338 replies to this topic

[Steelgrave]

The spider:



Other light mechs:

[Mehlan]

Quote

I do not see any room for debate on if that quote you pulled out of context was about SRMs or not. The title of the section even says "What about SRMs?!?! Buff them to 2.5!!!". In my mind all 3 paragraphs were about SRMs, not all weapons, not Spiders, etc..

It's an assumption, based on the origination... I could either be only srms, or a more general statement in regards to HSR based on the structure.

Quote

Yes, that is true; it is my assumption that PGI is either honest, or correct, when they explain how it works... it is entirely possible that it does not work at all or is simply 'vaporware', considering certain track-records...

I'd imagine that's how it's intended to work, but as they have also stated themselves its fairly deep/complicated... and would appear not functioning perfectly correct.

Quote

A simple "______ is the problem, spider is a symptom." would have been just fine, short, to the point, and an actual answer. Saying "there is nothing to fix" regarding any topic of this game is just, well, incorrect.

Hardly so, he was asked a question and he answered it.

Quote

Actually, employees of a company that deals with the public should be ready and able to at least field polite stock responses anytime they interact with said public. It's not rocket science. Sure, the reaction was terrible, but the people reacting aren't paid employees of a company in communication with their customers. That doesn't excuse them, but it really doesn't excuse our man from dodging the question either. Like I said, the saloon in that there post-modern western is full of bad guys.

The man was in a match, either playing or testing...why the hell should he be expected to play Q&A?

[Gallowglas]

Asakara, on 18 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

I do not see any room for debate on if that quote you pulled out of context was about SRMs or not. The title of the section even says "What about SRMs?!?! Buff them to 2.5!!!". In my mind all 3 paragraphs were about SRMs, not all weapons, not Spiders, etc..

Let me elaborate so there's no further misunderstanding. There's nothing in the post to indicate that hit registration issues being directly tied to SRM's. Yes, the context of the conversation is that BECAUSE there are hit registration issues on smaller mechs any buff to SRM damage could impact larger mechs disproportionately. However, there is no indication that the problem is isolated to SRM's. Damage was not raised on other weapon types at the same time, so we can't exactly cite the isolation of the SRM debate as being proof-positive as to what the context indicates. Indeed, I certainly didn't take the reference to mean anything other than that small mechs had hit registration problems, period. I'm not saying that wasn't their intent. I just didn't read it that way.

Asakara, on 18 October 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

As for understanding my use of "disingenuous", I was following its definition of "not sincere". Sincere meaning "free from deceit" (hopefully I do not need to define deceit too). I apologize for any confusion in my usage, and perhaps next time I will just say that "Pretending otherwise is deceitful in my book"... Though personally I find that less tactful.

It would be best if you didn't presume my motivations. I knew exactly what definition you were going for, but I'm trying to point out to you that it would be extremely hard for me to be deceitful when I'm citing the source of the post. I simply didn't take away from that conversation what you did. In fact, I am conceding that what you say (i.e. the acknowledgment about hit registration was ONLY with regards to SRM hit registration) might have some merit. However, if that's so, I don't think they were very clear. Thus, the reason I omitted the other material because I didn't think the two issues were directly related...not because of some nefarious (though idiotic) scheme.

Edited by Gallowglas, 18 October 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Asakara]

Gallowglas, on 18 October 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

Let me elaborate so there's no further misunderstanding. There's nothing in the post to indicate that hit registration issues being directly tied to SRM's. Yes, the context of the conversation is that BECAUSE there are hit registration issues on smaller mechs any buff to SRM damage could impact larger mechs disproportionately. However, there is no indication that the problem is isolated to SRM's. Damage was not raised on other weapon types at the same time, so we can't exactly cite the isolation of the SRM debate as being proof-positive as to what the context indicates. Indeed, I certainly didn't take the reference to mean anything other than that small mechs had hit registration problems, period. I'm not saying that wasn't their intent. I just didn't read it that way.

I understand your point though there is nothing indicating that they were talking about anything but SRMs in that section (and in that specific paragraph) from my perspective.

Gallowglas, on 18 October 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

It would be best if you didn't presume my motivations. I knew exactly what definition you were going for, but I'm trying to point out to you that it would be extremely hard for me to be deceitful when I'm citing the source of the post. I simply didn't take away from that conversation what you did. In fact, I am conceding that what you say (i.e. the acknowledgment about hit registration was ONLY with regards to SRM hit registration) might have some merit. However, if that's so, I don't think they were very clear. Thus, the reason I omitted the other material because I didn't think the two issues were directly related...not because of some nefarious (though idiotic) scheme.

Good enough. I do not think they were very clear either, which unfortunately leads to conversations like this.

[Glucose]

Homeless Bill, on 17 October 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

There's clearly not a lot of aiming skill in this video, but here's what I experience: http://www.twitch.tv..._bill/c/3100317

A few of those are clear misses, but a few of those should have registered some decent damage. At the end, it's hardly scratched. And then the Jenner melts like it always does.

Holy ****.

I was just watching your video. Right at the moment when you're about to fire on the spider, the video cut to an ad for Cheez-Its. I kid you not.

[AC]

played the champion spider last night. I have an identical Cicada with way more armor. I noticed that I survive longer in the spider. I don't seem to get shot less, just take way less damage.

[wintersborn]

Yep been playing the trial spider and its soo broken, I can run around and barley get scratched until my legs get taken out.

I just don't think Spider players want to admit they are broken, I don't care how or why they are broken but they are!

[Mehlan]

wintersborn, on 18 October 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

Yep been playing the trial spider and its soo broken, I can run around and barley get scratched until my legs get taken out.

I just don't think Spider players want to admit they are broken, I don't care how or why they are broken but they are!

How about providing a ping/network connection log your next match?

[Gremlich Johns]

wintersborn, on 17 October 2013 - 02:18 PM, said:

I'm sorry but Garth? needs to pull his head out of his [redacted].

The phrase you are looking for to fill in for "redacted" is "Third point of contact" any armor crewman knows what that means, but frankly, it is not too difficult to intuit.

[IllCaesar]

Mehlan, on 18 October 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

How about providing a ping/network connection log your next match?

I charged an AC40 Jager and didn't get a scratch of damage. I saw the shells go right into my torso.

My ping - 55

AC40 Jager's ping - 71

And before you think of it, I wasn't going fast enough to beat any kind of latency. Was moving about 80 KPH, face to face.

Was I believe three days ago, right after the patch.

Edited by MarsAtlas, 18 October 2013 - 04:52 PM.

[Livebait]

River city a few hours ago:
One enemy Spider at lower base cap-stopped.
Four mechs-Commando, Hunchie, Locust and Jenner pounce on it.
Can hardly see the Spider from all the lasers, rockets and ballistics hammer it.
8-10 seconds later the Spider moves off with a yellow and orange armor. I think he was humming a tune as he moved off to join his team.
There is no way the Spider is broke.
Melhan S T F U

[Mcgral18]

MarsAtlas, on 18 October 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

I charged an AC40 Jager and didn't get a scratch of damage. I saw the shells go right into my torso.

My ping - 55

AC40 Jager's ping - 71

And before you think of it, I wasn't going fast enough to beat any kind of latency. Was moving about 80 KPH, face to face.

Was I believe three days ago, right after the patch.

Odd, when I played Wednesday, an AC40 blew my CT armor off and made me crimson CT.

Of course, I've also been hit with cockpit shake and no damage from AC20s...it's an odd state of affairs. We can only hope it gets fixed at some point.

[Corwin Vickers]

Antarus, on 18 October 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

Spiders standing still can be missed by large pulses.

Any mech standing still can be missed by any weapon in the game. It's because the mech is not standing where you think it is because your client is lying to you based on old data. This is also why that shutdown mech that your shots just disappeared into suddenly warps 20 feet forward when it starts moving again. Watch the paper doll people.

Ghogiel, on 18 October 2013 - 03:23 AM, said:

low ping players are worse in my subjective experience for hit detection.

That is definitely not what I have experienced but then I am a low ping player. It's the high ping players who warp and stutter who I have to lead more than normal.

Gallowglas, on 18 October 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Honestly, I've seen video evidence of people registering big damage on Spiders with their aiming reticle well ahead of the mech, while only getting a paper doll flash while putting reticle on target.

Then do that? You have the solution right there. It also solves the problem of shooting bigger slower mechs in the torso and taking an arm off instead. For people with high ping or against people with high ping your point of aim is behind where the server knows the player to be.

The server is king. Bow down or cry forever

Asakara, on 18 October 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

That paragraph you pulled out of context was regarding SRMs. Nowhere in those 3 paragraphs, that you pulled the middle one out of, does it mention other weapons or say it was not exclusive to SRMs.

Pretending otherwise is disingenuous in my book.

Full Context:

I cannot see how anyone can interpret that to mean it's talking about anything other than SRMs. The title of the section is What about SRMs?!?! Buff them to 2.5!!! It then talks about SRMs by name. The next paragraph talks in more general terms, all that apply to SRMs, and then finishes with a paragraph about SRMs.

That's like reading an article called What about Zebras?!?!and thinking it's talking about all striped animals because some of the terms can be applied to clown fish. It's pretty clear in the title what that section is about.

Also remember that HSR for ballistics and HSR for SRMs are two different animals and were implemented at different times.

Why did lasers get borked in the process? I don't know. Did they start getting bad when they added 12v12?

[Coralld]

If Garth honestly believes that then I think he is smoking some pretty strong s**t.

I have seen one of my friends run around in a Spider that he made into a Urbi with nothing more than a AC10 and a SL and bearly breaks 40KPH and yet he is able to tank an Atlas... And kill it.

Edited by Coralld, 18 October 2013 - 07:14 PM.

[FenrisUlf]

Spider shuts down shoot it with Ac/10 twice and no damage

true story

[MrMadguy]

Yeah, there is something weird happening with Spiders. You know, my AS7-BH has 46 alpha damage via lasers (i.e. you can't just miss - you can track target's motion). Let's see, how many armor Spider SDR-5K has: 40 max CT, 28 max LT and RT, 20 max LA and RA, 18 max head, 28 max LL and RL - total max 210. So we can see, that I can literally one-shoot SDR, if all my alpha damage will go into single piece of his armor - I've tested it in Testing Grounds and it's really happening. And in a worst case (if damage will be spreaded very badly) it will take only 4-5 alphas to kill it. So Spider should die somewhere between one-shoot and 5 alphas? Should, but guess what? Spider can just catch damage by his face (not playing hide&seek - just openly fighting) from 3 heavy/assault mechs and sustaining it! How can light mech has even more survivability, then assault one? It's just wrong design!

[Sable Dove]

Assuming the actual issue has been resolved (the actual hitbox issue, which is no longer reproducable), then here's why the Spider is so resilient:

Bad hit detection in general (I've had stationary atlases ignore an AC20 to the back).
Doesn't have any of the significant drawbacks of the other lights;
Raven has huge leg hitboxes.
Jenner has a massive, unprotectable CT.
Locust has larger legs and a long torso.
Commando is just very thick, near as I can tell (only light I haven't used myself).

In contrast the Spider is:
Small, thin, with narrow legs; hitboxes are divided well so that spreading damage is all but unavoidable.
The combination of size, speed, and good hitboxes makes it tougher than is expected, because every other light has some crippling drawback that makes them easier to kill. When it comes down to it, the Spider is simply the best design. Combine that with spotty hit detection and you have an unusually tanky light. Also, jumpjets that make hitting and hit detection even more difficult.

[Valore]

Hitreg is a pile of rubbish. And for those of you who haven't realised, its an inside joke that the mods enjoy trolling people like the OP.

In fact, I don't even judge them for that. Let's face it, they must put up with BS from all the entitled and rude players they meet all the time, so they're entitled a little payback.

But what they have to face up to is that they're in no position to make fun of people when their game is an absolute pile of dogcrap, with hitreg the way it is. Maybe if they fixed up some of the glaring problems they've had for months first before trying to pretend they're funny, we'd pretend to laugh at their 'jokes'.

[MrMadguy]

If this problems are caused by bugged hit detection, then may be PGI should really adjust Spider's hitboxes till they won't fix hit detection?

Edited by MrMadguy, 19 October 2013 - 12:00 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Roadbeer, on 17 October 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Well, I see two people in that chat acting like petulant children rather than asking for a clarification to what he meant.

Anything you have to say after that image is fairly irrelevant.

...minus the kissing bits.

While I agree with the sentiment of the OP (anecdotal, I find my spiders more survivable than any other light mech I drive, with FAR less effort, and conversely harder to kill than any other light) approaching it that way is unnecessarily aggressive and immature. If you want the devs to communicate with us more, treat them with respect.