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Solo Queue Is Needed


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Poll: solo queue (119 member(s) have cast votes)

keep it simple: yes/no

  1. yes (70 votes [58.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 58.82%

  2. no (49 votes [41.18%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.18%

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#41 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:00 AM

View PostAgent 0 Fortune, on 16 October 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:


If you pug the only effect it would have on you is narrowing the Elo range you drop with, make matches much more competative, better weight balanced and speed up the matchmaker. It is difficult to comprhend why a pug player would not be in favor of a dedicated queue.

The viewpoint you present is that of a pre-made player, and in fact match setup times woudl be much longer without being able to pull in PUG players of wildly diffeirng Elo scores to fill the cracks. I'm not saying this isnt' a valid point of view, it just isn't how you represented yourself.

I don't see how a solo queue would do some of these things? I we are not talking to one another and being placed into a match randomly, wouldn't the results be nearly the same weight wise? I have 4 Mechs 2 Atlas an Orion and Jenner-D (S). I drop in the Jenner to get the bonus, the Orion to pretend I have a Marauder and Atlases to kick the enemy's backside.

#42 WVAnonymous

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:10 AM

View PostPurlana, on 16 October 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:


Nah PUGs rarely listen. If you call a RTB, they expect an Atlas to go back and defend against 3 lights so they can pad their K/D ratio.


Or I'm in a 56 kph Highlander about 2 kilometers away from our base, while you gripe about how pugs don't listen to RTB requests. I only pug (actually I own a pug :) ) and I see people promptly RTB all the time. I also see these "mighty" four man teams get wiped off the map by all of us disorganized pugs on a regular basis.

I admit we all see the 12-8 matches sometimes where a really good four man team had most of the kills and they all lived, but I see that a lot less frequently than I see pugs with 3+ kills 3+ assists and match scores over 100.

BTW, I want to pad my W/L ratio, not my K/D ratio.

#43 Roadbeer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 09:14 AM

4 man success usually has to do with the luck of the PUG draw... IMO there are two types of PUGs. Regular and extra-derpy.

#44 Mudhutwarrior

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:19 AM

All I know is there were six or more threads related to this in the past 48 hours. They are all gone. No point in posting because only one side gets a say. Ben like that since I have been here. Special place in hell for the gatekeepers. Karma baby. count on it.

#45 DaZur

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

View PostRoadbeer, on 16 October 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

LOne Wolf PUGs are Horribad and they deserve each other for being anti-social and not forming into a group.

HEY!... I resemble that remark. :D :)

#46 Screech

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:35 AM

View PostRoadbeer, on 16 October 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Yeah, and it's the solo, Lone Wolf who rails about how bad their team is, while dead...


Huh? I never really see puggers complain after they die, they just leave. In my experience its those dead "experts" who are stuck waiting in-game until it is over that are the backseat complainers. Easiest way to see who is in a group is what they do after they die.

#47 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:38 AM

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 17 October 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

All I know is there were six or more threads related to this in the past 48 hours. They are all gone. No point in posting because only one side gets a say. Ben like that since I have been here. Special place in hell for the gatekeepers. Karma baby. count on it.

Maybe because PGI already has plans for Solo Lone Wolf players an all the QQ on the forums will not change it... From my understanding Drops will be filled by house Loyal troops, then House Loyal Mercs, then gaps filled by Lone Wolfs (ie PUGs).

#48 Roadbeer

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:45 AM

View PostMudhutwarrior, on 17 October 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

All I know is there were six or more threads related to this in the past 48 hours. They are all gone. No point in posting because only one side gets a say. Ben like that since I have been here. Special place in hell for the gatekeepers. Karma baby. count on it.


Prove it. Your penchant for exaggeration is amazing.

View PostScreech, on 17 October 2013 - 10:35 AM, said:


Huh? I never really see puggers complain after they die, they just leave. In my experience its those dead "experts" who are stuck waiting in-game until it is over that are the backseat complainers. Easiest way to see who is in a group is what they do after they die.


YMMV, my experience is the exact opposite.

#49 Ghogiel

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:47 AM

View PostAdiuvo, on 16 October 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

Look at the Comstar NA and EU TS. Look at at the Creddit TS. Look at Lowtax, Kong, whatever... those are these scary premades people complain about. Most of them are just random people who get together for a few matches to have fun. The majority are not groups who run around in 4 Highlanders all day.

lol at least pick premades who are actually scarey.

#50 Adridos

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:48 AM

View PostHomeless Bill, on 16 October 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

The playerbase isn't large enough and it would take even longer to find matches.


Not true. If true, then we're ****** anyway, so yeah... :)

Mixing the Pugs and premades makes for a **** tier experience for both sides. One side is fighting a fool's crusade, since the game doesn't (for some extremely idiotic decision) offer any way of usable communications with your teammates, which is a big thing in a ******* team game. The second side is playing with 2/3s of the team composed of people they can make no coordination with and who are, due to how this simple logic that even a 5 year old could easily get works, inevitably going to suck.

Yeah, you're either stuck playing with "idiots" or you're stuck playing with "idiots". Win-win for both sides... like totally.

SOMETHING HAS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT. LIKE, SERIOUSLY.

Soccer is not popular because only 1/3rd of the team is allowed to wear shoes and the rest is inevitable unable to kick the ball or even run properly. Chess is not popular, because you have to come in a suit, otherwise all your second-rate (rooks and knihts) pieces turn into pawns.

People on both sides do leave the game, because of either reason (it's not challenging enough, it's decided by a lottery of teammate's mechs, it's no fun fighting someone who has more options due to using 3rd company programs [which, by the way, is on the very same level as aim bots and such and other game designers actually either make this junk ban-able, or do some precautions against it... meaningful ones, not ones that don't solve the issue, but also **** off the other group {like the 4 man only requirement... makes as much sense as removing aiming from the game due to aimbots}]).

#51 Nik Van Rhijn

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:48 AM

Have they changed things then? I thought that the only organised groups were going to be mercs, all others are PUGs whether House or unaffiliated (Lone Wolves).

#52 Novakaine

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:50 AM

Someone told me learn to play.
So I did.

#53 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:50 AM

View PostNik Van Rhijn, on 17 October 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

Have they changed things then? I thought that the only organised groups were going to be mercs, all others are PUGs whether House or unaffiliated (Lone Wolves).

This is sorta true I guess, until loyalty it earned and a House Unit is chosen.

#54 Adiuvo

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:55 AM

View PostGhogiel, on 17 October 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

lol at least pick premades who are actually scarey.

Yeah, except there aren't many of those. Most of the time people are too busy playing 12s, and when they're playing 4s they {Richard Cameron} around.

The majority and just random pugs who decide they did not want to pug and thus hopped in Comstar's waiting to drop channel.

#55 Purlana

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 10:59 AM

4 mans are for fooling around and leveling mechs....

#56 WarHippy

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:04 AM

View PostKutfroat, on 16 October 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

just this. let premades try to inflate their elo lvl by farming other premades. it works for league of legends, so make it work here. can´t be this hard. i´m fine with waiting longer. at least matches will have the chance to be balanced and fun.

Disregarding your initial statement as petty juvenile nonsense; I would like to comment that you are mistaken about how this works in League. In League they do not separate pugs from premades in the normal queue. In normal you can have a team of anywhere from 2-5 players with pugs to fill the remaining spots if needed. In ranked they still have premades even in the solo queue; however the premades are limited to 2 people. Given that MWO doesn't currently have anything that would compare to ranked play in League we should be striving for something similar to their normal games, and that would be to allow for teams to consist of 2-12 players with pugs to fill the gaps.

#57 Homeless Bill

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:08 AM

View PostAgent 0 Fortune, on 17 October 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

I'm going to try to expalain this a little better, using the examples you posted. If you have 1000 players on and 100 in the appropriate Elo range, then the matchmaker can grab 24 for of those that are all adjacent making a instant match were every player is the same Elo rating.
Whereas if there is a group involved, the players on teh same group may not (are probably not) in the same Elo bracket, and the matchmaker now has to find another group with similar composition, which it cannot, so it grabs pugs from all over the Elo bracket to match Elo scores.

This is why you see so many matches that end 12-0, 12-1, 12-2; and why you see such disparity in tonnage. Pre-made groups force the matchmaker to broaden it search criteria out of the gate, because premade groups can bring in varied Elo pilots and can force a weight class disparity.

To simplify this evenfurhter. If you have ever bought a variety back of anything, you know there is always some things in the variety pack that you don't want, and if the option were available to you it would always be more beneficial be able to purchase the variety items individually and pick just the items you want. this is the same dilemma the matchmaker faces every match there is a group (which is to say almost ever match).

As for where I came up with this conclustion, it is simple, I read the dev posts, where Matt Craig specifically states, Premade groups are harder to match, and all the adjustments to the matchmaker algorithm to make closer matches were undone.

There are a number strawmen arguements being set up here, so I will try to reiterate the pro position clearly.

PUGs want a seperate queue to:
1. speed up the matchmaker
2. get closer Elo matching
3. get closer weight class matching
4. more variety in mechs and tactics

We don't believe that pre-made teams are inherently evil (I do play premade teams as well).
We don't believe that pre-made teams are responsible for lopsided matches, this is an Elo balance issue putting high and low Elo player s together in the same match and failing to match weight class.

Again, I completely disagree that it will speed up anything. Better matches? Probably not, but perhaps. I think you drastically underestimate what halving the size of a queue will do. Additionally, when he says "harder to match," I suspect he means harder to find a good match (not takes a lot longer to match (at least now that they told the matchmaker to stop being picky)).

Because of the varying compositions of premades, you will indeed get massive tonnage imbalances. But for Elo it just averages their ranks and looks for something around that.

Based on what I've seen, it really doesn't care about tonnage very much, particularly when premades are involved, and Elo is a relatively easy thing to match. I'm not saying it results in particularly balanced fights, but it certainly results in faster matches.

You're completely ignoring the huge effect a smaller queue would have, particularly at odd hours when not a lot of people are on. Halving the player pool would have far greater an impact than the removal of whatever premade calculations are being done in the matchmaker.

Add that to the fact that it would basically kill matchmaking for premades. Without tonnage limits, it would be impossible to build fair matches during off-peak times. And how would it deal with odd group numbers? It would take forever to set anything up, if it even had enough groups of the proper size to make a match at all.

I just see absolutely no logic behind the assertion that giving the matchmaker fewer options to pick from will result in it speeding up. And again, speed is all I care about at this point. I'm often waiting 3 or 4 minutes to find a match these days, and it's killing me.

#58 Deathlike

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:29 AM

View PostHomeless Bill, on 17 October 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I just see absolutely no logic behind the assertion that giving the matchmaker fewer options to pick from will result in it speeding up. And again, speed is all I care about at this point. I'm often waiting 3 or 4 minutes to find a match these days, and it's killing me.


Your ELO is too high. Nerf it with the following mechs:
Locust
Trebuchet
Dragon
Awesome

Edited by Deathlike, 17 October 2013 - 11:30 AM.


#59 Deathlike

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:52 AM

View PostHomeless Bill, on 16 October 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

I totally can because everything needs a cost/benefit analysis. Would I like better matches? Yes. Would I be willing to wait an additional minute or two for the matchmaker to find them? No.


Isn't it somewhat kinda selfish to expect that waiting a little longer for a match is a bad thing? Yes, I want to get those c-bills faster like the next guy, but playing better doesn't make the MM's job easier.

It's worse to me that having spent that time, I'm being roflstomped or doing the roflstomping. It doesn't feel like grinding, but being more aware of the woeful nature of the MM because I'm not getting an enjoyable experience.

Quote

I'd like all of those things, but after coming back from my break, the matchmaker takes almost 2 minutes on average to find me a match. I hate waiting. I'd rather get steamrolled every now and then than waste a match of time every three of four matches.


It's the 2 minute penalty. Welcome to high ELO.

Quote

It's about balance, and my opinion is that a PUG-only queue isn't worth it. I'd rather see a new game mode than a separate queue. It's just not that big of a deal. I PUG, and I still maintain a decent WLR. The PUG life is hard, but people need to cowboy up or get in a 4-man.


Well, it's probably true with the state of the game. Perhaps a ladder and non-ladder queue would be better? I dunno... it would be nicer to improve the new user experience so the queues would at least increase instead of the "buy MC or suffer" syndrome.

The entire solo vs premade thing is a lot more mental than it is an actual issue. If people were willing to communicate and listen, you wouldn't have so many lopsided games, where people get picked off on their own and never realize that focus firing is the key to success. Oh wait, I thought there were tutorials for this... my bad.

#60 Purlana

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Posted 17 October 2013 - 11:54 AM

I expect that when CW comes most of the pre-mades will be too busy to play with you guys anyway. (Unless they can't field 12)

Edited by Purlana, 17 October 2013 - 11:54 AM.






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