I think most of us aren't saying if it is, or isn't. I think we can't properly tell unless all of the hit reg problems are fixed first. Also, not all of us are "exploiting" the "problem". Some of us just like the mech, or play it only on occasion. (Personally, I only own one Spider, and I don't play it all that often.)
Spider is not the only thing broken, and many of the problems seen with the spider are seen with other mechs as well, just it seems more noticeable with them. Also, has anything been tested since the last patch? Most evidence I see against the spider are several patches old...
most of the people who play the spider know about its problem , its why they use it ................... just no talent losers really.
Always enjoy the spider apologists and their explanation that it is all in a player's mind that something is not working correctly. Then I see them in game and note the mech they tend to run. After 7k in drops, It's neither my aim nor perception that's at fault.
most of the people who play the spider know about its problem , its why they use it ................... just no talent losers really.
I wouldn't exactly say that. I've used a large selection of mechs, including the spider. I used the Spider when it first came out for a while, but dropped it for a different idea at the moment. Went back after the "bug" was there, but wasn't my intention. I actually went back to the Spider to try and become a dedicated LRM spotter. Jump. ECM. TAG. Just don't shot at anyone when you are behind them, and they will never (rarely) figure out why LRMs are dropping on their heads... Since LRMs are not always on the team, I have since changed it to a "Half and Quickdraw" with a Large and 2 med lasers.
My problem is not with your issues with the Spider, my problem with your statement is the lumping of "all spider pilots" into the same "they are exploiters", or as "no talent losers". It's not right to make such generalized statements. I've heard other such generalized statements about everything in the game, and they are all wrong. Some people, maybe. All of them? No.
I can honestly say that I've seen both sides of this issue, having one match where I could not damage a spider followed by a later match where I killed one easily. In the former, I had a Spider on Canyon Network up high when I was in a ravine keep rushing forward to fire and falling back. I lined up the spot he kept appearing from (wasn't even changing location after attacking) and for several minutes kept dumping large laser and LBX fire into him when he appeared, crosshairs turning red and his paper doll flashing, but he would not die. Later, on Terra Therma, fired at a Spider with an AC20 and boom, shot of his leg with one round, followed by one to the chest once the gun recycled (and he was a sitting duck). Usually my ping is fairly consistent, hanging around 70 or so, and I have never noticed a similar issue with any other mech type, so it is quite frustrating.
I think that all Mechs should be as tough as the Spider. Mechs like the Centurion and the Spider, I think, do a good job at representing what hitboxes should be. That is, really hard to hit.
It's certainly easier to nerf a couple Mechs, but again, I think that all mechs should take as long to down as the Spider and Centurion.
Tincan Nightmare, on 22 October 2013 - 07:25 PM, said:
I can honestly say that I've seen both sides of this issue, having one match where I could not damage a spider followed by a later match where I killed one easily. In the former, I had a Spider on Canyon Network up high when I was in a ravine keep rushing forward to fire and falling back. I lined up the spot he kept appearing from (wasn't even changing location after attacking) and for several minutes kept dumping large laser and LBX fire into him when he appeared, crosshairs turning red and his paper doll flashing, but he would not die. Later, on Terra Therma, fired at a Spider with an AC20 and boom, shot of his leg with one round, followed by one to the chest once the gun recycled (and he was a sitting duck). Usually my ping is fairly consistent, hanging around 70 or so, and I have never noticed a similar issue with any other mech type, so it is quite frustrating.
THIS ^
Like I said there is no consistency....
You don't know how many times I have heard similar things from so many different people.
I don't know what you saw, but I saw 20 seconds of a single mech being shot at with ACs, Missiles (SRMs), PPCs and lasers, and not taking any damage from any of it. I think that proved the point very well personally.
There are more than just "target not registering damage" to this problem. Random instance of damage not registering happens on all mechs, as we saw in the video. Lasers deal damage over 1 sec duration, so chances are even if there are bugged damage not registering, some damage will still register on the target during the whole second.
Then there's another problem where hitbox is not where you see on your screen due to latency or target running at extreme speed. Sometimes if you wanna hit a 150kph+ spider, you have to lead and shoot in front of him, sometimes you have to shoot behind him in order to actually register a hit. You won't notice this type of issue on slower mechs, ie heavy and assault class. Light mechs, and the most notorious spider, exploit this issue the most. That's why i mention medium lasers because if a full duration of lasers deal no damage on the spider, chances are its hitbox is shifted.
Spider is not the only thing broken, and many of the problems seen with the spider are seen with other mechs as well, just it seems more noticeable with them. Also, has anything been tested since the last patch? Most evidence I see against the spider are several patches old...
Nope, and most the ones whning....won't/don't ever try to test and confirm either...which is why you keep seeing the old couple vids keep popping up.
I hate to burst your bubble OP, but your whole premise starts out that the spider hitbox bug is no longer reproducible. This is not true; here, this video is from just a couple days ago.
Contrary to what the post above me states (and I have told the poster this several times) you can see that this video is from Oct 17, after the most recent patch; hardly one of the "old couple [of] vids." Even though I've showed it to him at least twice, he has been having a hard time believing it.
I hate to burst your bubble OP, but your whole premise starts out that the spider hitbox bug is no longer reproducible. This is not true; here, this video is from just a couple days ago.
Contrary to what the post above me states (and I have told the poster this several times) you can see that this video is from Oct 17, after the most recent patch; hardly one of the "old couple [of] vids." Even though I've showed it to him at least twice, he has been having a hard time believing it.
Yea and I ran my testing ground vids after that....
Hit registration isn't the problem. Sorry, gentlemen you're all looking in the wrong place.
What you're experiencing here is the age old Server-Client synchronisation "issue".
In a nutshell: What you're seeing on your screen isn't necessarily what's happening in reality. Especially with the very high ping the MWO server location forces onto most players.
Talking about hit registration in this context is just completely misleading and simply wrong
Edited by The Wee Baby Seamus, 23 October 2013 - 02:02 AM.
The Wee Baby Seamus, on 23 October 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:
Hit registration isn't the problem. Sorry, gentlemen you're all looking in the wrong place.
What you're experiencing here is the age old Server-Client synchronisation "issue".
In a nutshell: What you're seeing on your screen isn't necessarily what's happening in reality. Especially with the very high ping the MWO server location forces onto most players.
Talking about hit registration in this context is just completely misleading and simply wrong
I'm not going to get sick of posting this video any time soon:
I'm not going to get sick of posting this video any time soon:
and continue to ignore anything that you don't like.... why didn't you use your lasers in your vid while you were at it, is that perhaps where the torso damage on the doll came from? Of course that wouldn't quite jive with your broken spiders claim now would it? Lets see, lasers work, ac20 works, mgs work, heck streaks seem to work on occasion. That kinda kills the whole 'spider/hitbox' theory and points at something else...
anything 'tested' in the locally hosted training ground is pretty irrelevant to this discussion, unfortunately. The problem with spiders is entirely the result of their size + server side hit detection
anything 'tested' in the locally hosted training ground is pretty irrelevant to this discussion, unfortunately. The problem with spiders is entirely the result of their size + server side hit detection
Hardly so... can you demonstrate the ability to edit the mech or weapon data and then use those modified weapons/mech on the testing grounds?
The Spider's "hidden" flaw is its hardpoints: the ECM variant only gets 3 lasers and the MG variant...uses MGs. Jenners pack a lot more of a whallup than the Spidey does.
The Jenner will go down what feels like 3 times as fast, while not doing the triple amount of damage, especially when considering damage over time.
and continue to ignore anything that you don't like.... why didn't you use your lasers in your vid while you were at it, is that perhaps where the torso damage on the doll came from? Of course that wouldn't quite jive with your broken spiders claim now would it? Lets see, lasers work, ac20 works, mgs work, heck streaks seem to work on occasion. That kinda kills the whole 'spider/hitbox' theory and points at something else...
I used SRM2 exclusively because it's the easiest to show it with; all the other damage on the mech was from the SRM2 impacting as I looked for other holes. You will note I am down a number of shots when the video starts. But just because I love making you happy, I went back to the testing grounds to record more. Attached is a video of about half my shots with an AC2 finding the hole in the spider's hitbox. Like I've explained to you before, I tend to use SRM2 as the hits seem to be more precise, and can more reliably be landed in the deadzone. As of this time, I was unable to replicate any 0 damage hits with a medium laser.
AssaultPig, on 23 October 2013 - 03:41 AM, said:
anything 'tested' in the locally hosted training ground is pretty irrelevant to this discussion, unfortunately. The problem with spiders is entirely the result of their size + server side hit detection
Steel Will found the same problem as me on a live server, the hole is in exactly the same spot as the one I found on the testing grounds, using medium lasers. It's worth having a look at his post, and the video. I'd be more than happy to try and replicate this bug in a live environment if anyone is willing to come get teamkilled by me a bunch; I can't do it alone, and all the friends I have who played have quit.
anything 'tested' in the locally hosted training ground is pretty irrelevant to this discussion, unfortunately. The problem with spiders is entirely the result of their size + server side hit detection
Yeah, that is exactly, what is happening with me: spider is just felt like a running stick.
Yep, totally a well designed mech with no glaring flaws at all.
This kind of think is reproducible with any mech at certain points of the CT. A work around would be to give the spider the same treatment the Raven recieved back in the day and to make the legs a bit easier to hit.
This is some really nice theory crafting, but it does not explain why the Raven was impossible to hit before the pre-HSR hit box adjustment, or why the commando is so easy to hit.
Edited by Vodrin Thales, 23 October 2013 - 10:42 AM.
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Tesunie, on 22 October 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:
