51 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Aym, on 18 October 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Large Pulse Lasers are the only ones that anyone bothers to make an argument for. Small pulse lasers aren't awful, it's just hard to trade 3 times the range that you could get with a Medium Laser for the same tonnage and crit slot. Medium pulse need loving badly.

Yup. And Large Pulse Lasers are only worth using when you've got tonnage and too few hardpoints to just pack on Medium Lasers as functionally 1LPL = 2ML.

Medium Pulse Lasers are objectively bad weapons.

Small Pulse Lasers are cute, but it's really hard to find situations where such a short ranged weapon is an advantage - why wait until facelicking range to start firing - even at higher DPS - when you could have shot them a couple times at several times the range(ML) and do more damage total.

Pulse lasers need a severe rethinking, IMHO. I'd like to see their range extended to just a little shorter than their parent laser. Make the LPL an upgunned LL, instead of a huge Medium Laser, etc.

[Pht]

Lasers do their damage in really really short packets of time during their "on" duration. That's why they can spread damage.

[Sadistic Savior]

Aym, on 18 October 2013 - 03:01 PM, said:

Large Pulse Lasers are the only ones that anyone bothers to make an argument for. Small pulse lasers aren't awful, it's just hard to trade 3 times the range that you could get with a Medium Laser for the same tonnage and crit slot. Medium pulse need loving badly.

Small pulse is more heat efficient. Thats part of the tradeoff...lower range, better heat/damage ratio.

[42and19]

Putting in a plug for medium pulse lasers.

They are good for lighter mechs. Because they can deal their damage in a shorter amount of time they reduce the amount of time you expose yourself to enemy fire. As a striker this is vital to survival. My jenner-d runs 4 mplas and, as Aym can attest through several screenshots I have posted on the marik gunfighters site I have had many matches with 6 or more kills and 600 or more damage. This is mainly because I am able to run in, alpha and run out much faster than I could if I were running medium lasers. Also the alpha is 4 damage higher.

Range isn't an issue when you are flanking and moving at 150 kph and heat isn't an issue if you are alpha striking once or twice and running away to cool down.

Now, this is a very specific example. I wouldn't run this on a jenner-f for example, since you could stack 6 ML for less tonnage and more damage. Or on anything heavier than a cicada since most of those mechs don't rely as much on hit and run tactics and if they do than they can typically stack better weaponry.

Edited by 42and19, 20 October 2013 - 06:52 PM.

[Aym]

42 we have to talk about your build, I might try it out lol.

[Mao of DC]

Wintersdark, on 18 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

Yup. And Large Pulse Lasers are only worth using when you've got tonnage and too few hardpoints to just pack on Medium Lasers as functionally 1LPL = 2ML.

Medium Pulse Lasers are objectively bad weapons.

Small Pulse Lasers are cute, but it's really hard to find situations where such a short ranged weapon is an advantage - why wait until facelicking range to start firing - even at higher DPS - when you could have shot them a couple times at several times the range(ML) and do more damage total.

Pulse lasers need a severe rethinking, IMHO. I'd like to see their range extended to just a little shorter than their parent laser. Make the LPL an upgunned LL, instead of a huge Medium Laser, etc.

Well assuming they use TT as a base. The clan versions of the pulse lasers have the same ranges as the Inner Sphere version of normal lasers. With less weight and slots. For example the Clan mplas weight 1 ton and use 1 critical slot. The Clans don't use normal lasers they use ER versions of all 3 classes of lasers.

[nexus1g]

Mao of DC, on 21 October 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Well assuming they use TT as a base. The clan versions of the pulse lasers have the same ranges as the Inner Sphere version of normal lasers. With less weight and slots. For example the Clan mplas weight 1 ton and use 1 critical slot. The Clans don't use normal lasers they use ER versions of all 3 classes of lasers.

This is a simulator, not a TT game. Completely different game altogether despite the fiction being the same, so, as is evidenced in this conversation, you can't expect almost any of the mechanics to transfer smoothly.

Edited by nexus1g, 22 October 2013 - 05:28 AM.

[Mao of DC]

nexus1g, on 22 October 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

This is a simulator, not a TT game. Completely different game altogether despite the fiction being the same, so, as is evidenced in this conversation, you can't expect almost any of the mechanics to transfer smoothly.

I think in this instance we can safely assume that the TT rules will transfer into this game, if only to form a base for the weapons in game stats.

[nexus1g]

Mao of DC, on 22 October 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

I think in this instance we can safely assume that the TT rules will transfer into this game, if only to form a base for the weapons in game stats.

No, not for this instance.

Your argument is invalid because the mechanics you're talking about clearly did not transfer.You can go look at the weapon stats yourself and see the mechanics are not as you argue.

[Mao of DC]

nexus1g, on 22 October 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

No, not for this instance.

Your argument is invalid because the mechanics you're talking about clearly did not transfer.You can go look at the weapon stats yourself and see the mechanics are not as you argue.

So what you are saying is that cannot make a Clan MPLas weight 1 ton and take up 1 slot come on, really?

[nexus1g]

Mao of DC, on 23 October 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

So what you are saying is that cannot make a Clan MPLas weight 1 ton and take up 1 slot come on, really?

Being capable of doing something, and it making sense them doing it within this game's mechanics are two entirely different things.

Let's say they released a Clan MPLas. First of all, anyone can use any lasers in this game regardless of the player's fealty. That completely removes the need for a Clan-specific MPLas.

Since a "Clan" MPLas could be used by everyone per this game's mechanics, it would deprecate the current MPLas in use.

Such a change would also likely unbalance the MPLas since it would have the range of a normal MLas without heat penalty.

Again, mechanics from a TT game don't transfer to a simulator.

[Alaskan Nobody]

nexus1g, on 22 October 2013 - 05:21 AM, said:

This is a simulator, not a TT game. Completely different game altogether despite the fiction being the same, so, as is evidenced in this conversation, you can't expect almost any of the mechanics to transfer smoothly.

nexus1g, on 23 October 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Being capable of doing something, and it making sense them doing it within this game's mechanics are two entirely different things.

Let's say they released a Clan MPLas. First of all, anyone can use any lasers in this game regardless of the player's fealty. That completely removes the need for a Clan-specific MPLas.

Since a "Clan" MPLas could be used by everyone per this game's mechanics, it would deprecate the current MPLas in use.

Such a change would also likely unbalance the MPLas since it would have the range of a normal MLas without heat penalty.

Again, mechanics from a TT game don't transfer to a simulator.

It helps if you actually give the reasons for your statement, rather than making a blanket statement like the first post
Blanket statements get argued with, if only because there are exceptions to every rule, and blanket statements ignore the potential of those.

[nexus1g]

Shar Wolf, on 23 October 2013 - 05:32 PM, said:

It helps if you actually give the reasons for your statement, rather than making a blanket statement like the first post
Blanket statements get argued with, if only because there are exceptions to every rule, and blanket statements ignore the potential of those.

I suppose I trust too much that people will use the sense they're born with rather than argue for the sake of arguing.

[Alaskan Nobody]

nexus1g, on 23 October 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

I suppose I trust too much that people will use the sense they're born with rather than argue for the sake of arguing.

"What is obvious to the blind may be invisible to those with sight"

Just because it is obvious to you doesn't mean it is actually obvious.
Take ghost heat for example, apparently that was logical and obvious to the developers.

[Mao of DC]

The balance to such powerful weapons would be, less mechs on the field of battle. The Inner Sphere units are based on the Lance, 4 mechs. Clan unit are based on the Star, 5 mechs. So 12 v 10, the reason the Devs need to get the asymmetrical combat in the game before they release clan mechs. Clans like to fight outnumbered so they can prove their worth as warriors, at least in this part of the timeline.

Edited for spelling.

Edited by Mao of DC, 23 October 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[Void Angel]

nexus1g, on 16 October 2013 - 04:35 PM, said:

Thanks. The minimum damage you answered wasn't exactly what I was looking for. The presumption was meant to be there that I at least hit a component.

It is also possible to sweep a laser across your target so fast that it does no damage. I believe that the laser must be held on the target somewhere for an entire tick in order for damage to be dealt. If you sweep it across their 'mech as though you were trying to shake water at them out of a garden hose, they'll take no damage. This will trigger their hit alarms, so it can be useful to warn teammates about people in close pursuit of you.

[nexus1g]

Shar Wolf, on 23 October 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

"What is obvious to the blind may be invisible to those with sight"

Just because it is obvious to you doesn't mean it is actually obvious.
Take ghost heat for example, apparently that was logical and obvious to the developers.

I'm not saying that anything is obvious; however, I don't make excuses for lazy thinkers or those who just wish to eke out some minimal victory by being willfully ignorant.

[Aym]

Nexus, Mao, there are plenty of threads arguing about why Clan mechanics will or will not work in MWO. This is not one of them.

[nexus1g]

Aym, on 24 October 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Nexus, Mao, there are plenty of threads arguing about why Clan mechanics will or will not work in MWO. This is not one of them.

Ha, that's funny. But my thread to derail. The initial question's already been answered anyway.

Edited by nexus1g, 24 October 2013 - 12:55 AM.

[Aym]

If it's going to be derailed, we should talk about how one cannot own a thread they started on the interweb by it's very nature ;-)


Also I'd posit that we have in fact not answered the question, we are not sure HOW the damage is divided, OR if pulse lasers are worth taking ;-)