2+ of the team chase after the spider/jenner/commando that buzzed by. By far, most most common/frequent way to die is when both teams spend 1/2 the match playing peek-a-boo and trading lrms (or worse one side..usually the other is heavy lrm and my side is light/zero). So rush in, try to distract them (chase the bug) so the big guys on my side will find some cajones and push/attack.

You don't need to type just mash the R key, allot of beeps and targets blinking in one area on the team's mini maps should get the message over. And most big guys do have the "cajones" they also got smarter where they will not commit into a fight where the team can leave them to die.
I myself only push into a fight with my Atlas in a coordinated 4 man group, this way I know I have back up and my lance mates is not going to chase after a the first light they see like a bunch of rabid dogs. In pug matches if you want to find me, I will be at the back of the line. Or I will form up with another slow assault.

Edited by Duppie1974, 16 October 2013 - 01:05 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

The reason they hang back in pug matches is you tend to only get ONE chance to commit. You are to slow to get away if you make a mistake. And in pug matches MANY times they will leave you to do alone as they pull back or do not follow at all. So basicly you have to be sure they are committed and then jump in.

[Murzao]

Pretty much entire reason is to protect their precious kdr at the expense of their w-l ratio. You even see it on these forums where some newb says 'my kdr is 3.4 but my team keeps on dying too fast', someone asks what they pilot....answer 'assault'...then you facepalm because you know that guys score is inflated from hugging the rear too much and not helping his team win by making sure teammates stay alive. Then his next post is how the MM is unfair because he's lost 10x in a row without his buddies helping him being his meatshield when he shoulda been the meatshield! Because even most mediums have 'almost' the same firepower as an assault so guess who should be taking fire...well unless the medium can matrix dodge which a lot can to serve as a distraction.

[Finn McShae]

They know I'm out there... waiting.

[Mehlan]

Duppie1974, on 16 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

You don't need to type just mash the R key, allot of beeps and targets blinking in one area on the team's mini maps should get the message over. And most big guys do have the "cajones" they also got smarter where they will not commit into a fight where the team can leave them to die.
I myself only push into a fight with my Atlas in a coordinated 4 man group, this way I know I have back up and my lance mates is not going to chase after a the first light they see like a bunch of rabid dogs. In pug matches if you want to find me, I will be at the back of the line. Or I will form up with another slow assault.

No, i've noticed that tends to work even less... I'll use a combination of both, depending on my situation...or what I THNK it is, i know i've eaten a few ac/ppc/guass shots when i've been a tad to slow.

[FearTheAmish]

Okay coming back from a break so this could have changed... But for a period there Atlases were REALLY vulnerable to LRMS, PPC's, and Gauss Rifle. So there were two main configurations 1.) Sniper Atlas with PPC's/Gauss/SRM's basically sit back and snipe away. 2.) lesser seen but effective Brawler with SSRM's, Mlas, and AC's which basically had to stay under cover till close and had to work in pairs.

[DyDrimer]

I play a Highlander alot and Victor, i would imagine the atlas hiding is the same as highlander or stalker hiding, we move so slow that when you commit to a fight your there till its over or you are over, compared to my victor which i disengage and engage all over the map. Surprising how much 20kph matters in a mech. I have to say the top 3 assault mechs are really a thinking mans mech if your playing them well, you have to go two - three steps ahead if you plan on getting out alive or do enough damage to were it was worth the death.

[Navy Sixes]

My two cents:

Atlas is really slow. So while it will kill a lot of sh*t when it gets there; it is going to get there last. To that end, Atlas drivers have to pick their routes to the front quickly and wisely. Every time you stop, back up, turn, stop, turn, look around, OK, looks clear. Go forward. Wait, stop!... Maybe I should go this way, instead... is a significant amount of time that you are not bringing all those weapons to bear. Being able to look at a battlemap and see how the battle is forming is one of those "tactical awareness" skills that twitch players don't get hot-roding around in other FPS. Understanding where to point that 100 tons and getting it there ASAP is one of those things that good Atlas-drivers can do. Great Atlas drivers always make you feel like they're just over the ridge or around the last hill; somehow they're always only seconds away...

If you are in an assault taking cover from enemy fire, good for you! But remember how we started at 12v12? Well now it's 10v12, their favor. Good thing you're under cover. Well done! Oops, 7v12, their favor. Just waiting on you to make your move... any time now... Wow! this is a great spot you found! They can't hit you! They probably don't even know you're here.... 4v11... Oh, noooww you want to fight....

[Xmith]

They probably prefer to fight instead of going all the way back to base. It's a long walk in an Atlas with their backs exposed to the enemy if they are in the tunnel. They would not have got very far. They expected a smaller faster mech to go disrupt cap if any were left on your team.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Atlas in PUGs: Shy fellow who doesn't want to push but to hump hills with the low mounted weaponry, some medium makes a push and maybe the atlas will follow. Does this for himself.

Atlas in 12 mans: Atlas leads the push and take all the heat and dies most likely first. Does this for the team.

Sadly PUGs aren't team based matches to most people

[Hellcat420]

i pilot mostly assault mechs, and ill tell you this, in a pug game you never lead a charge in an assault mech. if you do lead a charge it will be a one man attack 95% of the time as the rest of the pugs just hide around the corner and either get picked off one by one or steamrolled because they left their big mechs hanging in the breeze in an attempt to save their kdr.

[Shadey99]

Earlier, I watched a pair of Atlai (RS and D-DC) sit at their original cap on the new island city map (Crimson Straits? I rarely get it in map rotation, so...). They did not move from there until my team reached 670 points of 750 and the rest of their team had died. Their sole contribution up til then was missile barrages, almost all of which were out of range... When they did come out they took out a badly damaged Battlemaster, then climbed up the rise for the Kappa point.

I'm used to players 'holding back' and not advancing much, but... that was extreme...

[BIO CORE]

The idea that an Atlas should advance the front line and initiate the charge towards the enemy is based on its heavy armoring.
As many others have pointed out, this advantage in armor is quickly negated on the battlefield if the Atlas draws the fire of too many enemy Mechs at once. Poor communication may lead to team members failing to follow the Atlas and provide support, only worsening the situation.
Depending on the map, team formation, available scouting information and terrain, it may make sense for an Atlas to lead the team towards the enemy and absorb initial enemy fire.

The above is irrelevant if match making produces teams with upwards of 5 Atlases. In this case, they leisurely move straight into the enemy's position together and laugh as their barrage of death pulverizes the opposing team into a pathetic pile of radioactive ash.

[Clownwarlord]

Well atlas vanishing, yes I myself have been left *** blowing in the wind. I think is more because the player base has gotten dumber or less experienced, which ever you prefer. This would lead to assault mechs shying away from leading combat because they can't count on the pugs.

Something I have noticed though which is hilarious is because assault mechs are not leading a match but in close games you can either have a clean assault mech pop up when you have been beaten to hell. Or when the match finally gets going crazy you see an assault mech sneak up behind you and snuff your life out like an assassin.

Sadly both of these have happened to me when playing lrm boat but that is because I normally am in the back popping my rocks off.

As a suggestion, in pug games just become more aware as a player, because there really isn't anything that PGI or IGP can do about ***** players. Just like the old adage, "Can't fix stupid, and can't fight it ... it just bring you down to their level and they beat you with experience."

Edited by clownwarlord, 16 October 2013 - 05:20 PM.

[One of Little Harmony]

The reason all the Atlantes are hiding is because they're easy to hit at a long distance with ppcs/ballistics and they have no counter to sniping. They can't snipe back because of the location of their hitpoints, they're not able to move quickly to hide behind cover and they can't jump jet in order to pop tart. Really, the only hope the Atlantes have is to wait for the enemy comes to them.

[Undercover Brother]

Assaults are just for that: Assaulting a FIXED position. NOT missile-boating, NOT mixing it up in the middle of the map, etc...
In a perfect world, your lights would provide recon and mark targets for fire support.
Your heavies would be the bulk of your LRM and "direct fire" fire support units.
Your mediums are there to harrass, engage, and then fall back to DEFEND THE ASSAULTS AND HEAVIES. The Assaults take forever to reach the front, so they should be defended all the way there. Once the fight is truly underway, THEN, the Assaults should go on the offensive.

In a defensive role, Mediums should be the harassers, advancing when able. The lights should move in packs, or "hunter-killer" groups, to take down enemy recon units and strays. The heavies role as fire support never changes. Assaults in a defensive role, should NEVER move, but should still be placed near cover, and provide overlapping fields of fire.

The trick is to get others to THINK this way. If they did, PGI would have to extend the mission timer... Games could get MUCH longer...

[Adeptus Odren]

Bilbo, on 16 October 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

They may be gun shy. They quite often get left ******* in wind when their "support" evaporate like ghosts.

Pretty much this.

[Zordicron]

Ahh the Atlas. So many think it should lead the charge, run over the top and bash the enemy.

Nope.

Watch the old MW3 intro. Watch the "MW5" trailer. An Atlas does best when the enemy is busy with somthing else. Then, SURPRISFACEWRECKZ. Yeah they take a beating, but thats just to help them survive once epic smashing has commenced. Enemy target, in best circumstance, will see something smaller that they are not afraid to commit to. Like say, centurian, dragon, something pretty quick and sorta tough, but most enemy pilots will see it and think they should have a fair shot of tracking it down and beating it. Especially if it is sort of turning and trying to run around and not stand and fight.

So then, enemy pilot engages Dragon, or Cent. Enter Atlas. OH SNAP.

If you play your Atlas as LRM boat, shame on you. If you load it for "elite skillz sniper", shame on you too sniper Atlas. You can have a long range weapon, sure, but the rest better be for facewreckz.


Really, that is how an Atlas does best. Let the team bring the enemy to you, move the slow lumbering Fatlas into a position where your team can assist, or even begin the fight. then emerge and destroy, poor ******* enemy wont know what to do, where to go(except to try to escape or die trying to dent you) and obliteration occurs.



The other reason Atlas hide, is silly CoD kids come to MWO and use the trial one and are confused as to why the standard "run all over the place, especially along the edge of the map, shoot twice and run away" tactics from Halo or whatever nonsense dont work, especially in the big bad Atlas. So then, they arent sure what to do, but getting shot is bad so they hide from it. Most of them will follow, but only if you move a little slower and deliberatly. If you lead them to far, they break off and hide at nearest rocks. Like an Escort quest in other MMO games, the NPC has a path and range of contact before they stop following you.

So, it can be hard to tell which you are dealing with. However, using visual things like paints can help identify the "emerge and destroy" vs the "ONOZ HIDE" pilots.

[Mycrus]

I'm an atlas pilot - mastered ALL variants including my xl engine clown build of a boar's head...

I've also mastered several chassis (all variants) across multiple weight classes.. In fact, I've mastered all the light chassis (all variants) before locust...

That said -- 2 things why you have hiding atlai...

1 - **** poor builds that places 20 to 30 points of armor at the atlai's rear... You can't tank when yo armor is in the rear Willis....

I run 1pt Rear armor atlai - all my builds... I can face down any mech and tear it to shreds before it can even go through my 123pts of CT armor...

On my tanking builds I use big engines.. 360s... This gives to the agility to actually lead a charge...

2 - anybody, their uncle, and their pet drop bear can pilot an assault even in their very first drop... When I was a young puglet in closed beta, guess what I dropped in first... The biggest baddest mech of course which was the founders atlas...

So you have new players that are not familiar with the game taking an assault slot and staying behind the team trying to figure out why the gauss won't fire...