59 replies to this topic

[627]

Aym, on 17 October 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

Are you serious? In-engine heat sinks being the only "true" doubles is a huge BUFF to light mechs. They use almost nothing BUT "true" doubles, it's a nerf to assaults and heavies that now all take Endo to get a bigger engine, no one stuffs their builds full of DHS anymore.

This is only true for engines with 250 rating or above.

Every engine below that will have external HS and guess what, those 3-4 external DHS on a locust (with 170 to 190 engines) are 1.4x and not true 2.0 - So _actually_ it is a nerf for _light_ mechs.

[Almond Brown]

Pale Jackal, on 16 October 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

I must say, I am astounded by how awful SHS are.

Just bought a Spider 5V to go through the tiresome grind of leveling up trash 'mechs, though I do appreciate the speed buff in yesterday's patch, and didn't buy DHS or Endo-steel for my Spider yet because, hey, how much heat can two medium lasers generate?

Evidently, when 10 SHS dissipates about 1% heat every 2 seconds while moving on Terra Therma, those medium lasers generate a lot of heat.

I had no 'mech efficiencies either, but wow, I feel for all the noobs who want to play MWO. I knew it was bad, I didn't know it was THAT bad.

You do realize that Terra Therma's ambient temperature is 208.4 degrees Fahrenheit right?

Alistair Winter, on 16 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

My favourite part is when you're waiting for the heat levels to drop down to 20-30% again.

"Oops, overheating already? Well, I'll just wait a little bit.... and some more... and... I'll just... ok, a bit more, I guess? Hmm, it's down to 90%. Great."

I didn't consider that buying 6 mechs also meant that I immediately had to fork out 7,5 million C-bills on DHS just to avoid self-combustion when I fired a few lasers.

Did you "fork over" the C-Bills for your other Mechs? Why did you think the new ones would be any different? I liked the fact that we got some XL engines in this set.

[Roadbeer]

Kmieciu, on 17 October 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

Your ELO does not go down just because you are in a crappy mech.

I refuse to acknowledge anything you say until you learn the difference between ELO and Elo.

[Mechteric]

Just say no to SHS. DHS is what mechs crave.

[General Taskeen]

CapperDeluxe, on 17 October 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

Just say no to SHS. DHS is what mechs crave.

Mech craves more heat capacity, is what you actually mean.

Just say no to PGI's Heat Sink Design Philosophy.

[Trauglodyte]

Not sure that I agree with the OP. I've leveled up many mechs using tier 1 tech and, while not efficient, it is doable. Furthermore, I'm leveling up my Locust-1V(P) and all it has is a Lrg Laser with 11 SHSs and 2 MGs. You can't just blast away with the Lrg Laser full bore every time it comes off of cool down but that is more the penalty of the map than anything. Should be a clear indicator when, with 11 SHSs, I'm sitting at 15% of my threshhold just running around.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 October 2013 - 03:58 AM, said:

So video gamers don't want to use skill? Is that what you are saying? Cause I don't know about those games but if I was to try to fire my M-16 when I was running, I would indeed have a cone of fire. I would also stake my rep on RL combat vehicles being more accurate stationary than they are when mobile. With exception of guided missiles of course.

Skill and exciting gameplay come from fast movement. If you play CoD, it's really easy to demolish immobile targets with your perfect aiming and the aim assist.

If you play quake 3, well... No one has ever taken the ironsight generation off shooters seriously, or done any actual competitive movements for them. I'll just leave it at that. People were getting paid to be flown around the world to play unreal, quake, and counter-strike. Battlefield? Call of duty? Pfft.

[Davers]

My only *real* problem with heat and ECM is that it makes stock builds pretty useless.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 17 October 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

Skill and exciting gameplay come from fast movement. If you play CoD, it's really easy to demolish immobile targets with your perfect aiming and the aim assist.

If you play quake 3, well... No one has ever taken the ironsight generation off shooters seriously, or done any actual competitive movements for them. I'll just leave it at that. People were getting paid to be flown around the world to play unreal, quake, and counter-strike. Battlefield? Call of duty? Pfft.

So the answer to my question is...Yes?

[Aym]

627, on 17 October 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

This is only true for engines with 250 rating or above.

Every engine below that will have external HS and guess what, those 3-4 external DHS on a locust (with 170 to 190 engines) are 1.4x and not true 2.0 - So _actually_ it is a nerf for _light_ mechs.

LOL. Good one mate, next you'll tell me you'd prefer your 3-4 external heat sinks to be better than your 6-7 internal... wait, you ARE telling me that? I'm so very confused by your motives, do you want MORE effective heat sinks or less? Please show me the Locust build that would benefit from your "buff" (read as nerf) to lights with inverted heat sinks.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 October 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

So the answer to my question is...Yes?

I'm saying reality has nothing to do with videogames.

[General Taskeen]

Davers, on 17 October 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

My only *real* problem with heat and ECM is that it makes stock builds pretty useless.

Which I can only fathom as done on purpose. After all, the heat sink philosophy and ecm is "purposeful" as defined by the lead designers of this game. They have really done a great job of ruining stock builds, because of it. I mean by on purpose, by not thinking it through in a design process point of view.

It really ****** me off too, since I loved using stock builds in MW3, and SHS worked perfectly fine in that one. MW:LL also has stock builds with SHS. MW4 just had "heatsinks" generically, although I think MW2 had proper heat-sinks as well.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 17 October 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I'm saying reality has nothing to do with videogames.

I disagree with you just a bit. Some reality makes a game more believable is some cases.

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 October 2013 - 09:27 AM, said:

I disagree with you just a bit. Some reality makes a game more believable is some cases.

Ironsight gameplay isn't believable. You're not a soldier in Napoleon's time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 17 October 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Ironsight gameplay isn't believable. You're not a soldier in Napoleon's time.

I wasn't in the Napoleonic times with the Marines but the M-16 was qualified on using Iron sights! As a Grunt I never trained using anything other than Iron sights. So again Skillz???

[Vassago Rain]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 October 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

I wasn't in the Napoleonic times with the Marines but the M-16 was qualified on using Iron sights! As a Grunt I never trained using anything other than Iron sights. So again Skillz???

You don't get rooted to the spot when you aim your rifle in the real world, and if you're actually lining up a shot, you won't be standing to begin with.

And it still doesn't make for fun games, which is why no one has ever held a CoD tournament that anyone cared about.

[Joseph Mallan]

Vassago Rain, on 17 October 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

You don't get rooted to the spot when you aim your rifle in the real world, and if you're actually lining up a shot, you won't be standing to begin with.

And it still doesn't make for fun games, which is why no one has ever held a CoD tournament that anyone cared about.

I would beg to differ, cause you sorta just contradicted yourself. If you are aiming you do stop, sit or lay down for better firing position (ie root to the ground) Iron sights or not, if you are moving you will not aim as well as you can standing/sitting still.

[Kmieciu]

During the "friends and family" beta the Devs found out that that if you convert TT weapon and armor values into a FPS game and apply perfect "dynamic" weapon convergence players will be able to one-shot one another and the game is not fun. (no **** Sherlock)

They could have altered the convergence mechanic: either remove it, or slow it down, or let the player set it manually for a fixed range*. If 9 medium lasers hit 9 different spots the Swayback wouldn't be able to one-shot each end every mech. They could enforce chain fire by disabling group fire.

Instead they chose to double the armor, increase the heat on several weapons, increase the heat capacity. Those choices led to "high alpha" gameplay which had to be fought with "ghost heat". That's why you cannot use 2 ML on terra therma with 10 SHS, but any mech with 6 ML and 18 DHS is quite capable.


*/Those of you who played Warthunder know that a Spitfire has 12 machineguns on it's wings and you can set the convergence manually at 50-800 meters. It is an absolute beast at the convergence range, but outside of it it's just spray and pay.
And BTW: every weapon in Warthunder has COF (wchich you can somewhat reduce by leveling your aircraft to something like 5 meters at 500 meters) and nobody is accusing this game of being devoid of skill. The skill requirement is even higher because you have to take the convergence range into account.

Edited by Kmieciu, 17 October 2013 - 10:38 AM.

[Corvus Antaka]

DHS are a direct upgrade in technology as per btech.

tuning dissapation to be improved all around AND cutting the heatcap on doubles while allowing singles to push the cap up higher could be an interesting solution.

even simply buffing SHS by 25% would be ok imho, they'd still be worthless, but at least rookies wouldnt be so brutally gimped.

[Roadbeer]

So SHS would be 1.25 and DHS would be 1.4?

Or are you talking about keeping it in scale and have internal SHS 1.25 and external .8? Otherwise SHS becomes OP

Don't think these things through, do you guys?