44 replies to this topic

[NRP]

I like both, but if you have to choose only one, I feel the Victor will be more productive.

But why limit yourself? Get both. They play nothing like each other, so there is no overlap in roles.

[Bagheera]

Mira Widowmaker, on 19 October 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

I have bought my first victor. But I am still not sure... I never really use JJs (apart from Canyon-map), so I feel they are dead weight, but an interesting option.

Ma'am, that there is madness that you speak. JJs are one of Victor's greatest assets. You're familiar with counter-turning to catch faster mechs in your firing arc. Practice doing that while fluttering the JJs. Among other things.

Hell, a Victor with a sufficient engine can charge an assault, leap over it, and 180 mid-air for a second volley before landing.

If you ask me, Victor's biggest downside is that it's too easy to get overconfident and end up surrounded by reds.

[Finn McShae]

My screenshot turned out just all black (to my very large dissappointment) but last night I turned my best Orion score on my ON1-K (STD 300, 4 MLAS, AC/20, LRM15) on forest. Just shy of 900 damage and 3 kills, but a match score of 126.

I was very pleased that the other team's LRM boats all huddled up and, apparently, didn't notice me wander up behind them until 2 of them were already dead. It was like some horror movie in the woods.

[XX Sulla XX]

The key is to learn how to use JJs well. JJs are a huge advantage in a mech. Honestly JJs help so much they have spoiled me and I hate using mechs wihtout htem now.

[Odins Fist]

Between the Orion and the Voctor, I would have to say VICTOR.
The Victor does pretty much EVERYTHING BETTER then the Orion, especially after you get the ELITE pilot efficiencies unlocked.

I ran an Orion for a little bit after I had already ran a Victor for some time, it was pretty obvious which mech had the advantage in several areas over the other.

The Orion is clearly not as good a mech.

[Leeroy Mechkins]

In absolute terms, Victor is stronger than Orion.
Its got more tonnage and armor. Not much more, but still more.

But, MM matches Orions against other heavies and Victors against other assaults.
Therefore from the MM perspective, Orion is better.

If you have an Orion and the other team gets a Cataphract or Jagermech, its not too much problem to defeat even 2-3 of them if you chose the right build. However, if you have a Victor and the other team has an Atlas or a Highlander, that is going to be a much harder fight against a 20+ ton advantage.

Edited by Leeroy Mechkins, 19 October 2013 - 06:50 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

In absolute terms, Victor is stronger than Orion.
But, Victor is matched in MM against other assaults and Orion is against heavies.
A good Orion can easily kill other heavies, but not so sure if the Victor is as dominant over the other Assaults such Atlases and Highlanders.
Therefore from the MM perspective, Orion is better.

lololololol

if the MM actually worked, that might be a good point.

Last night, my team had 7 lights, and no assaults. Theirs had 6 assaults.

Great MM.

[MischiefSC]

I'm actually going to say Orion. People have issues with the CT but, no offense, I'd say that's more of a piloting issue.

I run Orions with 300std, AC20, either 2LLs or 4MLs depending on version and anywhere from 1srm6 to 3SRM4s depending on variant.

You run it like a faster, more maneuverable Atlas. Swing the torso and let sides and arms soak damage. With the wide spread on hardpoints you can (and will) lose side torsos but will still have a good 30 points of grief on the side you have left. The missile pods and AC barrel on the side torsos soak damage just fine when you SWING.

My sincere opinion on the Orion is that people are so used to XLs, they try to put them in everything and then get surprised when they get popped. Your Orion is going to have over 70 armor on the CT, the Victor is going to have less than 50 on its side torsos - which people will shoot a lot.

The Orion has about the same armor but a better profile. While it does lack JJs it scales hills better and does alright without them. JJs are nice for jump-sniping but for a brawler? Orion is a cold killin' S.O.B. They pack about the same armor in each location but the Orion is just a better balanced weapon platform for brawling IMO.

[Watchemkillem]

Fix the soft guts on the Orion and there can be a discussion. As it stands now, Victor hands down. That being said. My Protector with 3ml and dual lb10x's, is a nasty MF. But Victor is just a better mech in this game right now.

[Madwill]

A Victor. Why? Because I can run this:

max armor
max JJ's
AC-20
2 ML
2 SRM 4's

and still put in a XL 375 for 83.5 KPH with tweak.

[RandomLurker]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 October 2013 - 04:37 AM, said:

Treat the Victor like a Medium Mech on a Roid Rage, an 80 tons uberpissed Centurion on a pogostick and come at them from the sides, the backs, etc, knock the snot out them, then jump over a ridge and do it all again.

I laughed good and hard at this. Not only is it true, but also poetic.

I just finally got my Dragon Slayer elited, after a long c-bill grind (200k exp on it- AFTER unlocking everything ) , and holy hell it's almost like a new mech. It turns and accelerates almost as fast as a medium. It can't boat one weapon type as is popular, but that mix of firepower, armor and agility combined with some good battlefield sense can let you wreak some serious havok on an enemy formation.

Just don't end up IN that formation taking fire from all directions. Oops.

[HellJumper]

i will go with the orion...for some reason i could not like the victor much, maybe it has to do with the fact that i had purchased the dragon slayer and now i hate all the victors

put AC20, med lasers and srm4 on victor..get in close and you will do some serious damage to your enemy...

[Archon Adam Steiner]

I suppose it depends on what you want to do with it.

Yes, the Orion's CT is a damage magnet, but that's really only because the side torsos on the 'mech are so damn tiny. This allows one to do one of two things; fit a decent XL, or fit a standard (if one wants an AC/20 or 2x uAC/5) and know that protecting one's CT means survival.

I mostly run 12-mans of a competitive nature (RHoD, Proxis, etc.), and with tonnage limits in both leagues (and soon MW:O officially), even five tonnes can come to mean something.

What can the Victor do better? Well, being maneuverable, it's far better up-close; it can go significantly faster and it can mount an impressive close-range build, no matter the variant. It can make both a solid fire support 'mech as well as a solid brawler. Even with a standard engine, the Victor can move quickly and carry solid weapons for close-range combat.

What can the Orion do better? I'd contend it's better at long-range; unless one is relying on the old pop-tart game, the jump jets on the Victor aren't necessarily adding appreciable combat effectiveness at longer ranges. Its weapon hard-points are also more limited, and confined predominantly to the arms, to the point that every variant (particularly the K) can be 'armed' and left almost entirely ineffective. 'Arm' the Orion, and most of them are still likely packing solid torso-mounted weaponry.

The old 2x PPC/Gauss combo works well on the Orion, and you can do so with a standard engine (so no XL cook-off if the Gauss goes), and even can add in a respectable LRM or SRM component to support it. I've got an XL280 version with a PPC, uAC/5, 2x LLas, and even an SRM6 for close range... and it's even fairly heat efficient. I can't shoe-horn that onto a Victor and still expect to jump or move quickly!

TLDR: Both 'mechs are good; they're different. The only fair comparison is to look at individual variants, and go from there.

Edited by Arrachtas, 20 October 2013 - 01:05 AM.

[NRP]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

But, MM matches Orions against other heavies and Victors against other assaults.
Therefore from the MM perspective, Orion is better.

If you have an Orion and the other team gets a Cataphract or Jagermech, its not too much problem to defeat even 2-3 of them if you chose the right build. However, if you have a Victor and the other team has an Atlas or a Highlander, that is going to be a much harder fight against a 20+ ton advantage.

I understand your logic here, but I don't think it works out this way in practice, at least for PUGs. A Victor punches well above its weight (it packs basically the same firepower as that Atlas or Highlander). An average Victor pilot can kill 1-3 enemy mechs, of any kind. It takes an above average pilot to do the same in an Orion.

[Bagheera]

Leeroy Mechkins, on 19 October 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:

In absolute terms, Victor is stronger than Orion.
Its got more tonnage and armor. Not much more, but still more.

But, MM matches Orions against other heavies and Victors against other assaults.
Therefore from the MM perspective, Orion is better.

If you have an Orion and the other team gets a Cataphract or Jagermech, its not too much problem to defeat even 2-3 of them if you chose the right build. However, if you have a Victor and the other team has an Atlas or a Highlander, that is going to be a much harder fight against a 20+ ton advantage.

Sorry Bud, MM is broken and even if it wasn't, it doesn't work as you describe.

We've all had countless matches with 2+ assaults on one side and 0 assaults on the other. Heck, just last night I had a match with 8 mediums (mostly SHDs), 2 heavys (a TDR and I forget what) and 2 Lights on our side.

Other side had 4 assaults, 5 heavies, 3 lights.

MM definitely does not match class to class.

Edited by Bagheera, 20 October 2013 - 09:26 AM.

[Fuggles]

If you like utilizing missles, the Orion is going to be a better platform.

The victor however is a monster. Xl is a must for the speed and tonnage and a xl350 is a great compromise of speed/tonnage. You just leap over other assaults and **** them in the side torso from above or rear ct from behind. Lights can't get behind you with jump jets and they flee in terror from arm mounted lasers/balistics especially when combined with streaks.

I have more 1000 damage games in my victor than any other mech. The only downside to me is the variants are pretty bland, buy 3 and keep either the s or the b.

[Byzan]

I have Vics but I like the look of orions, bit more variety with the weapon layouts and I like Balistic points on the torso generally because they are up higher. There is a Huge difference between a high mount ballistic and a low mounted one.

Also im not a huge fan of jump Jets, i find I leave them off my vic a lot these days. Use a bigger engine or more heat sinks usually serves me better. JJ is good for brawling but I try and manover to flank rather than brawl

[Oppresor]

everything in my belief set says go with the Victor; however, I had a run in with an Orion a few weeks ago in Alpine. True, I had more firepower (Atlas RS) but the Orion totally outclassed me in the manoeuvrability stakes. Talking to some of those that run the Orion, I am told that it almost packs the same firepower as well. So maybe, just maybe go with the Orion.

[NRP]

I still say get both. No reason to limit yourself.

[Anjian]

I will go with the Orion here, but barely. The reason for this is that the Victor holds its ballistics in a low slung, which has issues clearing obstacles and loses some accuracy if you are firing sideways with a torso twist. The weapon is frequently lost when the arm is torn off. On the Orion, a ballistic like AC20 is secured in the chest, much harder to destroy, clears obstacles higher. Being situated nearer the axis of your viewpoint, it's also more accurate and easier to aim. But of course, it loses some elevation flexibility and that's quite apparent in places like Mordor or the Alps. And the Victor has jumpjets. Which is why I say barely. But in the end, I like more the way the Orion shoots its ballistics. Definitely one of the best AC20 mechs in the game.