6 replies to this topic

[focuspark]

Preface:

Locusts and Commandos are tiny. They're designed to scout and harass. They don't have jump jets or can carry big weapons, and have aluminum foil for armor. Their short stature size should make them the perfect scout 'mechs but they're not because the enemy can always see them as soon as they can see the enemy.

Science:

Radar (or Radio Detection and Ranging) uses very long light waves to look for high density objects against a relatively "dark" background by "shining" a radio flashlight in a direction and "looking" for things to "glow". This works relatively well, your eyes + a light source work in relatively the same way but use visible light (hence the name) instead.

Just like your eyes, when something is small and far away it's more difficult to notice. Especially if the lighting is poor (and radar almost always is "poor lighting") and refraction from the ground creates "noise" (think bloom) which makes objects more difficult to see.

Feature Request:

Reduce the range at which "tiny" 'mechs can be detected by 30%. To be fair, don't allow this to stack with ECM's range reduction.

As I understand it only the Locust and Commando are "Tiny" 'mechs. Other light 'mechs are classified as "Small".

This would allow these scout 'mechs to actually fulfill a combat role: scouting. They could get into position, get eyes on the enemy, and not be instantly seen by their targets.

Edited by focuspark, 17 October 2013 - 09:09 AM.

[Zyllos]

Like the overall idea, it's basically the same as what I thought should happen, but the other way around.

Different mechs have different sensor ranges.

Your suggest says all mechs have 800m range, but detection is reduced based on mech.

But, I think making any modification to sensors need to also accompany ECM changes.

[Khobai]

I think it should work both ways.

Different mechs should have different detection ranges (lights detect at 1200, mediums at 1000, heavies/assaults at 800, etc...).

But ALSO mechs should have detection signatures. Your detection signature would be a percentage number that modifies the range you can be detected at. Certain factors would increase or decrease your detection signature. So like if your engine is fully throttled up your detection signature might be 120% but if your engine is off it might only be 100% (so youd get detected 20% farther away if your engine is on).

So like a light mech could detect you at 1200m with your engine off or 1200x120% = 1440m with your engine fully throttled up.

Things that would increase signature: running hot, firing weapons, full throttle, open missile bay doors, etc...

Things that would decrease signature: shutdown, engine off, ecm, passive sensor mode, closed missile bay doors, etc...

Edited by Khobai, 17 October 2013 - 10:15 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

I'd have no problem with this.

[focuspark]

@Khobai: why would a smaller mech have a better sensor system?

I mean I get that the designers might have included one because it was a scout, but there's no direct logic saying sensor work better if the 'mech is smaller.

There is a direct logic saying sensors work worse when attempting to detect small things.

[Strum Wealh]

focuspark, on 17 October 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

@Khobai: why would a smaller mech have a better sensor system?

I mean I get that the designers might have included one because it was a scout, but there's no direct logic saying sensor work better if the 'mech is smaller.

There is a direct logic saying sensors work worse when attempting to detect small things.

Indeed - something as complex and expensive as a BattleMech is certainly going to have the pest sensors that can fit installed.

However, in terms of ground-based platforms looking for things on the ground (as would be the case with BattleMechs), smaller 'Mechs would actually be more susceptible to the effects of ground/surface clutter (see here and here) since their transmitters are closer to the surface than those of taller 'Mechs.

Quote

Clutter (also termed ground clutter) is a form of radar signal contamination. It occurs when fixed objects close to the transmitter - such as buildings, trees, or terrain (hills, ocean swells and waves) - obstruct a radar beam and produce echoes. The echoes resulting from ground clutter may be large in both size and intensity. The effects of ground clutter fall off as range increases usually due to the curvature of the earth and the tilt of the antenna above the horizon. Without special processing techniques, targets can be lost in returns from terrain on land or waves at sea.

Quote

Radar returns are produced from nearly all surfaces when illuminated by a radar. Therefore, in competition with the return from an aircraft, there are many sources of unwanted signals. Unwanted signals in a search radar are generally described as noise and clutter. Clutter is the term used and includes ground returns, sea returns, weather, buildings, birds and insects. The definition of clutter depends on the function of the radar. Weather is not clutter in a weather detecting radar.

Since aircraft usually move much faster than weather or surface targets, velocity-sensitive radar can eliminate unwanted clutter from the radar indicator. Radar systems that detect and process only moving targets are called Moving-Target Indicators (MTI).

[focuspark]

Strum Wealh, on 17 October 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

However, in terms of ground-based platforms looking for things on the ground (as would be the case with BattleMechs), smaller 'Mechs would actually be more susceptible to the effects of ground/surface clutter (see here and here) since their transmitters are closer to the surface than those of taller 'Mechs.

You'll notice on both the Locust and Commando an array of antennae on them. I do believe these are artists attempting to resolve this problem unknowingly (probably because main battle tanks carry them).