440 replies to this topic

[Dimento Graven]

William Mountbank, on 20 November 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

So PGI never devote resources to fixing 'nothing'? Plenty of evidence has been posted showing problems with HSR, and the change PGI seem to have made clearly shows that there was nothing particularly wrong. The biggest difference seems to be that Spiders will now take slightly more leg damage and slightly less CT damage, as will the Atlas.
I am certain that people who were reporting that stationary Spiders do not take damage will find no changes to their gaming experience in this patch.

But anyway, now that PGI have 'fixed' it, all the future forum tears will be crocodile ones.

Don't be such a dramatic ***. They fixed some things on the Spiders, they obviously haven't fixed ALL THE OTHER problems that exist in the game that add to the difficulty killing Spiders.

Yeah, yeah, you wanted them to spin their wheels not touching your beloved Spiders, but sorry, too much evidence stacked up against it and when they looked at it on their end, they obviously found some things that needed changing.

Once we get HSR, detection, etc. resolved ALL 'mechs, including the Spider will play more 'reasonably'.

[William Mountbank]

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Don't be such a dramatic ***.
Yeah, yeah, you wanted them to spin their wheels not touching your beloved Spiders, but sorry, too much evidence stacked up against it and when they looked at it on their end, they obviously found some things that needed changing.

I assume the *** = lad?
I don't have a problem with them fixing issues with mechs. I play plenty of other mechs besides the Spider, and in heavy mechs with big engines and SSRMs I have never observed a problem with Spiders, I kill them just fine. If it's different for you then hopefully you find it less so now.
You accuse me of wanting to preserve my favourite mech, and sure, I don't want it to be totally gimped - the current just a bit gimped is ok by me. But I accuse you of wanting to nerf a mech you don't pilot, and that already deals less damage and has worse hardpoints than most other mechs in the game.

[Clit Beastwood]

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

We'll have to just be in disagreement here. You don't invest the cost of programmers and testers to fix, 'nothing'. Pretty much the evidence has been posted, PGI found something wrong, and has made a change to address it.

Yes, the rocks, hills, and other terrain objects (buildings, cars, et al) should be looked into as well. It's like they reach out, 20 feet beyond their 'drawn' location and block.

So far, for me at least, it's making almost zero difference.. though I'm a practitioner of "don't be where bullets are". If you can see me, I am currently failing at being a spider 5d. Ninja! What I *hope* it cuts down on are the 5k trials standing in front of someone blasting away with MG's. I've said it before and I'll say it again - the only one that ever seemed to take an inordinate amount of damage were the 5k's, though I may be falling for the same confirmation bias as everyone else. If I'm in a spider I can stand roughly 40-50m in front of most jagers and their arm mounted weapons (except lbx!) can't reliably hit me. I think a lot of it might have more to do with the widespread "huggy" stance of the jager.

And Dimento - you have such a wicked hate-***** for spiders man! Did you get bit as a kid?
I don't seem to drop against you in my preferred spider, only when I run my heavy metal.... never did get to test gauss vs spider :| - I tried things from the other side, ran a dual gauss firebrand and my rounds kept going on either side of spiders (and I couldn't hit a trebuchets legs) - if I aimed at a spider's left shoulder my right side gauss would CT them though. I still think its a convergence thing. Is there any other mech that can pack dual gauss that's closer together to test? Do you have the same issue with dual PPC in the arms of a firebrand?

I got shot out of the air like ***** while flying around in my 12jj 5v this morning before work. That was pretty funny. Both legs red, dual LBX atlas shot off both legs in midair.

Edited by Fierostetz, 20 November 2013 - 09:00 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Mehlan, on 06 November 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Really? Link & quote it. :-)

go into ask the devs look a little. There's no zing they are. They have stated it in several places so run a search.

[Dimento Graven]

William Mountbank, on 20 November 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

I assume the *** = lad?
I don't have a problem with them fixing issues with mechs. I play plenty of other mechs besides the Spider, and in heavy mechs with big engines and SSRMs I have never observed a problem with Spiders, I kill them just fine. If it's different for you then hopefully you find it less so now.
You accuse me of wanting to preserve my favourite mech, and sure, I don't want it to be totally gimped - the current just a bit gimped is ok by me. But I accuse you of wanting to nerf a mech you don't pilot, and that already deals less damage and has worse hardpoints than most other mechs in the game.

I own and pilot semi-regularly 3 different Spiders. It's not a point I bring up because it's valueless in this discussion. When it comes to guided missile damage, Spiders are fairly vulnerable, but that's because there's additional mechanics used to control hits and hit detection on SSRM's and LRM's, which gets to circumvent the 'WYSSYG' expectation that all other direct fire weapons have.

With streaks and LRM's all you have to worry about is getting and maintaining a lock, and that the Spider doesn't fire cover before missiles arrive and you're guaranteed some level of hit. When it comes to direct fire weapons, you aim at the Spider, see the Spider get hit, but then don't see the expected outcome of damage being registered.

Hit box, HSR, detection issues et al, need to be addressed. Obviously they found some on the Spider and have made those adjustments.

[Dimento Graven]

Fierostetz, on 20 November 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

...
And Dimento - you have such a wicked hate-***** for spiders man! Did you get bit as a kid?
I don't seem to drop against you in my preferred spider, only when I run my heavy metal.... never did get to test gauss vs spider :| - I tried things from the other side, ran a dual gauss firebrand and my rounds kept going on either side of spiders (and I couldn't hit a trebuchets legs) - if I aimed at a spider's left shoulder my right side gauss would CT them though. I still think its a convergence thing. Is there any other mech that can pack dual gauss that's closer together to test? Do you have the same issue with dual PPC in the arms of a firebrand?

I got shot out of the air like ***** while flying around in my 12jj 5v this morning before work. That was pretty funny. Both legs red, dual LBX atlas shot off both legs in midair.

It's not a hatred of Spiders, I'm angry with all the denial there was around this issue from the Spider advocates. Plenty of evidence was posted, then all the BS attempts and discounting that evidence, then all the denials that the evidence was even valid, AND THEN all the fresh denials that PGI DID find problems and fix them.

It's totally stupid how most of the Spider advocates do nothing but deny there's an issue or attempt to deny the need of Spider specific fixes be implemented, the "...do everything else FIRST..." theory of addressing the Spider issues.

When I'm in a match, not playing a Spider, if I see a Spider (or ANY light for that matter), unless I'm facing down something that can kill me quickly, I make them a priority target while they are visible to me, if for no other reason than I need more practice killing them.

[Clit Beastwood]

We'll I don't mind fixing a problem, but as of yet only experienced one issue ever and it was a single tanky 5k with a high ping. Without a better environment to replicate the issue more consistently, there's no way to prove a) the issue exists vs variables like network latency or hsr, or that it's been fixed. What I don't want is for them to artificially inflate the hitboxes so when hsr finally works it's not worth running (3L !!!). Beyond that, I don't care. I miss being the only batpoo crazy spider pilot in all my drops

I don't often brawl in a spider though, these days I'm focusing on giving back to the community... As an LRM social worker- finding those missiles some good homes

[Livebait]

The Spider is now in line with the other mechs. I actually can leg the mech now. Before an alpha strike to a leg would blow off an arm. So the patch is working. I killed several Spiders by myself in the commando last night. The Spider threads will now be over with. About time if you ask me.

[Clit Beastwood]

It's funny now to go back and read all the threads about how useless and squishy spiders used to be

Livebait, on 20 November 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

The Spider is now in line with the other mechs. I actually can leg the mech now. Before an alpha strike to a leg would blow off an arm. So the patch is working. I killed several Spiders by myself in the commando last night. The Spider threads will now be over with. About time if you ask me.

The threads will keep complaining until it's a one click kill for any pilot regardless of skill or loadout.

[Tesunie]

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

We'll have to just be in disagreement here. You don't invest the cost of programmers and testers to fix, 'nothing'. Pretty much the evidence has been posted, PGI found something wrong, and has made a change to address it.

Yes, the rocks, hills, and other terrain objects (buildings, cars, et al) should be looked into as well. It's like they reach out, 20 feet beyond their 'drawn' location and block.

PGI made some changes and simplified the hit box shapes. Beyound that, I didn't see no "They where broken and we fixed them". I see them applying a new hit box system on them that is being applied to all mechs now. Otherwise, then the Atlas, Awesome and Orion must have been buggy too, running by your same logic.They must have had bad hit boxes that were resulting in them being invincible as well (seen as I've come across more than one red CT Internal Atlas that wouldn't die despite being out numbered).

Just because they made changes to a mech doesn't mean that there was necessarily a problem with that mech, just means that they improved it.

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2013 - 08:02 AM, said:

Don't be such a dramatic ***. They fixed some things on the Spiders, they obviously haven't fixed ALL THE OTHER problems that exist in the game that add to the difficulty killing Spiders.

Yeah, yeah, you wanted them to spin their wheels not touching your beloved Spiders, but sorry, too much evidence stacked up against it and when they looked at it on their end, they obviously found some things that needed changing.

Once we get HSR, detection, etc. resolved ALL 'mechs, including the Spider will play more 'reasonably'.

Why is it whenever someone says something counter to what you say, they must be "wanting to keep their broken spiders"?

PS: Did you see my long posts (4 of them total) a page or two ago? I noticed you conveniently didn't respond to the screen shots and analysis provided from my testing.

Dimento Graven, on 20 November 2013 - 09:20 AM, said:

It's not a hatred of Spiders, I'm angry with all the denial there was around this issue from the Spider advocates. Plenty of evidence was posted, then all the BS attempts and discounting that evidence, then all the denials that the evidence was even valid, AND THEN all the fresh denials that PGI DID find problems and fix them.

It's totally stupid how most of the Spider advocates do nothing but deny there's an issue or attempt to deny the need of Spider specific fixes be implemented, the "...do everything else FIRST..." theory of addressing the Spider issues.

When I'm in a match, not playing a Spider, if I see a Spider (or ANY light for that matter), unless I'm facing down something that can kill me quickly, I make them a priority target while they are visible to me, if for no other reason than I need more practice killing them.

Most of us weren't denying anything. Many of us posting here was saying "We don't know if the Spider has a hit box issue, as other issues make it hard to impossible to determine this". Shall I quote and post my 4 previous posts from a short while back?

And what's wrong with having a root problem that effects EVERY MECH IN THE GAME to be solved before trying to approach a problem that EFFECTS A SINGLE MECH IN THE GAME? Wouldn't fixing the problem involving more mechs be more beneficial? That was all I'm pointing out. Nice "snide" remark on me though...

I've done testing. I've taken screen shots. I found a problem of the shoulder hit boxes being slightly (and by slightly, I mean very very minor) too small on the Spider after the arm(s) were destroyed. The damaged sections sticking out didn't seem to have a hit box.

However, I found instead to my surprise, that the Jenner had more "hit transfer issues" than the Spider seemed to. The Jenner also had a rather large black hole for damage in the shoulder joint after the arm was destroyed. Why aren't you complaining about that more? I found it. Shot into it several tests in a row (restarting testing grounds to retest) and provided screen shot evidence of the issue as well. You, conveniently ignore the posts.


Out of everyone, you are the one who is "ignoring information and facts that go counter to your argument", not us. I investigated the issues on Testing Grounds, and saw none of the issues your older videos from several patchs back found. I also was able to replicate the damage transfer bug you reported, however on more than just the Spider proving that it wasn't a Spider specific issue. Someone else posted that video of a Cataphrat taking hits but no damage for 15 solid seconds (no paper doll damage and no health percentage drops). And yet, you refuted it all as irrelevant, or just ignored it and never responded.


Later on today, when I get a chance, I shall be testing the new changes in the game on the testing grounds. I shall report back here with what I find then. I do not wish to say anything definitive on the subject about the changes done to the Spider (and other mechs) till I get a chance to test them myself and see what has changed. However, from what I am hearing here, they were so minor as to almost be nonexistent (besides the split of the pelvic area into legs).

[mekabuser]

was there ever a time the spider wasnt broken.? even when you couldnt pay someone to take one?
im curious about that.

[Dimento Graven]

Tesunie, on 20 November 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

PGI made some changes and simplified the hit box shapes. Beyound that, I didn't see no "They where broken and we fixed them". I see them applying a new hit box system on them that is being applied to all mechs now. Otherwise, then the Atlas, Awesome and Orion must have been buggy too, running by your same logic.They must have had bad hit boxes that were resulting in them being invincible as well (seen as I've come across more than one red CT Internal Atlas that wouldn't die despite being out numbered).

See, we're back to ultra denial from a Spider lover here. Why do I say that? Because he ignores the other sentence and then tries to apply faulty logic, based on the missing information he's ignoring. Let's look at the whole quote on hit boxes, and I'll do my best to interpret:

Quote

Hitbox Tuning

Atlas:

- Hitbox geometry aligned better to the render geometry.
- Tighter corridor for Center Torso (it's smaller and sides are bigger).
- Pelvis adjusted for damage disbursement to left and right leg instead of all center torso.
- This BattleMech will still be investigated.

Awesome:

- Head hitbox reduced by 35%.
- More of the shoulder regions now apply damage to L/R Side Torsos rather than Center Torso.
- Pelvis split to apply damage to Left and Right Leg instead of Center Torso.
- Center Torso has been reduced by approximately 15-20%.

Spider:

- Hitbox geometry reduced in complexity and increased in size to encompass components more thoroughly.
- Split Pelvis to apply damage to Left and Right Leg instead of Center Torso.
- The Left REAR Torso and Right REAR Torso have been increased in size by approximately 10%.
- The front Center Torso has been increased in size (around the chest area) by approximately 10%.

Orion:

- Head hitbox reduced by 30%.
- Split Pelvis to apply damage to Left and Right Leg instead of Center Torso.
- Front Center Torso decreased in size by approximately 10%. Side torsos increased by about 5% on each side.

Atlas-
Atlas hit boxes were wrong, they had to realigned to match the visual.
They decided the CT was too big and the ST's were too small.
They added the 'thong'.
They believe their might be more issues.

Awesome-
They decided the head hit box was too big.
They decided the ST's were to small, and the CT too big.
They added the thong.
They decided the CT was too big.

Spider -
They found the hit box geometry was 'too complex', AND, that hit boxes weren't completely covering the components. The first part may not indicate a problem, the second part, definitely does.
They added the thong.
They decided the rear ST's were too small.
They decided the front CT was too small.

Orion-
PGI decided the head hit box was too big.
The thong was added.
They decided that the front CT was too big, that the ST's were too small.

In none of the other 'mechs do I see any indication that they'd found that the hit boxes were to small to completely cover the components.

The Spider, by far, sounds like hit had more work done to it. No other 'mech had geometry issues.

Quote

Just because they made changes to a mech doesn't mean that there was necessarily a problem with that mech, just means that they improved it.

Except where they specifically mention that the hit box sizes needed to be increased to 'thoroughly cover' the components.

I'm sorry they didn't use the words, "broke" and "bug" and "we f'd up", but that's the world of spin we live in now.

Quote

Why is it whenever someone says something counter to what you say, they must be "wanting to keep their broken spiders"?

PS: Did you see my long posts (4 of them total) a page or two ago? I noticed you conveniently didn't respond to the screen shots and analysis provided from my testing.

I don't have to respond to your EVERY post in this thread, nor do I give a {Scrap} about "static" screen shots. Also, here's my response: You're analysis is wrong. Why: REASONS!

It's about the same level of response I got with full motion video posts.

Plus the fact that the appeared to me to be obvious ploys to hijack the thread from discussing the Spider's issues.

Quote

Most of us weren't denying anything. Many of us posting here was saying "We don't know if the Spider has a hit box issue, as other issues make it hard to impossible to determine this". Shall I quote and post my 4 previous posts from a short while back?

And what's wrong with having a root problem that effects EVERY MECH IN THE GAME to be solved before trying to approach a problem that EFFECTS A SINGLE MECH IN THE GAME? Wouldn't fixing the problem involving more mechs be more beneficial? That was all I'm pointing out. Nice "snide" remark on me though...

If you don't believe that most of the Spider advocates aren't denying an issue, then your comprehension is faulty, and if you don't think making statements to the effect, "Fix EVERYTHING ELSE FIRST, THEN, touch my Spider" doesn't SCREAM, "wanting to keep your broken Spider" to everyone else who has acknowledged and reasoned that there is an issue with Spiders, well, again... Comprehension.

Quote

I've done testing. I've taken screen shots. I found a problem of the shoulder hit boxes being slightly (and by slightly, I mean very very minor) too small on the Spider after the arm(s) were destroyed. The damaged sections sticking out didn't seem to have a hit box.

I've done testing, provided full motion video and found issues that, while minor to you, when combined with the other known issues with HSR, hit detection, etc., add up to a major problem with a particular chassis.

Quote

However, I found instead to my surprise, that the Jenner had more "hit transfer issues" than the Spider seemed to. The Jenner also had a rather large black hole for damage in the shoulder joint after the arm was destroyed. Why aren't you complaining about that more? I found it. Shot into it several tests in a row (restarting testing grounds to retest) and provided screen shot evidence of the issue as well. You, conveniently ignore the posts.

I ignore your posts on the Jenner because this is a Spider thread. Again, just like the 5 year old trying to get out of trouble by tattling on his sibling, the Spider lovers try and make an issue with another 'mech MORE of a priority. It was an obvious ploy I decided not to validate it by responding, but since you've made such an issue of it, there you go.

If you'd like to start a thread on Jenners, I'd be more than happy to join in on it and call for the problems to be fixed. However, as this is a thread on SPIDER issues, I choose to not let the conversation be hijacked for any significant duration.

Quote

Out of everyone, you are the one who is "ignoring information and facts that go counter to your argument", not us. I investigated the issues on Testing Grounds, and saw none of the issues your older videos from several patchs back found.

OMG! OH MY F'ING GAWD! I ignore the facts that don't apply to the Spider, I don't give a rats butt about the Jenner in this thread. As far as my videos go, the ones I created and posted are WERE NO WHERE NEAR as old as you're trying to make them out to be. Hell the one I created in testing grounds is now only ONE patch old so I don't want EVER want you try that again.

And you wonder why I've started to ignore your posts.

Quote

I also was able to replicate the damage transfer bug you reported, however on more than just the Spider proving that it wasn't a Spider specific issue. Someone else posted that video of a Cataphrat taking hits but no damage for 15 solid seconds (no paper doll damage and no health percentage drops). And yet, you refuted it all as irrelevant, or just ignored it and never responded.

I pointed out the issues with the movie. We don't know this person's ping at the time, we say a significant problem with the video stopping for a period of time, where we lose information at a CRITICAL analysis juncture (was the paper doll showing damage flash or not, we don't know, the video froze during that period), but yet again here we have that dissemination, "Oh, you can't fix Spider yet, there other bigger 'mechs that have problems, you gotta fix first before touching my Spider..."

Again, you want post that in a Cataphract specific thread calling fixes, by all means do so, BUT THIS AIN'T THE F'ING CATAPHRACT THREAD, STOP TRYING TO HIJACK IT...

Quote

Later on today, when I get a chance, I shall be testing the new changes in the game on the testing grounds. I shall report back here with what I find then. I do not wish to say anything definitive on the subject about the changes done to the Spider (and other mechs) till I get a chance to test them myself and see what has changed. However, from what I am hearing here, they were so minor as to almost be nonexistent (besides the split of the pelvic area into legs).

Changes were made, I saw probably 50 percent less Spiders in game yesterday, based on that observation I surmise that some people are noticing the Spider is a bit less unreasonably hardy.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 20 November 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

mekabuser, on 20 November 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

was there ever a time the spider wasnt broken.? even when you couldnt pay someone to take one?
im curious about that.

I used to get tk'd for "being a waste of a team slot". Not sure when it changed, but spiders used to be hated for being an absolute waste of tonnage. That's when I started running them. Apparently, somewhere along the line someone got killed by one, posted on the forums, and others noticed that they were getting killed by "a waste of tonnage", and suddenly it was OP and "borked" and "easymode". If you do some forum searching you can find threads.





Dimento. I greatly enjoy arguing with you we need beers!

Edited by Fierostetz, 20 November 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Vanguard319]

Corwin Vickers, on 21 October 2013 - 08:07 PM, said:

Except my client doesn't have that problem because it's not a bug, it's people's third world internet connections.

It's one thing to hear about these godly fast technologies like FiOS and Google fiber, it's another to actually have them available in your area, the harsh reality is that Internet providers are unwilling to commit to offering such services in areas that they don't believe to be profitable. Hell, the fastest I can get in my area is Verizon DSL at 3 Mb/s, you have to travel to the next town over before Verizon will even offer FiOS as an option. My local politicians will happily spend $5 million on a trio of wind turbines that can be seen for miles, but modernizing basic utilities like the phone lines is apparently too costly.

[Dimento Graven]

Vanguard319, on 20 November 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

...
My local politicians will happily spend $5 million on a trio of wind turbines that can be seen for miles, but modernizing basic utilities like the phone lines is apparently too costly.

Don't be too harsh on them. The phone lines are owned by your local providers, however it's possible your power plant is owned by the local municipality (which typically charges a lot less than privately owned power companies as municipal power plants really only have to cover costs, not show ungodly amounts of profit to give to executives).

If your local ISP's aren't willing to invest in upgrading the infrastructure, it's not your local politician's fault, I'd blame the providers. There's {Scrap} tons of government subsidies for Telco improvement, crimany, every damn bill we're taxed for it, so why they won't do it, is beyond me.

Fierostetz, on 20 November 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Dimento. I greatly enjoy arguing with you we need beers!

You'd have to come here to Texas, I can't stand to endure Cali all that much, BUT, the kegerator's loaded, and I got a freezer full of frosted mugs!

[Clit Beastwood]

Vanguard319, on 20 November 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

It's one thing to hear about these godly fast technologies like FiOS and Google fiber, it's another to actually have them available in your area, the harsh reality is that Internet providers are unwilling to commit to offering such services in areas that they don't believe to be profitable. Hell, the fastest I can get in my area is Verizon DSL at 3 Mb/s, you have to travel to the next town over before Verizon will even offer FiOS as an option. My local politicians will happily spend $5 million on a trio of wind turbines that can be seen for miles, but modernizing basic utilities like the phone lines is apparently too costly.

Man I'd trade my neighbors kid and a handful of 3 musketeers for google fiber.

I'm in downtown Orange County, and due to telco contracts here FIOS and cox fiber stop 2 blocks from me. Stuck with TWC - lots of throughput, but lots of latency due to lack of infrastructure. I'd gladly take less bandwidth for less latency.

Edited by Fierostetz, 20 November 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Taemien]

Fierostetz, on 20 November 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I used to get tk'd for "being a waste of a team slot". Not sure when it changed, but spiders used to be hated for being an absolute waste of tonnage. That's when I started running them. Apparently, somewhere along the line someone got killed by one, posted on the forums, and others noticed that they were getting killed by "a waste of tonnage", and suddenly it was OP and "borked" and "easymode". If you do some forum searching you can find threads.

You know, I'm kinda curious what changed with spiders to cause that. I do remember when no one wanted to touch the damn things and even I wouldn't go near them. But then one day the forum exploded with hate threads. Its kinda like with ravens when ECM got its implementation. I almost think a good amount of players think 20<25<30<....90<95<100 period. As in nothing smaller than their mech should be a match for them. They won't admit to it. But you can see it in their arguments when they say "Oh my big highlander should not be laid low that easily by a spider!" When it probably took the poor dude in the light mech like 3-5 minutes to kill the bigger mech.

Now I do know there was an issue with the spider'***** box where a shot to the CT in a certain spot would do no damage. Someone actually posted a video. Does anyone know if that's been fixed? If that's been fixed, then I'd say the spider is now fine. HSR is an issue that affects all mechs, and should not be used to 'fix' lights further or see them nerfed in any way. Fix HSR and you fix everything else.

[St4LkeRxF]

Taemien, on 20 November 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

You know, I'm kinda curious what changed with spiders to cause that. I do remember when no one wanted to touch the damn things and even I wouldn't go near them. But then one day the forum exploded with hate threads. Its kinda like with ravens when ECM got its implementation. I almost think a good amount of players think 20<25<30<....90<95<100 period. As in nothing smaller than their mech should be a match for them. They won't admit to it. But you can see it in their arguments when they say "Oh my big highlander should not be laid low that easily by a spider!" When it probably took the poor dude in the light mech like 3-5 minutes to kill the bigger mech.

Now I do know there was an issue with the spider'***** box where a shot to the CT in a certain spot would do no damage. Someone actually posted a video. Does anyone know if that's been fixed? If that's been fixed, then I'd say the spider is now fine. HSR is an issue that affects all mechs, and should not be used to 'fix' lights further or see them nerfed in any way. Fix HSR and you fix everything else.

You can kill them now if you aim at CT but try to aim closer to head, because if you hit right in center it will transfer damage to legs or it wont register at all.

[Clit Beastwood]

Taemien, on 20 November 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

You know, I'm kinda curious what changed with spiders to cause that. I do remember when no one wanted to touch the damn things and even I wouldn't go near them. But then one day the forum exploded with hate threads. Its kinda like with ravens when ECM got its implementation. I almost think a good amount of players think 20<25<30<....90<95<100 period. As in nothing smaller than their mech should be a match for them. They won't admit to it. But you can see it in their arguments when they say "Oh my big highlander should not be laid low that easily by a spider!" When it probably took the poor dude in the light mech like 3-5 minutes to kill the bigger mech.

Now I do know there was an issue with the spider'***** box where a shot to the CT in a certain spot would do no damage. Someone actually posted a video. Does anyone know if that's been fixed? If that's been fixed, then I'd say the spider is now fine. HSR is an issue that affects all mechs, and should not be used to 'fix' lights further or see them nerfed in any way. Fix HSR and you fix everything else.

If you're talking about the bellybutton "hole", yes it's been fixed for a bit now. To be honest, I really doubt that bellybutton hole was the invisible armor everyone insists that it was. I repeat again and again, if you're running a spider, you shouldn't be getting shot at because nobody should ever know where you are. The spider chassis almost has it's own built-in training wheels. Learn the 5k, elite it. Learn the 5d, elite it. Spend a month eliting the 5v... then go run one of the other spiders and it seems way easier - I regularly practice evasion techniques by dropping in a 5d with just a tag, no weapons. Do I have to? no - I'm dropping under-tonnage when I do it, but I'm forcing myself to learn to dodge fire. As my sig states - beware the fury of a patient man. A patient spider pilot is a very dangerous spider pilot.

Edited by Fierostetz, 20 November 2013 - 03:07 PM.

[Sable Dove]

Taemien, on 20 November 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

You know, I'm kinda curious what changed with spiders to cause that. I do remember when no one wanted to touch the damn things and even I wouldn't go near them. But then one day the forum exploded with hate threads. Its kinda like with ravens when ECM got its implementation. I almost think a good amount of players think 20<25<30<....90<95<100 period. As in nothing smaller than their mech should be a match for them. They won't admit to it. But you can see it in their arguments when they say "Oh my big highlander should not be laid low that easily by a spider!" When it probably took the poor dude in the light mech like 3-5 minutes to kill the bigger mech.

HSR happened. Before HSR, all lights were nigh-unhittable to the same degree, and the Spider, not having streaks, with only 3 E hardpoints, was simply the worst light available. Basically, if you weren't a Raven-3L, Commando-2D, or a Jenner-F, your team hated you.

This was also back when class-matching was in effect, meaning a light on one team meant a light on the other. Thus, taking a Spider not only meant you had one of the worst lights; it also meant that the other team was guaranteed to have a light of their own. Most likely a Raven-3L, which at the time, was the best mech in the entire game due to lag shield, ECM, and streaks.

Taemien, on 20 November 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Now I do know there was an issue with the spider'***** box where a shot to the CT in a certain spot would do no damage. Someone actually posted a video. Does anyone know if that's been fixed? If that's been fixed, then I'd say the spider is now fine. HSR is an issue that affects all mechs, and should not be used to 'fix' lights further or see them nerfed in any way. Fix HSR and you fix everything else.

Actually, most of those videos didn't show any significant problem with the Spider. One showed that SRMs had problems (problems that SRMs have with virtually every mech in the game); one showed that the paper doll and reticule didn't update properly (but the correct damage was inflicted); and one showed that there's some weird convergence issue that wasn't conclusive, but should have been investigated. However, even if it was consistent, it was not a significant problem due to how tiny the supposed problem area was.

There is one video that showed an actual issue, however minor, but it isn't clear that it's a problem with the Spider (I've seen the same sort of issue on the Centurion, for instance), or if it is an issue with the convergence system. It should have been investigated further.

Otherwise, videos have all been live games where people either severely over-estimate how much they hit the Spider, or don't understand that the game is server-authoritative.