183 replies to this topic

[MechFrog1]

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's a matter of priority

Yeah, and we've seen in the past year that the priorities are things that aren't what people want and are actually harming the new player experience.

[Roadbeer]

mint frog, on 20 October 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

Yeah, and we've seen in the past year that the priorities are things that aren't what people want and are actually harming the new player experience.

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

Chronojam makes and anti-PGI post and mint frog is 5 minutes behind him.

Hey Mint, say "Intellectual Bankruptcy", like you do in 1 out of every 5 posts. It's cute, mostly because you're using the term incorrectly.

Stay adorable mint.

Edited by Roadbeer, 20 October 2013 - 11:53 AM.

[Imperius]

I would like this gone many times 2 of my friends had to run thier own group because we had a full 4 man... A game that can't be played with friendsis a game that eventually never gets played again.

[Chronojam]

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's a matter of priority, I see you have a founders tag, so I can only assume you were around when C3 was auto-launched back in CB and it was (at least with everyone I know) disabled it as soon as that check box became available.

I'm sure that PGI kept track of those metrics and decided "wow, X% are turning it off, so lets make that low priority". Though, I feel that it had more to do with C3 being horribad compared to the other VoIP options, and having a small staff, they really don't have the resources to develop their own.

All of which is completely peripheral to the topic and that you just found an excuse to post your little "slam PGI" link to turn this into another tin-foil hat "PGI LIED, ELECTRONS DIED" conversation.

Bravo :slow clap:

That pop-up was supposed to be a placeholder until their paid-for customized integrated solution was ready. It was instead silently dropped after putting that absurd press release out on the news wire, and we've never heard further about it.

All people want is "Hold a key while playing and you can talk to the other players" instead of trying to hurriedly tell your teammates to join your server during the precious few seconds at the start of the match (and do they need Ventrilo? TeamSpeak 2? TS3? Mumble? Something different?).

Oh, well, I guess you would suggest they could always hop onto the game's built in lobby your particular IRC or Jabber server ahead of time to decide which voice server to use?

[MechFrog1]

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Hey Mint, say "Intellectual Bankruptcy", like you do in 1 out of every 5 posts. It's cute, mostly because you're using the term incorrectly.

A bold claim. Now prove it. Unless of course you're a dishonest dezgra windbag.

[Chronojam]

HOW INTUITIVE

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

Chronojam makes and anti-PGI post and mint frog is 5 minutes behind him.

Hey Mint, say "Intellectual Bankruptcy", like you do in 1 out of every 5 posts. It's cute, mostly because you're using the term incorrectly.

Stay adorable mint.

Check this sweet ad-hominem. "Well I can't argue the priorities are screwed up, but Mint Frog sure does love catchphrases... I got this!"

[Roadbeer]

Chronojam, on 20 October 2013 - 11:55 AM, said:

That pop-up was supposed to be a placeholder until their paid-for customized integrated solution was ready. It was instead silently dropped after putting that absurd press release out on the news wire, and we've never heard further about it.

All people want is "Hold a key while playing and you can talk to the other players" instead of trying to hurriedly tell your teammates to join your server during the precious few seconds at the start of the match (and do they need Ventrilo? TeamSpeak 2? TS3? Mumble? Something different?).

Oh, well, I guess you would suggest they could always hop onto the game's built in lobby your particular IRC or Jabber server ahead of time to decide which voice server to use?

Hey, I don't disagree with any given point, just it's a matter of priority, of which, IMO grouping with people you want to, since we've already handled our communications problems and overcame them, is more important than listening to some mouth-breathing 12 year old with tourets scream into his mic.

And since that's what the topic is REALLY about...

[Chronojam]

Imperius, on 20 October 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I would like this gone many times 2 of my friends had to run thier own group because we had a full 4 man... A game that can't be played with friendsis a game that eventually never gets played again.

Saying it's too hard to play with your friends doesn't matter right now. Allow me to explain.

[Roadbeer]

mint frog, on 20 October 2013 - 11:56 AM, said:

A bold claim. Now prove it. Unless of course you're a dishonest dezgra windbag.

Search your own name Cupcake.

Chronojam, on 20 October 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Saying it's too hard to play with your friends doesn't matter right now. Allow me to explain.

I know it's hard, but try to stay on topic Corky.

[MechFrog1]

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Search your own name Cupcake.

No proof, no cookie. Dezgra windbag.

Edit: You didn't even do a search. Can you be any lazier?

Here I did the work for you.

A search for the phrase, "intellectual bankruptcy" brings up one use by the user MintFrog. In that one use, it was used correctly.

I'll wait patiently for your prompt apology. Any minute now.

Edited by mint frog, 20 October 2013 - 12:09 PM.

[Chronojam]

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

Hey, I don't disagree with any given point, just it's a matter of priority, of which, IMO grouping with people you want to, since we've already handled our communications problems and overcame them, is more important than listening to some mouth-breathing 12 year old with tourets scream into his mic.

And since that's what the topic is REALLY about...

Listen, you or I may have solved our communications issues and found a group to play with long ago, and that doesn't help organized players talk to the other pre-made or unaffiliated players we inevitably end up grouped with. It sure doesn't help new players to have neither a pre-game chat lobby nor in-game voice options.

With their launch event looming -- where they planned to have teams together on voice chat -- wouldn't it have made sense to have their own integrated VOIP solution since it was a full year after the announcement that a third party was contracted to provide it? It seems backwards they had to rely on an ostensibly third-party TeamSpeak server.

VOIP is far more important for new players and old players alike than ghost heat, or third person, or the new movement, and I'm not sure how much trouble it should have been for PGI developers themselves since they explicitly decided to hire an outside team to provide the customized, integrated VOIP solution.

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 12:04 PM, said:

Search your own name Cupcake.

I know it's hard, but try to stay on topic Corky.

Dude stop namecalling just because your arguments are complete shit.

[Hexenhammer]

The one change I'd make to the game.

Separate Queues.

Pug: Solo only
Premaded: Must be grouped with at least one person. Yes this means three four made premades might go against a 12 man premade.
"I don't care": just get me into a match. I don't care. Yes this means people will be used to fill in the gamps of unbalanced premades.



I'd be in the "I don't care" I wanna play queue.

Edited by Hexenhammer, 20 October 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Chronojam, on 20 October 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Listen, you or I may have solved our communications issues and found a group to play with long ago, and that doesn't help organized players talk to the other pre-made or unaffiliated players we inevitably end up grouped with. It sure doesn't help new players to have neither a pre-game chat lobby nor in-game voice options.

With their launch event looming -- where they planned to have teams together on voice chat -- wouldn't it have made sense to have their own integrated VOIP solution since it was a full year after the announcement that a third party was contracted to provide it? It seems backwards they had to rely on an ostensibly third-party TeamSpeak server.

VOIP is far more important for new players and old players alike than ghost heat, or third person, or the new movement, and I'm not sure how much trouble it should have been for PGI developers themselves since they explicitly decided to hire an outside team to provide the customized, integrated VOIP solution.

Again, we don't disagree, but that's not what the topic was about, so your dropping the Reuters article in it is just low-level lazy trolling with a hackneyed mantra (I expect more from a WoL post, look to Anders as an example). This is pretty common in your posts, the gem/trash ratio is quite low, and while I often find myself wanting to like your posts, you end up turning it into some pointless anti-PGI rant, derailing any semblance of conversation in it to take yet another cheap swipe at the game.

Chronojam, on 20 October 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Dude stop namecalling just because your arguments are complete ****.

Actually, this is how I think of you two on the forum, Cupcake and Corky. Your posts are never far apart, you say the same things, I just picture you as some cute couple posting together to support each others arguments. Sorry if that offends.

[Navy Sixes]

Kunae, on 18 October 2013 - 07:19 AM, said:

I wouldn't call them "lone wolves", as that implies something useful. They should be referred to as anti-social bads, who should stick to single-player games where they can use their cheat-codes.

Whoa there, killer. I solo PUG exclusively because I work full-time and attend college full-time. I cannot build my life around a game, so I only drop when I can, which is irregularly. I simply can't commit to a regular play-time, and don't think that would be fair to any group I would join. I don't think I'm anti-social (the voices in my head seem to like me well enough ) nor do I cheat.

I fully understand why people who have the time would want to drop with their friends. That's why they have 12v12, so people who what to drop in groups can play against other people who drop in groups. What's the problem?

Don't bother, I'll field this one: the problem, the prems will tell you, is that you have to wait too long for a match in 12v12. Well, that should tell you something: as much as you want prems to be the 'norm' and solo PUGers to be outlier 'bads,' that is not the reality on the ground. If it were, it would be easy to find a match in 12v12, and the PUG server would be a dark, quiet, and empty place... their own reasoning collapses their argument.

Personally, I think prems trolling the PUGs when they already have a whole server all to themselves is pretty shabby; I see a prem in the PUG and I imagine a bunch of lames who can't hang against other prems and so they drop into the PUG to find some easy-win validation. That's why it always feels extra good, as a solo PUGer, to whip them so bad it's like I pulled their little walkie-talkie nerdhelm from their head and shoved it up their a**.

I agree that it is better to get into a group as soon as you can; the game rewards coordination, and prems are great examples of that coordination in action. If I ever get enough free-time to commit to a group, I will be enlisting. (Hopefully it will happen before CW comes online!) It would be better for PGI to let prems make groups of whatever size they want.

Those groups, whatever their size, should not be allowed to drop into the solo PUG. Solo PUGers are not anti-social, they are not cheaters, they are not bads. They are new players trying to learn the game, and they are paying customers (in greater numbers, see above) who have not yet committed to a group for whatever reason. We deserve a playing environment in which we can learn and enjoy the game we paid for and use it's features (like restructuring unit's placement in the company) without catching grief from prems. Most prems in the PUG suck the solo's fun out of the game so they can feel better about every time they drop into 12v12 and get slapped around like stepchildren by the prems who challenge themselves by getting good at fighting other prems.

Those are the groups that I will strive to join when I enlist. I can honestly say I will never sign up for a group that drops prem into a solo PUG and then spams advertisements for itself. Whatever your spam, this is how it reads:

"Dipnpuke Merc Corporation: watch how well we perform when the odds are in our favor." And then if you lose...

[Roadbeer]

Tycho von Gagern, on 20 October 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

{stuff}

You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

[MechFrog1]

Hexenhammer, on 20 October 2013 - 12:21 PM, said:

The one change I'd make to the game.

Separate Queues.

There aren't enough players to split the queues. That's why they had to go back on their, "1st person never has to play with 3PV" statement.


Edit: Still waiting on that apology, Roadbeer.

Edited by mint frog, 20 October 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[Bromineberry]

Poerisija, on 20 October 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

People want 6-9 organized people versus a bunch of randoms. They want to stomp. Their excuse is "it's a team game, team up or die" when in reality they just want easy wins, because who doesn't like easy wins in a grindy game like this?

This is SO true. Of course not everyone who rolls with a unit is like that. But many are. I clearly remember the argument when 8-man roflstomping against pugs was "the avarage game". So many people on the forums said: "If we had 8vs8, then we wouldn't have to roflstomp and would play against other 8mans! roflstomping is the only way we can play together". So, PGI did introduce the 8vs8 queue. Short time later, the first threads pop up with people unable to find games in 8vs8, because noone played it, threads like this:

http://mwomercs.com/...ch-8v8-all-day/

or this

http://mwomercs.com/...nally-get-8vs8/

So, easymode was over, and 8vs8 suddenly was a challange...so most people said "screw it" and "downgraded" to 4 man lances to keep on "rocking" the pugs.

Many people simply want their easymode for rolling in the money, while feeling like the king of cheese over TS how awesome they are and so that they can post afterwards in the forums, how great their k/d or w/l rate is, that they do at least 700dmg each game and everybody else should l2p, because roflstomping is the way the game is meant to be played.

Like I said before, not all people are like this...but too many to remove group size limits in pug games.

And, I like to make a bold call at this point: IF PGI was to introduce "4vs4" and "8vs8" modes in addition to the "12 vs 12" mode, I'm sure the same "I can't find a game, noone is playing" threads will pop up again. Why? Because most people would prefer the gamemode with the higher chance to win, over the gamemode with the lower chance to win.

Edited by Bromineberry, 20 October 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[Roadbeer]

mint frog, on 20 October 2013 - 12:54 PM, said:

Edit: Still waiting on that apology, Roadbeer.

Awww, Cupcake, you know that isn't going to happen. It's not the first time I've mentioned it, and I'm almost certain you'd go through your whole history to edit it out, so you can look like the victim. Like that one time I caught you editing your post while you were being quoted, so you could look like the victim Don't say it didn't happen, both you and I know it did.

[MechFrog1]

Making it 4 or 12 didn't stop teams from getting rolled. It happens all the time.

The only difference was that before, players had something to blame for the lack of teamwork.

Roadbeer, on 20 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

Awww, Cupcake, you know that isn't going to happen. It's not the first time I've mentioned it, and I'm almost certain you'd go through your whole history to edit it out, so you can look like the victim. Like that one time I caught you editing your post while you were being quoted, so you could look like the victim Don't say it didn't happen, both you and I know it did.

I've used that phrase exactly once, and correctly. You're a boring troll who got called out like the dezgra you are.

[Kaio-Kerensky x10]

Bromineberry, on 20 October 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

This is SO true. Of course not everyone who rolls with a unit is like that. But many are. I clearly remember the argument when 8-man roflstomping against pugs was "the avarage game". So many people on the forums said: "If we had 8vs8, then we wouldn't have to roflstomp and would play against other 8mans! roflstomping is the only way we can play together". So, PGI did introduce the 8vs8 queue. Short time later, the first threads pop up with people unable to find games in 8vs8, because noone played it, threads like this:

Yes and no. It's a snowball effect, caused by splitting the queue.If weaker teams drop out of 8v8 for whatever reason, then it makes it harder to find a match for 8v8. That in itself is enough to drive people out of 8v8, and eventually you hit another critical mass, where you're facing the same people over and over. I don't particularly want to drop against SJR over and over when I'm just wanting to play the game with friends, nor does SJR particularly want to repeatedly roflstomp a bunch of my friends who are still trying to gel their team after not playing MWO for a while. SMNC suffered from this badly late in its life, when you would only face teams of the exact same size if you queued for a premade, making many tiny empty queues.

On top of this, specific queue sizes themselves are inconvenient. It's much harder to find exactly four players than it is at least four players, and an exact team size means that someone deciding they need a MWO break means the whole team has to wait for a replacement or quit. Waiting leads to people getting bored, so it's easy to have a "failure cascade" where one person quits, the lead looks frantically for a replacement, but can't find it before more people quit.

So it doesn't matter what you put at the middle of the snowball, but not everyone who wants larger groups but isn't happy with 12v12 or 8v8 is wanting to roflstomp puggers.

I don't expect this argument to go anywhere, though. It was made the day 8v8 queue was announced, and hasn't made any impact since. In the meantime, I'll just not play MWO! Sorry about the lack of a red star and all, PGI.

Edited by Zharot, 20 October 2013 - 03:00 PM.