440 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

After further testing, it is much larger in the back than the front, but even the front has invisibly larger torso sections.

Once more, look in spoiler for pictures (I went lighter on them this time).

Spoiler

Did in a Battlemaster this time. Is anyone else able to reproduce this? Cause this is two out of two times I've been able to see this. (I shall admit I have not ran around testing other mechs yet like I should have... I'll get on that too now.) I find this "invisible hit box bubble" to be more pronounced in the shoulder "jump" area, but it is still noticeable around the lower sections of the torso as well. Hard to see the lower section in the taller Battlemaster...

[Tesunie]

More testing, on other mechs this time. My results is that some other mechs have a simplified hit box causing very small areas to be "invisibly larger". Typically around leg/hips that angle out. They tend to angle out visually, but remain squared hit box.

My finds:

Spoiler

Looks like the Spider also seems to have new fat legs too...














Yet the centurion can have hit boxes that have angles such as these:
(This picture just barely touches a hit box.)

(This one shows the other side, without hitting a hit box. Hugs nice and close to the visuals of the mech, including that sharp angle.)


And this Victor, this was the only spot I could (quickly) see that didn't seem right. Looked like the hit box was just overly simplified, but this small spot and it's small location is a minor piece of the mech. (It is mirrored on the other leg as well.)
Red line is where I see the hit box to roughly be (not exact), blue line is where the graphics ends on the mech itself (where the hit box really should be).

My finds on where hit boxes actually are (on some mechs): (Red line is where there is roughly a hit box line, blue line is where the hit box should be by visual graphics.)


And then the Spider



So, from what I can discover (I did not see a Raven to test the hit box location on in the testing grounds, but out of the mechs on Crimson Straight) these were the only ones I could really see much of a problem with. The Spider now has a halo of invisible hit box around the top of the mech, it's hunches, it's waist and most of it's legs. The arms are correct and have hit boxes that hug next to the graphics of them.

The Victor I think was a victim of over simplified hit boxes on that one piece of hip/leg. The hit box doesn't cut in like it should, and instead just forms a simple box. The extra space gained by this hit box seems minor, but probably should be looked into.

I also saw what might have been a hit box simplification with the elbow joint of the weapon arm of the Centurion, and the Jagermech seemed to have one bump in it's CT that bumped out more than visually indicated when viewed from the side... and from a very short mech (Locust).

I still have not done live action testing on the Spider, so these hit box changes may not even make any effect on how it plays (for me at least), but I am still not overly impressed with the halo of free hit box placed on the mech. When HSR and HR are fixed, I suspect that the Spider will become worse than a Locust for survivability, which doesn't seem right. However, we can not tell till those larger issues are fixed as to if it really will be a problem or not.

(Can anyone else replicate these issues, or is it just happening to me? This is 3 out of 3 times I have tested it and came to the same problems.)

[Tesunie]

PS: When three out of five light mechs have invisible hit box halos on large parts of them... it could be a problem.

Raven: Larger invisible legs.

Spider: Larger invisible chest and legs.

Locust (Unconfirmed): Larger invisible legs.

Commando: (Not tested) Seemed okay?

Jenner: Seemed to have alright hit boxes. (And a very larger side profile, and a wide front profile.)


Why are the lights being made invisibly larger than they are?

[anonymous161]

Yeah this just makes the game even less enjoyable for me when they continue to break things that were not even broken.

[Tesunie]

After live fire testing, with me piloting it, it feels the same to me as it always has. I do find that more damage is actually shifted between torsos taking more advantage of my armor values there. When running away, I tend to take more damage to my rear side torsos. Legs seem to take more damage than they once did, but has not hindered my normal survival in the mech. I still do an average of 150 damage a match (played two matches and got 150 as my damage, and my average match to damage score was 150 anyway...).

Basically, they did hinder it a bit, but not really enough to effect it's performance. For me it runs the same way. Maybe it's because of my low and stable ping levels... (Like how I also never gained any lag shield. I was the fastest dieing fast mech in those days (I was a Cicada Pilot. Still am, just haven't been in them as they are mastered).

[Clit Beastwood]

Tesunie, on 22 November 2013 - 01:40 PM, said:

After live fire testing, with me piloting it, it feels the same to me as it always has. I do find that more damage is actually shifted between torsos taking more advantage of my armor values there. When running away, I tend to take more damage to my rear side torsos. Legs seem to take more damage than they once did, but has not hindered my normal survival in the mech. I still do an average of 150 damage a match (played two matches and got 150 as my damage, and my average match to damage score was 150 anyway...).

Basically, they did hinder it a bit, but not really enough to effect it's performance. For me it runs the same way. Maybe it's because of my low and stable ping levels... (Like how I also never gained any lag shield. I was the fastest dieing fast mech in those days (I was a Cicada Pilot. Still am, just haven't been in them as they are mastered).

I noticed I have to tuck a teensy bit deeper into cover.

[Mehlan]

3 matches, avg 400 damage... Spr only got trashed once, by a teammate in an assualt with bad aim... and since it's been almost 2 weeks since I'd piloted anything... :-)

Edited by Mehlan, 22 November 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Maybe im used to my raven but I played 15 or so games im getting cored a lot more than I used to.Old spidy sides side would blow out but now its the center.My raven still last long and has a higher kill ratio.Im guessing they will increase the hitboxs size on it soon.

[Khobai]

I suspect a lot of the complaints about spiders are because of water too. Missiles explode on the surface of water and ballistics stop when they hit water. So spiders running through water are VERY difficult to kill. And I think this is causing a lot of the grief players are experiencing. The fact that certain weapons dont do damage to submerged mechs is a MAJOR balance issue and one that shouldve been fixed months ago.

Edited by Khobai, 22 November 2013 - 08:43 PM.

[Tesunie]

Khobai, on 22 November 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

I suspect a lot of the complaints about spiders are because of water too. Missiles explode on the surface of water and ballistics stop when they hit water. So spiders running through water are VERY difficult to kill. And I think this is causing a lot of the grief players are experiencing. The fact that certain weapons dont do damage to submerged mechs is a MAJOR balance issue and one that shouldve been fixed months ago.

I don't think that is the problem most people have...

As for missiles and Ballistics not penetrating water, it's logical, tactical, is steeped in lore, and is also in line with the laws of real life physics. The impact of hitting the water at the speeds they are traveling at is like hitting cement (or harder). Lasers would probably lose some intensity from the water (and heat (melting damage)). Missiles would probably have their warheads hit hard enough to detonate. Ballistics would either bounce, or come to an almost complete stop (loose speed quickly).

Of course, the exception would be if the ballistic weapon is shot while under water, but the more dense water would slow down bullets sooner, making them have reduced ranges at least...

[Tahribator]

Darth Bane001, on 22 November 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

Yeah this just makes the game even less enjoyable for me when they continue to break things that were not even broken.

They compensate their bad netcode by screwing up hitboxes. Does the forum complain about it? Just oversize the leg hitboxes, problem solved!

It's immediately noticable that Spider legs take more damage compared to before, the torso is roughly the same and it's where the complaints came from. "My AC-X hit him and didn't do anything!" "Unloaded 4 SRM6'es to his face and nothing!", these issues remain all the same. Just remember the poor Raven that got its hitboxes "reduced in complexity" for being "hard to hit". What they did was just oversize the legs and be done with it.

They're just duct taping things without fixing the underlying issue. If and when they get their netcode/balance right, will they ever go back and give these mechs proper hitboxes? I don't think so and it's just unfair leaving them in thes gimped position.

[Dimento Graven]

Tahribator, on 26 November 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

They compensate their bad netcode by screwing up hitboxes. Does the forum complain about it? Just oversize the leg hitboxes, problem solved!

It's immediately noticable that Spider legs take more damage compared to before, the torso is roughly the same and it's where the complaints came from. "My AC-X hit him and didn't do anything!" "Unloaded 4 SRM6'es to his face and nothing!", these issues remain all the same. Just remember the poor Raven that got its hitboxes "reduced in complexity" for being "hard to hit". What they did was just oversize the legs and be done with it.

They're just duct taping things without fixing the underlying issue. If and when they get their netcode/balance right, will they ever go back and give these mechs proper hitboxes? I don't think so and it's just unfair leaving them in thes gimped position.

All I know is that NOW I see less Spiders, and the Spiders I do see, are MUCH harder to hit.

In my opinion we got rid of most of the lesser skilled "hangers on", pilots who were taking advantage of a broken 'mech, and now we're left with the remaining pilots of actual skill.

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 26 November 2013 - 07:36 AM, said:

All I know is that NOW I see less Spiders, and the Spiders I do see, are MUCH harder to hit.

Your endless whining and QQ brought us almost to the point of extinction. But now I and the last surviving members of my kind are out for blood, YOUR BLOOD!


< >

Edited by Mystere, 26 November 2013 - 08:19 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

Mystere, on 26 November 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Your endless whining and QQ brought us almost to the point of extinction. But now I and the last surviving members of my kind are out for blood, YOUR BLOOD!


< >

All I have to say is, "Bring it, bug boy!" If you're one of the harder to hit ones, oh well, the nicety of it is, even though you're harder to hit, when I DO hit you, you now WILL fall down...

[Mystere]

Dimento Graven, on 26 November 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

All I have to say is, "Bring it, bug boy!" If you're one of the harder to hit ones, oh well, the nicety of it is, even though you're harder to hit, when I DO hit you, you now WILL fall down...

Unfortunately for you, you can only hit what you can see.

[Raztan]

There are only two types of spider pilot's. Noob's that don't know the spider's is broken and a blight on the game, and Troll's that do know and enjoy the misery they cause.

[Clit Beastwood]

It's back! Wooooooo!

[Latorque]

There needs to be proof that spiders are completely broken? Oh.

[Tesunie]

Raztan, on 19 January 2014 - 04:15 AM, said:

There are only two types of spider pilot's. Noob's that don't know the spider's is broken and a blight on the game, and Troll's that do know and enjoy the misery they cause.

Latorque, on 19 January 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

There needs to be proof that spiders are completely broken? Oh.

Funny, as of late, my Jenner massively out lives my Spider, and does massively more damage. I'm not joking, and I don't really pilot them any different from one or the other...

[Latorque]

A well-piloted Jenner is extremely dangerous; but in the most cases an AC-20 shot in the rear armor does what it is supposed to do. I certainly won't claim to pull this off on a regular basis; within 270 meters i'll miss 8 times out of 10, or maybe rip an arm off. But; there is a fighting chance when i'm mounting my LB-10-X or the aforementioned AC-20 combined with some MLas. The spider... no. Just no. If you encounter two of them; you can just overheat - suicide or quit the match; and i've played long enough to notice a massive difference from any other light mech (mastered Jenner and Raven myself) in survivability. Unless it stands absolutely still; a team of 5 heavier mechs can turn its center torso's armor in a warm orange colour before it speeds off. My Atlas couldn't take this much fire.

As much as i enjoy this game; the abundance of LRM-boating and the constant availability of trial spiders is starting to drain the fun.

This is no matter of a well-made design; the spider is broken.