6 replies to this topic

[AC]

Alright. There have been numerous thread on this, but no one has presented hard fact about what size each mech should be. So I took a quick (and really rough, no judging) mech model and gave the material in it a constant mass. I then resized the model multiple times so that it would weigh different weights and then placed them next to eachother to get an idea of scale. I used a humanoid mech (bonus points if you can guess what it is through my poor artistic rendering).

Based on what I am seeing, it seems that assault mechs might be a tad too small, heavies look about right, mediums are way too big, and light mechs (depending on model) might be a slight bit too small. But this is without a side by side comparison of the in game models. So I need your help. Next time your premade drops, could you get some picks of mechs that fall into roughly these tonnage sizes? (I know we don't have a humanoid 20 tonner or 40 tonner, but anything close would give a good idea of scale.)

[LauLiao]

If it were only this simple...

[Strum Wealh]

Looks like a Clint, perhaps?

And, technically, it is possible to get the in-game models from the files located on your hard drive - with that and some modeling/rendering software (I've heard of the free CryEngine SDK and Blender being successfully used for these purposes), you'd be able to stand the 'Mechs next to each other in a "white room" environment.

[FupDup]

AC, on 18 October 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

Alright. There have been numerous thread on this, but no one has presented hard fact about what size each mech should be. So I took a quick (and really rough, no judging) mech model and gave the material in it a constant mass. I then resized the model multiple times so that it would weigh different weights and then placed them next to eachother to get an idea of scale.

Your experiment doesn't really present hard facts about what sizes "should be." It might presents what they would be in terms of realism, but just because it's realistic doesn't mean it should be that way in the context of a video game. We're playing a game about fighting giant robots across the galaxy, after all, so that approach is doomed to fail for obvious reasons. The one and only criteria we can use is gameplay, i.e. is a mech sized in a way such that it is useful to its team and desirable to play?


That said, mediums are in fact too large right now, but for the different reason of that they need to be harder to hit to help justify their armor and firepower sacrifices (similar to lights but to a lesser extent). Assaults seem to be fine excluding the Stalker (which definitely needs a bit of an upscaling). Lights don't need any size increase, if anything the Raven might need a small size decrease to bring it in-line with the Jenner. The Dragon, Quickdraw, and Catapult heavies could use a bit of a decrease in size.

Edited by FupDup, 18 October 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[Marlowe Lecter]

One thing I'm noticing in a good number of these size posts is (and its usually on the side of folks who think the Mediums are too big) is the lack of though about how any tons of armor a mech has.

Lets break it down like this - Say I'm 5'8" (a short guy) I weight about 145. Now lets add the your basic clothing, jeans, a t-shirt, a long sleeve shirt, a belt, and shoes. Now I'm about 150 (probably more).

Now I'm gonna go outside to shovel some winter snow. We add boots instead of shoes, extra layers, gloves, a hat, a scarf and a full winter coat. Now I'm up to about 170 or so.

Now lets say I'm in an episode of the Walking Dead and I find one of those full body armor outfits. A bullet proof vest, helmet, padded pants and kneepads with combat boots. I don't know exactly how much I'd weight but I'm guessing its alot more than 170. Thus my weight changes without radically changing my height.

So mech weight is NOT just a function of height. Width, depth (having a wide side profile), and the thickness of the armor on the various parts are also part of the weight.

To me its not some weird thing that breaks the game. The fact that the Shadow Hawk is tall does not ruin the game for me. Yes MWO doesn't stay exactly true to the Table Top descriptions of mechs' heights, and that would have been nice, but I think there are ALOT more pressing things the devs can be working on.

[keith]

Marlowe Lecter, on 18 October 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

One thing I'm noticing in a good number of these size posts is (and its usually on the side of folks who think the Mediums are too big) is the lack of though about how any tons of armor a mech has.

Lets break it down like this - Say I'm 5'8" (a short guy) I weight about 145. Now lets add the your basic clothing, jeans, a t-shirt, a long sleeve shirt, a belt, and shoes. Now I'm about 150 (probably more).

Now I'm gonna go outside to shovel some winter snow. We add boots instead of shoes, extra layers, gloves, a hat, a scarf and a full winter coat. Now I'm up to about 170 or so.

Now lets say I'm in an episode of the Walking Dead and I find one of those full body armor outfits. A bullet proof vest, helmet, padded pants and kneepads with combat boots. I don't know exactly how much I'd weight but I'm guessing its alot more than 170. Thus my weight changes without radically changing my height.

So mech weight is NOT just a function of height. Width, depth (having a wide side profile), and the thickness of the armor on the various parts are also part of the weight.

To me its not some weird thing that breaks the game. The fact that the Shadow Hawk is tall does not ruin the game for me. Yes MWO doesn't stay exactly true to the Table Top descriptions of mechs' heights, and that would have been nice, but I think there are ALOT more pressing things the devs can be working on.

don't be quoting TT description of mechs. they almost follow the wep stats to a T, yet the mechs models are no where near TT. they say they follow "density". a load of {Scrap} that is, does not make any balanced mech sizes. half the mechs are too big.

[AC]

FupDup, on 18 October 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Your experiment doesn't really present hard facts about what sizes "should be." It might presents what they would be in terms of realism, but just because it's realistic doesn't mean it should be that way in the context of a video game. We're playing a game about fighting giant robots across the galaxy, after all, so that approach is doomed to fail for obvious reasons. The one and only criteria we can use is gameplay, i.e. is a mech sized in a way such that it is useful to its team and desirable to play?


That said, mediums are in fact too large right now, but for the different reason of that they need to be harder to hit to help justify their armor and firepower sacrifices (similar to lights but to a lesser extent). Assaults seem to be fine excluding the Stalker (which definitely needs a bit of an upscaling). Lights don't need any size increase, if anything the Raven might need a small size decrease to bring it in-line with the Jenner. The Dragon, Quickdraw, and Catapult heavies could use a bit of a decrease in size.

Which is why I did this. I am not trying to say "All mediums need to be X size", but instead give a scale so that we can look at the individual mechs. I was hoping to get some opinions out of the community as a whole first, but might as well post my 2-cents on a few mechs.

Locust - Seems a bit too large for a 20ton mech
Spider - Seems a bit too small for a 30ton mech
Raven - Maybe a hair too large now that its hitboxes have been fixed
Hunche - The hump makes it vulnerable, so might be too big, but there are worse mechs
Treb - Way too large for its size and armor. Makes it a liability
"Golden Boy" - First time I saw it in game, I thought it was an assault mech.
Shadow Hawk - Too large and could be scaled down some.
Catapult - It is a bit too large, which makes it incredibly easy to land damage to a single section repeatedly
Stalker - seems to be about the same size as the catapult
Highlander - looks to be a bit small compared to the heavy class
atlas - Same as the highlander.

Edited by AC, 21 October 2013 - 08:03 AM.