185 replies to this topic

[Scromboid]

Heffay, on 11 November 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Can you please give me a list of Scromboid approved entertainment options, so that I don't part from my money like a fool? Please enumerate the list of valid uses for my entertainment dollars. Thanks!

Also, FWIW, I am not trying to be insulting. I am just frustrated.

I apologize if I insulted you.

Ecto Cooler, on 11 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Speaking of not having an argument, how many times are you going to parrot the same thing over and over? It's tiresome at this point.

If anything I hope you would at least learn this one thing, which seems to continuously elude you, despite how many times it's been said -- value and prices mean different things to different people. Just because YOU think the game isn't worth $110, doesn't mean everyone shares that viewpoint. Luckily if you don't, the game is FREE. (Don't bother mentioning the mechbay argument again, it's laughable.)

It is really not laughable... it is a paywall that turns off a lot of folks. I know 5 guys just myself that will not play because of it alone.

Also, will you continue to pay $110 a year to play? $200? For the next 5-6 years?

I am not trying to be combative, I am really curious. I want this game to ~survive~. Expensive cool toys work well in the short term, but never has long term...

[Ecto Cooler]

Scromboid, on 11 November 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

Again, focus on the real question - do you think you will continue to pump $150 - $200 a year into this game? If not, then who?

This is why I believe the business model is flawed.

Insult me all you want. Be self righteous all you want. I do not care. What I care about (in this venue) is the health of this game. I cannot see this model lasting 5 years at these prices. Can you?

I don't know if I will, it depends how long I continue to have fun playing the game. Honestly, I don't see very many games that last for 5+ years at any business model.

As an example, I just finished Arkham Origins which I bought for $60 and netted about 10 hours of playtime. Great game if you're a fan of the Arkham series and I enjoyed it. But now it's done and I'll probably never touch it again. That can be said of so many games that I buy, with the exception that I actually took the time to beat the campaign. Most AAA titles lose my interest before that happens, so I get way less than 10 hours. Some games I've installed, played around with for maybe an hour and was done.

I have about a hundred hours logged in MWO right now. If I can get another hundred I'd consider my money very, very, well spent. It's not that expensive when you compare the time you put into it.

$120 is two AAA titles at release. I'll absolutely spend more than that this year on video games. So I don't think MWO is very expensive at that rate.

Edited by Ecto Cooler, 11 November 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[zolop]

Scromboid, on 11 November 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

It is really not laughable... it is a paywall that turns off a lot of folks. I know 5 guys just myself that will not play because of it alone.

Also, will you continue to pay $110 a year to play? $200? For the next 5-6 years?

I am not trying to be combative, I am really curious. I want this game to ~survive~. Expensive cool toys work well in the short term, but never has long term...

I think a lot of people are missing the point of the prices $30 USD for a mech when I can buy SHadowrun REturns with a level editor to limitless adventures. For $30 more dollars I could buy Battlefield 4 and collapse multilevel buildings and so much more. For infinity wars TCG with $30 I could get digital cards to build many decks to play in most ANY format. For $15 a month in EVE Online I could explore a vast space with many different characters and events.

People like me that have a day job, pay our bills/taxes and don't have a lot of money to spend, are just trying to explain the MWO digital goods prices are high compared to other F2P games and even subscription games. In these cases where we would normally support MWO we choose not too because we get better prices with other F2P games or games in general. $8 for a color when for $18 USD (around that much money, will verify once i get backl online) I can get all the colors in Warframe for my character. Oh wait I actually get a salvage in the forms of weapons modifications in warframe... REALLY who would have thought of putting a SALVAGE system in along with mission $$$ reward...PGI really needs to bring a level of immersion with this game even if it is basic thing such as salvage system (like recovering a part to build a mech, or a rare chance to salvage one).

Out of curious has anyone compared Hawken prices for digital goods to MWO. That would be a good comparison for a competitive market right? AKA we are asking for competitive prices within MWO competitors (like hawken or other robot/mech games), but of course none that will cause PGI/MWO to go bankrupt.

EDIT: I know this is going to come up...I rebought my pheonix package because I saw the start of more communication from PGI on its forums and its other sources. I really wish at this point that UI 2.0 was finally finished with the supposed overly successful PP event, but alas... hopefully it comes out this month.

Edited by zolop, 11 November 2013 - 03:43 PM.

[Scromboid]

Okay, in a sense, I will eat a little crow here.

This has really been bothering me today (yeah I need to let it go, right? ) so I brought it up to my wife and we chatted a little bit about it.

We played WoW for about 5 years and EQ before that. The subscription rates were $15 and $10 respectively, at the time. So, overall, we spent about $360 a year on WoW and $240 on EQ. Who am I really to bother you guys about paying upwards of that on this game?

The only real difference I see, and possibly what bothers me, is that those games, when we bought them, felt ~complete~. Okay, they were missing some key elements, but over time, they added on and fixed them, which is why I really did not mind the sub fee. I am probably frustrated a the spending state of this game because I do not see that level of detail existing in the game, but I am paying 'finished game prices' all the while being led along with missed dates and empty promises.

I don't know. Anyways have fun all.

I was not trying to argue or insult, just attempting to resolve my own feelings. I really ~want~ to spend money on this game, and I really ~want~ someone to convince me that it is not a waste of money. "PGI says it's right" doesn't hold any water since they have not been trustworthy in the past. Either way, I shouldn't throw stones at your money sink, because when I was your age, I had my own... it was just different.

My apologies to the offended and consider crow... er... raven eaten.

Peace, love and blow up some robots.

[Diego Angelus]

Ecto Cooler, on 11 November 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Speaking of not having an argument, how many times are you going to parrot the same thing over and over? It's tiresome at this point.

If anything I hope you would at least learn this one thing, which seems to continuously elude you, despite how many times it's been said -- value and prices mean different things to different people. Just because YOU think the game isn't worth $110, doesn't mean everyone shares that viewpoint. Luckily if you don't, the game is FREE. (Don't bother mentioning the mechbay argument again, it's laughable.)

If you think I don't that is fine but don't go over board and attack with no reason keep it civil.

It doesn't elude me I'm aware of it but for average people those are ridiculous prices. As I said its like demo good lucky having same experience as people that spend money.

[Ecto Cooler]

Scromboid, on 11 November 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

We played WoW for about 5 years and EQ before that. The subscription rates were $15 and $10 respectively, at the time. So, overall, we spent about $360 a year on WoW and $240 on EQ. Who am I really to bother you guys about paying upwards of that on this game?

The only real difference I see, and possibly what bothers me, is that those games, when we bought them, felt ~complete~. Okay, they were missing some key elements, but over time, they added on and fixed them, which is why I really did not mind the sub fee. I am probably frustrated a the spending state of this game because I do not see that level of detail existing in the game, but I am paying 'finished game prices' all the while being led along with missed dates and empty promises.

Finally, somebody gets it!

You also had to spend $50 on those titles to get the game itself, let alone paying a recurring subscription. The idea that none of these games are complete yet, that's why the pricing model is the way it is. Think of how far WoW and EQ have evolved over the years from the time it was launched. They are completely different games now. WoW didn't even have battlegrounds when it started and now has an entire ranking and arena system.

So if you're having fun with the game, spend some money and enhance that experience. But I can't stand when people compare online games cost with single purchase titles, they're just different animals.

[Diego Angelus]

Scromboid, on 11 November 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Okay, in a sense, I will eat a little crow here.

This has really been bothering me today (yeah I need to let it go, right? ) so I brought it up to my wife and we chatted a little bit about it.

We played WoW for about 5 years and EQ before that. The subscription rates were $15 and $10 respectively, at the time. So, overall, we spent about $360 a year on WoW and $240 on EQ. Who am I really to bother you guys about paying upwards of that on this game?

The only real difference I see, and possibly what bothers me, is that those games, when we bought them, felt ~complete~. Okay, they were missing some key elements, but over time, they added on and fixed them, which is why I really did not mind the sub fee. I am probably frustrated a the spending state of this game because I do not see that level of detail existing in the game, but I am paying 'finished game prices' all the while being led along with missed dates and empty promises.

I don't know. Anyways have fun all.

I was not trying to argue or insult, just attempting to resolve my own feelings. I really ~want~ to spend money on this game, and I really ~want~ someone to convince me that it is not a waste of money. "PGI says it's right" doesn't hold any water since they have not been trustworthy in the past. Either way, I shouldn't throw stones at your money sink, because when I was your age, I had my own... it was just different.

My apologies to the offended and consider crow... er... raven eaten.

Peace, love and blow up some robots.

Buy you just pointed out the problem when comparing with WoW, there you pay 15$ and that its you get everything like everybody else here not so much.

[Ecto Cooler]

Diego Angelus, on 11 November 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Buy you just pointed out the problem when comparing with WoW, there you pay 15$ and that its you get everything like everybody else here not so much.

This is why you're annoying, because you don't read or think.

You had to spend $50 when it was released to purchase it. That's not counting any expansions either, which are a solid $30 each. You paid $15 a month for ACCESS to the game world, not all of the content.

You still had to grind (sink time, continue to pay subscription) to get items, gear, levels, fluff -- whatever. You couldn't just buy a finished character with lots of gold.

MWO gives you the ability to access the game world and everything available for free. If you want it sooner, you need to spend some money. If you're really still upset about spending $1.50 on additional mechbays, consider that your $15 subscription cost. If you want to go to Panda Island and play as a Panda, you need to buy their expansion, consider that the Premium Mech cost.

Edited by Ecto Cooler, 11 November 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Shifty Eyes]

I've always thought the prices were abominable in this game. I've been playing over a year now and I've only just now bought the smallest MC pack to get some extra mech bays. I'm just not interested in dropping $20 - $30 just for one mech. That's been fine, though, as I've been able to grind c-bills for all the mechs I've wanted by now.

And it's all good, obviously enough people are buying that kind of stuff and pretty much funding the game for cheapies like me. However, I've been severely disappointed in PGI's progress with this game. I've never seen features roll out so slowly. It's like watching glass settle.

I'd be far, far more willing to throw some more money their way if development was up to par.

I'll keep playing though, because the explosions are fun. It's just so sad because there was so much potential...

Edited by Shifty Eyes, 11 November 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Gruinhardt]

Scromboid, on 11 November 2013 - 02:41 PM, said:

I was creating a hypothetical scenario I thought you would understand. Seems I was right FWIW, been once during a bachelor party and was so horrified I've never been back. No judging, just not my scene.

What is so horrifying about seeing beautiful women dancing. I dated a dancer for a while, gorgeous girl. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make her bad for being a stripper?

[Diego Angelus]

Ecto Cooler, on 11 November 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

This is why you're annoying, because you don't read or think.

You had to spend $50 when it was released to purchase it. That's not counting any expansions either, which are a solid $30 each. You paid $15 a month for ACCESS to the game world, not all of the content.

You still had to grind (sink time, continue to pay subscription) to get items, gear, levels, fluff -- whatever. You couldn't just buy a finished character with lots of gold.

MWO gives you the ability to access the game world and everything available for free. If you want it sooner, you need to spend some money. If you're really still upset about spending $1.50 on additional mechbays, consider that your $15 subscription cost. If you want to go to Panda Island and play as a Panda, you need to buy their expansion, consider that the Premium Mech cost.

And you are annoying because you fail to understand simple thing. I don't even want to talk about blizzards reputation on prices but at least there everyone is equal like in other AAA games, when you compare prices of blizzard game to F2P game you know something is wrong. I have no problem in paying 60$+sub that is the payment model they chose and I will go with the flow but making it f2p in freemium style so only boys with big pocket can have it all is just disgusting. I wish this game was p2p at least with it you know everyone has same access to content and no ******** premium stuff.

[Gruinhardt]

Play game. Earn C-Bills. Buy new mech. Earn more C-Bills. Buy upgrades. Repeat.

That's it, that is all the current gameplay has for progression. PGI releases 1 new mech per month. Maximum cost $6.95, 1250 MC, buys 4 mech bays. I could sell mechs I don't like and not buy any Mech bays. Hero mechs, Premium time, paints, camo, statues are luxury items, not needed to be competitive.

When the Flea comes out, I will not be buying that mech. That month I will farm C-Bills to put towards the next mech I want. I will not have to spend MC for mech bays that month.

What I am trying to say is. In its current state, the most I would have to spend is $6.95 per month. That is only if every mech PGI releases is a must have. And that is only if I want to collect every mech.

[Tsen Shang]

TL;DR on the rest of the thread.

KAT Ayanami, on 18 October 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Its logical that people that bought Founders or Phoenix packages will be less likely to complaint since they already agreed with the terms and conditions of the purchase.

You'd think so, but considering that half the founders don't even come around anymore (from disappointment, being treated poorly, and lied to on a consistent basis), and the other half are willing to take the punishment (or enjoy it, or don't care), it would really be more accurate to say that everyone who would complain already has, and has left. Old threads will show this.

Ecto Cooler, on 18 October 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

How much do you want to bet the majority of the complainers in this thread and others don't have a Founders Badge or Project Phoenix one?

Again, duh. Why would you stick around or continually throw money at a team that doesn't value your support, and essentially threw away a full year of development time while extending their promised timelines? That's why a lot of people aren't willing to spend money, and they're waiting to be convinced. I'm a founder and I bought all the packs because I'm a dummy, and I'm hoping that when I show back up and log in to play two years from now the game will have actually progressed. I'm expecting to be disappointed, as I have been continually over the last year.

So I should pay ridiculous prices for this {Scrap} they're shoveling out? Nah. I've never actually spent money in their store, despite having credit because the prices are absurd. I'd rather save up and get a PS4 and Xbone (Which I've actually paid off, since I have all the money I haven't spent on this game! Wheeeeee!).

Enjoy your ludicrous party of trying to convince people to pay $20 for a pack of gum.

[shadN]

1. I used to love this game.

2. I didnt play in what I guess is 2 months because nothing new is happening. Watching the development from a distance I have the feeling that PGI are milking the cow real good. Or shall we say the "whales"? Try to google that term.

I really despise that. Guys, what are you doing?

[Heffay]

Tsen Shang, on 14 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

You'd think so, but considering that half the founders don't even come around anymore (from disappointment, being treated poorly, and lied to on a consistent basis), and the other half are willing to take the punishment (or enjoy it, or don't care), it would really be more accurate to say that everyone who would complain already has, and has left.

That's a hell of an assumption.

[Sandpit]

Tsen Shang, on 14 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

TL;DR on the rest of the thread.



You'd think so, but considering that half the founders don't even come around anymore (from disappointment, being treated poorly, and lied to on a consistent basis), and the other half are willing to take the punishment (or enjoy it, or don't care), it would really be more accurate to say that everyone who would complain already has, and has left. Old threads will show this.




So I should pay ridiculous prices for this {Scrap} they're shoveling out? Nah. I've never actually spent money in their store, despite having credit because the prices are absurd. I'd rather save up and get a PS4 and Xbone (Which I've actually paid off, since I have all the money I haven't spent on this game! Wheeeeee!).

Enjoy your ludicrous party of trying to convince people to pay $20 for a pack of gum.

Hyperbole alert: I point this out no matter what side of a discussion it's coming from. You have absolutely no idea how many of those players are still around. You have an idea of how many of those players you knew personally are but that's it. False factual data is false factual data.

Uhm.....

Quote

(Which I've actually paid off, since I have all the money I haven't spent on this game! Wheeeeee!).

You DO realize everyone can see your shiny founders tag AND overlord badges right?

[Scromboid]

Gruinhardt, on 11 November 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

What is so horrifying about seeing beautiful women dancing. I dated a dancer for a while, gorgeous girl. Does that make me a bad person? Does it make her bad for being a stripper?

I was speaking specifically about my one particular experience, and it was an experience that I did not enjoy.

For me... I could not shake that feeling of utter sadness and regret this one particular dancer was putting off and it haunts me to this very day. I could say I was imagining it, or I could assume that I was just placing emotion that was not there, but I looked into her eyes, and they were sad, and dead and horribly frightened.

I say again... that was not to judge or pass moral conviction or whatever else you were being offended by. I was merely relaying ~my~ personal experience and how I never wished to relive that again.

Hope that clears things up.

[Ecto Cooler]

Scromboid, on 14 November 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

For me... I could not shake that feeling of utter sadness and regret this one particular dancer was putting off and it haunts me to this very day. I could say I was imagining it, or I could assume that I was just placing emotion that was not there, but I looked into her eyes, and they were sad, and dead and horribly frightened.

You can get that same look from a drive through teller at McDonalds, or a cashier on Black Friday.

[Tsen Shang]

Heffay, on 14 November 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

That's a hell of an assumption.

It's actually not an assumption at all. It was a number given to us by Bryan Ekman himself.

jozkhan, on 05 September 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

Bryan talks about new player numbers and player retention rates Retained more than 50% of original Founders, who still play at least monthly. "Most" of them have bought into Phoenix.

It was a pretty big deal when it was posted. The information is out there.

Sandpit, on 14 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Hyperbole alert: I point this out no matter what side of a discussion it's coming from. You have absolutely no idea how many of those players are still around. You have an idea of how many of those players you knew personally are but that's it. False factual data is false factual data.

See above. :-)

Sandpit, on 14 November 2013 - 09:22 AM, said:

Uhm.....


You DO realize everyone can see your shiny founders tag AND overlord badges right?

Oh boy, I get to quote myself!!

Tsen Shang, on 14 November 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I'm a founder and I bought all the packs because I'm a dummy, and I'm hoping that when I show back up and log in to play two years from now the game will have actually progressed.

I haven't purchased additional MC, nor have I spent the MC that I have - and I won't until prices drop drastically, which was the point I was making. Please read what I post before jumping on me.

[Talsha]

Well I shelled out $60 in Euros and
will likely shell out another $20 in December or January
depending on when the Phoenix offer ends.

With those $85 I will have gotten 3 Month of subscription and
enough mechs, mechbays and cash to basically play the game subjectively for ever.

I have to admit that there was also a good portion of hope involved,
hope that the game will grow beyond what it is right now,
an very interesting, complex, promising shooter
that yet is very limited in depth of gameplay, UI, performance, monetization model, aso.

An investment in the future was the only reason I got the package.
For what mechwarrior offers now, it was horribly overprized.
I could have gotten nearly a year of subscription out of quite a few other MMOs for that cash,
like for example rift or eve.

Individual Hero mechs or the colours are so heavily overpriced that it is obscene in my eyes.