45 replies to this topic

[Slepnir]

12 man teams=epic fail, here is why: many groups of friends are playing in odd numbers, making it either 4 or 12 eliminates the ability for them to play together when there is an odd man out. even that aside assuming you have enough to form a full 12 man-you can almost NEVER find a match unless it is pre-planned, otherwise if you do end up finding a group. you end up playing the same group or 2 over and over again. then the team meta loadout changers start and it gets stupid. its just faster and easier to make a 4 man and drop into a match and hope you get pared with another team or PUGs that are halfway decent players.

[Sandpit]

im not sure what your poll is trying to accomplish...?

[MadcatX]

Sandpit, on 04 November 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

im not sure what your poll is trying to accomplish...?

Isn't obvious!? The 12-man casual scene is going...

12-man casual...

those exist!?

[Kenyon Burguess]

12man is rough, I don't play it, but I respect those that do. bring your best mech, with an OP build and being prepared on TS isn't that much to ask of a community interested in owning a planet.

Sandpit, on 04 November 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

im not sure what your poll is trying to accomplish...?

this topic reads like he wants everyone to be a "winner" and earn a medal for a poor effort.

Edited by Geist Null, 04 November 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[Sandpit]

so wait...........

the OP is REALL complaining about 12 mans?? WTF would you care how someone else plays the game when it has absolutey ZERO impact on your game play? Holy **** thins are getting bad. Next we are gin to see posts complaining that people playing BF4 should not because it impacts the number of players here.

Seriously, stop whining and play the game. Stop with all the "premades are evil and hurt my feelings when they win", "remove this map because I no likes it" "Nerf this weapon cuz it impedes muh elite skillz and killz" "Stop letting people shoot at meh while they are jumping because it's not fair that they can shoo me and I don't have the intelligence or skill to use cover and shoot back" threads.....

This is just beyond ridiculous at this point. Stop blaming the game, weapon, tactics, premades, (insert whatever excuse here), instead of your own personal skill and strategy when you lose.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

you step into 12 mans you better bring your A game. Because the other side sure is!

And yes stomps happen alot. But it is the learning curve all over again (but steeper) and when you learn the builds to bring and the com discipline to keep it gets better. And pugging builds do not work against good teams, they are too hot usually.

But CW should help, because it will bring more people in and hopefully ease the learning curve a bit as more varied leveled teams enter the fray.

Anyways there is no real reason to complain about 12's much right now. Most people who step in know what they are getting into ATM.

[Hellcat420]

Nekomimi2, on 16 October 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Hello,
I would like to alert you to the problem appearing for pugs and casual
players now. I have witnessed and extreme lack of enjoyment in the 12 mans.
So much so that people no longer play them unless they are a competitive
team. The pug answer was to try to sync drop three 4 man lances and even
thought they did not get to play together they were having fun and being
successful.
I played with two different non-competitive groups in 12 mans. One group
in a random Comstar TS dropship and another in a large corporation. Both
times I witnessed the groups not being able to win, not being able to get
even one kill through several matches. So what this means is the 12 man
drops have become competitive team only. Pugs and casual teams are now
effectively shut out of 12 mans. Who wants to play if you are going to
loose every single time.
How is this going to affect community warfare? You really to look at this or you could lose a lot of discouraged new players. The fact that I saw people stop playing and avoid 12 mans is disturbing.
Nekomimi2

-1

[Goose]

Twelve-man = sod+om+me, and CW is a non-starter …

Will anyone even care about Twelve-man once Deathmatch gets here?

Edited by Goose, 05 November 2013 - 06:56 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Be happy there is a skill imbalance. What kind of game would you want to play where team work, tactics, practice and innate skill made very little difference? I'm glad it makes a lot of difference.

Hopefully battlelines and certain planets in the planetary will create their own Tiers...as in "don't Go to the Alshain sector, unless you want to die."

[Effectz]

Casual 12 man's will never be effective in 12 mans unless they play together regularly,but then that isn't casual is it.

[Rushin Roulette]

Nekomimi2, on 16 October 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Hello,
I would like to alert you to the problem appearing for pugs and casual
players now. I have witnessed and extreme lack of enjoyment in the 12 mans.
So much so that people no longer play them unless they are a competitive
team. The pug answer was to try to sync drop three 4 man lances and even
thought they did not get to play together they were having fun and being
successful.
I played with two different non-competitive groups in 12 mans. One group
in a random Comstar TS dropship and another in a large corporation. Both
times I witnessed the groups not being able to win, not being able to get
even one kill through several matches. So what this means is the 12 man
drops have become competitive team only. Pugs and casual teams are now
effectively shut out of 12 mans. Who wants to play if you are going to
loose every single time.
How is this going to affect community warfare? You really to look at this or you could lose a lot of discouraged new players. The fact that I saw people stop playing and avoid 12 mans is disturbing.
Nekomimi2

You see... this is the EXACT reason why the 12-player (well 8 player back then) format was added. PUG players were tired of being roflstomped by 8 player premade teams against their own uncoordinated PUGS, premades were tired of roflstomping PUGs when they were (Sometimes) actively trying to play against a different 8 player premade.

Now you start a thread complaining that 12 player premade mode is not for uncoordinated PUG players... well you are correct, it isnt. However, if you 12 players stick together long enough to get to know each others play styles, tactics and loadouts, then you will get better.

If you seriously want to get better results in the 12 player queue, then try to organise evenings where you drop against a team with whom you can communicate (probably via the same TS erver). After each game, get together in 1 channel and go over the last match and listen to what they say which made winning for them easy or why they lost against you. This way you will quickly get a hang of which tactics/loadouts/play styles work for you and why the others dont work.

P. S. in before some teams just cheese, yes you will get those opponents, but they are far from unbeatable. If you are up agaisnt a team with 300-400 tons more than you... then use positioning, speed and firing funnels/lines/paraboles to your advantage.

[Enzane]

There is currently a High Skill level during specific hours of the day.

Guilds run practices in 12 mans during those hours. As Rushin Roulette Points out; Those groups practice together a LOT.

So if you want to get into 12 mans, get some friends together and find a time to drop. Expect to Lose now and then, but if Winning is everything then you are playing the wrong game. This is a level playing field. You are not going to become a solo god of the battlefield.

Enjoy the game, Enjoy the fights. Look at what you CAN accomplish with your team. When we lose against those more skilled then us, we often look at how much further we've come. When we first fought them we were only able to take out 1 or 2 of their mechs. Now we take out 7 of them. Next time lets try for a victory!

Most teams are kind enough, and if you can get on a guilds Voice Server (vent TS whatever) they will happily teach you.
At least, I know my Guild will.

[Sandpit]

no, it is far easier to keep complaining. 8 mans are ruining the game! (nerf em and go through the new 3 phases of MM hell) NOW it's "12 mans are ruining the game"

Oh an don't forget 4 mans
Premades
Poptarting
PPCs
ECM
Spiders
Lights
Maps
Game Modes
Economy
Trial Mechs
I could keep goin. It's much easier to whine and complain that those are the reasons people lose as opposed to taking ownership of bad tactics and such

[Harmatia]

Half the time I'm matched to a team with people that appear completely clueless. You don't need voice communication, or even text telling people to do this or that. All you need is experience and logic. Stay together, don't chase lights, don't half the team turn back because one or two enemies tripped the base alarm and leave the other half to die at the hands of the enemy. Analyze and determine which mech in a group of enemies is the biggest threat and take them down first. Don't make yourself the centre of attention if you're not designed to do so.

I cannot count how many times my team has been completely rolled because of any one of those things. Last night I watched 5 players on my team chasing a Spider for most of the match. It should be obvious that when 1 enemy mech is able to draw 5 friendly mechs away from the front lines, that team is going to be at serious disadvantage during main combat and probably lose. Which we did. That kind of stuff is just common sense. It has little to do with MWO other than it uses it to great length. This is basic ****.

[Ingvay]

I'll add that only having 12v12 drops is pretty dam silly... you should still be able to form 8 man teams and also choose 8v8 drops if you want. It's silly to only allow 4 or 12 man groups. Sigh....

[Sandpit]

Ingvay, on 05 November 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

I'll add that only having 12v12 drops is pretty dam silly... you should still be able to form 8 man teams and also choose 8v8 drops if you want. It's silly to only allow 4 or 12 man groups. Sigh....

No, it's silly to limit people being able to group up and play a team game in any way, shape, or form. period

[Fabe]

Sandpit, on 05 November 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

No, it's silly to limit people being able to group up and play a team game in any way, shape, or form. period

I think I might have to agree with this. All the match maker has to do is try and make the number of premades on each team equal as possible. Even if one team has a full 12 man putting them against two six man groups or even one 8 man plus a group of 4 might be more fair then 12 individual pugs

Edited by Fabe, 05 November 2013 - 05:09 PM.

[Capt Sternn]

I would like to see a 4 v 4 mode on the smaller maps where each team must be made of 1 L, 1 M, 1 H, 1A. It could prove to be very competitive , perhaps even a 250 ton limit.

[Kjudoon]

Sandpit, on 05 November 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

No, it's silly to limit people being able to group up and play a team game in any way, shape, or form. period

I agree with your views and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Sandpit]

Another thing I'd just like to point out. Even when I'm on a 12 man pug team. Simply saying things like:

"can we get our lights to scout or cap (depending on map and game mode)"
"Stick together and try to shoot at targets taht teammates are already shooting at"
"Remember to hit R so that everyone else knows there's an enemy there that needs to be shot"

Goes a loooooooooong ways in keeping us cohesive. Also when I see blue blips runnign in 8 different directions, a lot of times a simple "Hey guys we need to regroup a bit before we get picked off" will usually get us back on the same page.

Theram is a prime example of people whining, people whine and complain about the bottleneck leading into the cano and rage at players who head that way but a simple "Hey guys if we are going center, make sure we push through and dont' bottleneck at the opening so we get picked off 2 at a time" makes a huge difference.

It's not hard to get pugs to work together, it jsut takes a few sentences and not beign a {Richard Cameron} and demanding anyone do anything but suggest a few strategies. If the first words out of your mouth are "Lights go to E3, heavies you better be firing and soaking damage" you're not going to get people responding well to that generally