41 replies to this topic

[FinsT]

to PGI.

AC/2 currently has 0.52s cooldown, iirc. Please increase it to 0.54s or higher.

Reason #1: with elite weapons' cooldowns upgrade, AC/2 gets 0.49s cooldown, which, i suspect, leads to much additional heat generated when firing two AC/2 cannons in auto mode - because two AC/2 cannons then make 4 shots in any given 0.5s timeframe, which is, afaik, considered an "alpha" of 4 shots - and is thus a subject for additional, quite large, heat penalty. Increasing AC/2 default cooldown to 0.54 seconds should eliminate this problem.

Reason #2: AC/2, apparently, deals slightly more DPS than AC/5. Which i suspect should not be the case. Increasing its cooldown would help to eliminate this.

Reason #3: AC/2 generates quite a fair amount of heat by itself. Increasing its cooldown would reduce this problem.

And, it's a very simple change which does not require any feature development. Please do it.

[Ewigan]

Sounds quite reasonable.
I liked it.

[DeadlyNerd]

or just remove heat penalty from AC/2 because it's already generating more heat than a nuclear reactor.

[El Bandito]

DeadlyNerd, on 14 October 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

or just remove heat penalty from AC/2 because it's already generating more heat than a nuclear reactor.

I agree that the heat penalty should be removed from AC2s. However, the rate of fire needs to be slowed down because the DPS is pretty damn high.

[Alistair Winter]

Is the AC2 really so good that the only change that needs to be made is to lower the rate of fire? I agree that AC2 heat is a problem, but it's not like it was a very popular weapon even before ghost heat.

It's the smallest ballistic weapon, but how many small mechs (lights and mediums) actually use the AC2? It's actually mostly used by heavy and assault mechs, who can take 2 or 3 AC2s and kind of make it worthwhile, sometimes. AC20 Ravens are more common than AC2 Ravens, for Pete's sake.

My greatest success with the AC2 on a light or medium mech, after almost 1 year of playing, came from the Cicada 3C with a double AC2. And that was mediocre. It's useless on a light mech and my Centurions do far better with bigger ballistics.

Reason #1: You may be right about that.
Reason #2: Disagree. It's supposed to have higher DPS because it has less than half the damage per shot. Like other DPS weapons, it requires that you stay on target the whole time, without torso twisting. If you engage in a sniping battle, moving in and out of cover, you will do no damage at all.
Reason #3: So what? That's like saying medium pulse lasers wouldn't run so hot if you decreased rate of fire. That's not really getting to the root of the problem, is it? It's like saying "Sure, nuclear reactors have a chance of exploding. But if we build twice the number of nuclear reactors, at half the size, then at least we'll have the same energy output, and smaller explosions." It doesn't solve anything.

[Zyllos]

I personally this it does have a bit too high of RoF.

But I also think it's producing too much heat per shot. So, I am up for reducing of RoF and lower heat.

[scJazz]

Since Fast Fire is an empty skill like Pin Point why bother.

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2726475

[ArmageddonKnight]

Bad idea.

The Ac2's should never have had their ROF changed from 0.5 to 0.52 in the 1st place. They only done it becouse they broke the damn heat for AC2's with Ghost heat. And even then its still borked.

Remove AC2 from the ghost heat table, its a simple thing. Then change rof back to 0.5.

The AC2 heat generation is insane anyway, even befor this whole ghost heat situation.

The ONLY reason the AC2 is in the ghost heat table in the 1st place, is becouse some QQ'er at PGI decided he didnt like being pummeled by stagger fire AC2's becouse he considered it 'greifing'. I mean thats 'noob' on an entirley different level when it comes from a developer.

And tbh, the reasoning behind the 'grieging' statement was down to cockpit shake and explosion...somthing that can be tweeked seperatly and also somthing that can be done much worse with a different AC layout, of which said layout i now use. Bigger explosions, harder cockpit shake, and more dmg and still with 0.25second constant rof that can last for 20-40 seconds depending on map ambient temps.

Bassicaly its all 'FAIL' on PGI atm.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 14 October 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Well PGI decided to try straight up TT Autocannon damage/heat values for a Mech Warrior game. There is the meat/potatoes of the issue right there.

When SHS can't handle the lowest heat Autocannon, then Houston, we have a problem.

[Bilbo]

General Taskeen, on 14 October 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Well PGI decided to try straight up TT Autocannon damage/heat values for a Mech Warrior game. There is the meat/potatoes of the issue right there.

When SHS can't handle the lowest heat Autocannon, then Houston, we have a problem.

They can handle the lowest heat AC just fine. They just can't handle 6 of them, nor should they.

[FupDup]

Bilbo, on 14 October 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

They can handle the lowest heat AC just fine.

Actually they can't. 10 SHS dissipate 1 heat per second. 1 AC/2 generates 1.92 heat per second, which is almost twice as much heat as the SHS mech can dissipate.

Bilbo, on 14 October 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

They just can't handle 6 of them, nor should they.

No mechs in the game even have enough tonnage to carry that many AC/2, and if we did ever get variants that could handle it they would still be better off boating any of the larger AC sizes or Gauss.

[Bilbo]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Actually they can't. 10 SHS dissipate 1 heat per second. 1 AC/2 generates 1.92 heat per second, which is almost twice as much heat as the SHS mech can dissipate.



No mechs in the game even have enough tonnage to carry that many AC/2, and if we did ever get variants that could handle it they would still be better off boating any of the larger AC sizes or Gauss.

Oh, I see. A mech with no external heat sinks should be able to dissipate the heat generated by any weapon. Gotcha.

[FupDup]

Bilbo, on 14 October 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

Oh, I see. A mech with no external heat sinks should be able to dissipate the heat generated by any weapon. Gotcha.

Strawman fallacy.

[DONTOR]

The trade off for High DPS is that you have to stare at your target head on the whole time your firing. LEAVE AC2s ALONE!

[focuspark]

preferable solution: removal of completely stupid and nonsensical "ghost heat" mechanic.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Makes sense. And I find it hilariously stupid that they did not think on the quickfire skill when they implemented the ghost heat, gimping ac/2 in the process and not noticing it since then. L O L

[Shadey99]

Besides the fact the quickfire skill doesn't actually seem to work, so the argument is mostly moot...

I'm still looking to play with my new AC2 Overlord SHD-2H... ~180 damage in ~15 seconds (Almost 12 damage per second) before you overheat... Figuring you can both stay on target for 15 seconds and you do not die first from having to stare at him... And of course in 37.5 seconds your guns run dry having maxed out at a whole 900 damage...

Edited by Shadey99, 14 October 2013 - 10:44 AM.

[Vodrin Thales]

FupDup, on 14 October 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

Actually they can't. 10 SHS dissipate 1 heat per second. 1 AC/2 generates 1.92 heat per second, which is almost twice as much heat as the SHS mech can dissipate.

The AC2 is the highest heat autocannon, not the lowest. SHS work just fine to dissipate the heat of an AC5 (the lowest heat auto cannon).

Does anyone remember what a complete waste of tonnage an AC2 was in TT? I like that PGI found a way of making them viable without allowing them to be completely overpowered.

[OznerpaG]

Shadey99, on 14 October 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

I'm still looking to play with my new AC2 Overlord SHD-2H... ~180 damage in ~15 seconds (Almost 12 damage per second) before you overheat... Figuring you can both stay on target for 15 seconds and you do not die first from having to stare at him... And of course in 37.5 seconds your guns run dry having maxed out at a whole 900 damage...

having played this

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ef15b8fe60e278

continuously for the last 3 months i can safely tell you you'r going to be in BIG heat trouble on the hot maps. and the ammo in the CT? bad idea - if you'r not wasteful 5t of ammo will last to the end of the/your match near all the time

[FupDup]

Vodrin Thales, on 14 October 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

The AC2 is the highest heat autocannon, not the lowest. SHS work just fine to dissipate the heat of an AC5 (the lowest heat auto cannon).

Does anyone remember what a complete waste of tonnage an AC2 was in TT? I like that PGI found a way of making them viable without allowing them to be completely overpowered.

In MWO it certainly is the hottest; I was referring to the "classic" role it had in that it shared the same heat as the AC/5. And yes, in TT it was perhaps THE single worst weapon of all time.