251 replies to this topic

[Felio]

Ghost heat didn't really affect the AC/40. It still does way too much damage. You usually do not have the luxury of picking off this mech with ER Large Lasers.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

I've had that firepower on Heavies since the mid 80s!!!

I don't believe you - your heavys in the mid 80's havn't got a targeting computer - the only thing that gives you a good abillity to hit a single spot in BT with 40dmg....although its 20dmg when transfered back to TT...however the issue - no targeting computer remains.

[Joseph Mallan]

Karl Streiger, on 22 October 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I don't believe you - your heavys in the mid 80's havn't got a targeting computer - the only thing that gives you a good abillity to hit a single spot in BT with 40dmg....although its 20dmg when transfered back to TT...however the issue - no targeting computer remains.

Did I say anything about targeting computers? I said I could put 2 AC20s on a 60-75 ton Mech. Are we complaining about convergence or that I can put two BFGs on a heavy chassis. You don't have to believe me. I know what I did.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 October 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Did I say anything about targeting computers? I said I could put 2 AC20s on a 60-75 ton Mech. Are we complaining about convergence or that I can put two BFGs on a heavy chassis. You don't have to believe me. I know what I did.

Of course you did - the JaegerMechs stock armament are 14t for each arm.
With given armor that are 5tons of ammunition.
Although the best heavy AC 20 carrier would have been a 75ton mech right?

Of course 2 AC 20 in TT are some what of ineffective - if you don't mix it with other weapons.

BTT: there is a reason it is called AC 40 not dual AC 20.

[Joseph Mallan]

Which inturns brings me back to my point. 2 AC 20s on TT were more dangerous than they are here. The threat of 2 AC20 focus firing on one location was a death knell to all but the largest Mech Here it is equal to one AC20 from TT. Maybe that's why I am not in the complaining camp. AC40 damage is what I am used to seeing or 30 years in Mech on Mech combat.

A slight correction. Since I have to have 2 AC20s hit one location, I am actually getting a worse return in MW:O. 2 AC20 on TT will do the equivalent damage of 4 AC20 here. Cause I am doing 20 damage in two locations that have half the damage. My TT dual AC20 does phenomenal damage. I can hit a Jenner in 2 locations shreading both on TT with just 2 AC20.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 October 2013 - 07:22 AM.

[AC]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

Did I say anything about targeting computers? I said I could put 2 AC20s on a 60-75 ton Mech. Are we complaining about convergence or that I can put two BFGs on a heavy chassis. You don't have to believe me. I know what I did.

I'll back you up. I also had a Loki in MW4 with 2LBX20+LBX10. But that was a different game and the weapons fired more than half as often as in MWO. MW4 also had limited weapons slots so that even though I could make that config, I couldn't make 3 gauss or 3AC20 or 2 RAC20 etc....

[Joseph Mallan]

@AC, Though you can make those builds here you do so at your own risk.

[Elwood Blues]

The AC20 does some great on point damage, but you have to sacrifice a fair amount to carry it. It's heavy, hot, short ranged, and you get only 7 rounds per ton of ammo. The AC40 Jager is not slow, but it has an XL engine with easy to kill torsos. If it doesn't have an XL it is very, very slow. Same with the AC40 K2.

They are high pinpoint damage mechs but die very quickly when focused on. The slow versions may live a little longer under fire, but are easy to out maneuver.

The AC40 mech is fun, but the 4X AC5 mech is actually more dangerous. 4 more tons in weapons but a longer range, very low heat, more damage per ton of ammo (30x5 dmg = 150 vs 7x20dmg = 140). The AC5 also cycles a lot faster. The only thing you sacrifice is the pinpoint damage. However, constantly hitting an enemy has it's benefits too.

[Khobai]

Quote

Nah...AC 20 has a real optimum range of 400m - till this range there is not a single weapon that deal more damage in a single shot

um no it has an optimum range of 270m. Beyond that it does less than full damage.

[Selfish]

Khobai, on 22 October 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

um no it has an optimum range of 270m. Beyond that it does less than full damage.

It still has OHKO potential out to 350m, which is why so many AC/40 pilots consider longer than 270 its 'sweet spot'.

[Joseph Mallan]

Selfish, on 22 October 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

It still has OHKO potential out to 350m, which is why so many AC/40 pilots consider longer than 270 its 'sweet spot'.

v the cooler running, lighter, longer range of a couple Gauss!

[Odwalla]

My ELO must be going up because last night almost every match I played was mainly mechs with 2xPPC + Gauss and a hand full of AC40 Jagers. I've died plenty of times just turning a corner into an AC40 Jager and that's pretty much GG. Once you're in optimal range, you're dead.

I'm not necessarily complaining or saying it should be changed. It just got annoying after a while.

[Selfish]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

v the cooler running, lighter, longer range of a couple Gauss!

They're very different platforms. The 2x Gauss can't OHKO, can't fire instantly, has the lowest DPS of all ballistics except machine guns, and weighs more. Its new speed is nice with its added range. Their play styles differ greatly. I would never consider trying to go for primary HS on dual gauss. On the 40 you shoot for the head, if you hit it instantly kills every mech in the game. If you miss you strike CT so yolo.

The reason I brought up OHKO's is that it hasn't been discussed here, even though it was a large reason for ghost heat and the gauss change. It delinked and discouraged convergence on the majority of 33+ combos. The AC/40 remains the most accessible in sheer ease of use. It only requires heat management, which it has the least problem with out of all remaining combos.

[RetroActive]

Karl Streiger, on 22 October 2013 - 06:15 AM, said:

You started in October... so you still must know that it wasn't that way all the time.
I can live without artifical convergence - cone of fire elements - but i really want the convergence time of CB back. Even the short "break" between triggering a weapon and the shot.
It should be more difficutl to hit targets...not that easy as it is actuall....oh and a really good example why current convergence is snafu:
I stand toe on toe with a enemy battleMaster...there was no room between us, and still I was able to hit his cockpit with my machine guns in the left arm of my Thunderbolt - as well as with the large laser of in the right arm.

So tell me - you wan't to hit were you aim - even when the muzzle of that weapons should have been 40m behind you?

I started in October 2012 at the beginning of open beta. Convergence has been the same throughout my MWO career. I do remember the shot delay, though, and I did not like it. If I fire a weapon, it should fire immediately.

For realism's sake, I can see where you're coming from in regards to being able to hit a cockpit when you're face to face with another mech. This game isn't really all that realistic though, so it doesn't bother me. If they set an arbitrary minimum 20m convergence distance it wouldn't bother me all that much. Any other strange convergence mechanics outside of that would make the game a little less enjoyable for me.

[CygnusX7]

Press R.
Look at the top right of your screen.
If you see:

AC20
AC20

and one or more is not red stay at a distance and break the AC40 MONSTER down.

Survive!

[Xeno Phalcon]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 October 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

v the cooler running, lighter, exploding, longer range of a couple Gauss!

[Karl Streiger]

RetroActive, on 22 October 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

I started in October 2012 at the beginning of open beta. Convergence has been the same throughout my MWO career. I do remember the shot delay, though, and I did not like it. If I fire a weapon, it should fire immediately.

For realism's sake, I can see where you're coming from in regards to being able to hit a cockpit when you're face to face with another mech. This game isn't really all that realistic though, so it doesn't bother me. If they set an arbitrary minimum 20m convergence distance it wouldn't bother me all that much. Any other strange convergence mechanics outside of that would make the game a little less enjoyable for me.

You know that there is still the Elite Perk - but not working. So basically you had some convergence times - afaik until end of January. You could see such things when using ballistic like weapons in the arms (including PPC)

And you could have seen it when you fire your lasers from multiple locations into a target while brawling and did not lock on that target using "R"

And I believe you still have that mechanics in the training grounds but I'm not 100% sure about that.

[KAT Ayanami]

Again, just reduce the maximum distance.

[Loc Nar]

AC40 wasn't even op when it was op, op.

[Clarice Creed]

Did PGI state that they want to keep the pinpoint damage we currently have? I'd think a changing reticule based on movement and heat would reflect TT hit-modifiers better and also reduce many of the pinpoint alpha strike issues, maybe to the point that they can reverse the ghost heat. If an explanation for not using convergence or other non-pinpoint aiming models exists I'd be glad if someone could link it.