25 replies to this topic

[Kanatta Jing]

So my Thunderbolt doesn't start loosing weapon systems until 40% health.

Once after reaching 25% health my T-bolt retreated from the brawl to focus on offering LRM support.

The power of the T-bolt to reject death is remarkable. It doesn't loose torso's like the Cataphract and it isn't cored easily like the Catapult.

[Escef]

Like any mech, it depends on the load out and pilot. I know I don't roll torsos often enough, I'm too focused on the target. I should be rolling to cover my damaged/vital parts while my weapons are cycling, but in the heat of the moment... Well, there's a difference between knowing better and actually doing it.

[Truesight]

I usally torso twist and in the process get peeled off like an onion.

First the arm, then the side torsos and the center when there is nothing left.

[JKohn]

I dont think it's a good brawler at all, gets destroyed way too easily compared to other choises for a brawler, at around the same tonnage range. Even if you can distribute the damage around, anyone can hit this blob at any range. If I'm in my SHD and see a lone Thunderbolt, I'll charge at him like a rabid dog because the pilot and loadout must be great for him to come out on top.

[Bishop Steiner]

it's decent, but the mech just can't lay down a face melting alpha like a Jagerbomb or SplatCat, and so with so much firepower stuck in lasers (er ppcs are too hot overall, and ppc minimum range is bad for brawling) it has to spend too much "time on target", imo. This gives it the feel of a less durable mech than the Cat or Jag to me because on those I can shoot and scoot, torso twisting all the way. Give it the borked damage transfer like the Centy has, and I think it would be an improvement. Not, overall as much usable firepower and dps as the other mechs, but tougher, is how it should be. It, like the HBK is supposed to be in the "Juggernaut" role, yet cannot do this terribly well.

Mechs need deeper and more role correct quirks, and toughness is supposed to be the hallmark of the Tbolt. It's almost there, but something is still missing.

[Unnatural Growth]

I agree with Bishop. It's not nearly as tough as it should be. It can't take near the pounding that my 'phracts can take. Hell, the Shadow Hawk can take and dish out more than the Thud. As I said in the other thread, I think they're nicknamed "Thud's" because that's the sound they make when they hit the ground.

Still playing with loadouts on the Thud. But so far I'm forced to play this one much more conservatively than I wanted. Kind of playing it like a Hunchie for now, which is a shame really.

I didn't vote in your poll OP, as I don't see what women's braziers have to do with mechs?

[Shadey99]

Maybe it's just me, but I do well in the TDR-5SS... really really good... It takes alot to take me down and even if I have to take a second to lay down laser damage a pair of large lasers (or PPCs) in those high right torso slots and medium lasers in the rest with tons of heat sinks and a standard engine. The only downside is the lack of weapons in the head or CT which means if I'm down to just my center torso (very common if I'm brawling) I'm now out of the fight.

The TDR-5SE is more hit or miss for me and the TDR-5S has interesting hardpoints but doesn't fare that much better though I do like the ballistic options. Any way I go though, the first thing I do is drop the missiles. That huge box launcher must go (or as much of it as I can get).

I also find even with smaller (275-280 engines) I'm faster to accelerate and turn than I am in a Shadowhawk (at equally large engines).

[McBond]

I've found the TDR-5S(P), 4x medium lasers and 2x ac5's, with remaining tonnage to double heat sinks, to be extremely powerful. It deals a lot of damage and doesn't overheat easily even on the magma map.

[Silentium]

Mostly no, It is the jerk of all trades.

Don't get me wrong, I love it like it was my ugly baby, but you have to be realistic.

[Harmatia]

The only time I die in my Thunderbolts are either when the team behind returns to base and leaves me circled by the enemy, or when I go first down a narrow passage and get lit up like a Xmas tree. For the last 8 months I have only been playing Hunchbacks, so I'm sure as I get used to these new mechs they'll just get better and better.

[Silentium]

They kind of ride like a hunchie in some ways I think.

[HozeMonky]

McBond, on 21 October 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

I've found the TDR-5S(P), 4x medium lasers and 2x ac5's, with remaining tonnage to double heat sinks, to be extremely powerful. It deals a lot of damage and doesn't overheat easily even on the magma map.

But why bother when you can get a much better high mounted ballistics firing angle and a higher (although certainly high heat generating) 6x ML alpha out of a Firebrand? Granted the convergence on the AC/5's is going to be better on the 5S(P) but still!

Maybe I just need to play this chassis more but my 'Phracts and one Jaeger (with only basics unlocked) are much more effective. I regularly take down much bigger 'mechs up close and personal with the heavy ballistics builds like the 4x AC/5 build or the 3x AC/5 Ilya build.

I guess maybe I'm just a little frustrated that it seems like the only effective builds with current meta are a combo of heat efficient energy weapons (LL, ML) and low heat generating ballistics (AC/5, UAC/5 etc...) So any energy and or missile based (AKA the other two thunderbolt chassis') are significantly less effective. Buuut maybe that's just my play style.


I do think that the 5S(P) can be a decent brawler (thought not as effective as other heavies) but I think the other two variants are hamstrung by the limitations and heat problems associated with energy and missile chassis under current meta. That said I think that the JJ's of the 9SE are underrated but are also more suitable for a hit-and-run skirmisher with ML and SRMs (which also allows for cool down) and not a brawler. The 5S has the heat problem and is more suited to PPC sniping and LL/ML "boating" and therefore not really the best for brawling.

Edited by HozeMonky, 22 October 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Kutfroat]

hi!

yesterday i found a build for the 5s(p) that works really well for me.
till yesterday i ran 1xac5, 4x ml and 2x 6asrm...didn't really work out well.
so i switched to 1x ac10, 1x lpl and 1x 6asrm with 3 tons ac10 + 1 ton asrm
ammo in the legs, and 1 ton asrm in the head. ams + 1 ton ams ammo in torso, no case.
standard 260 engine...it really shines now! heatefficiency of 1.44. can only recommand it!

thinking about dropping the ams/ammo for 3 sl, but not sure about it. would make it 4 weapon
groups and decrease the nice heat efficiency.

Edited by Kutfroat, 22 October 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[IllCaesar]

I think so. I've only really played the 5S and 5SS, but both have managed me pretty well.

My 5S, UAC5, 2xSRM6, 4xML has done pretty well for me. I've brawled against Centurions, Cataphracts, other Thunderbolts, Victors, Awesomes, and even Atlas', and came out on top while still having pretty manageable heat.

My 5SS, which I'm still tinkering with, has netted me over 500 damage in the past two of three matches running 5 MPLs and an LL (used to be two LLs, dropped one for an extra heatsink and upgraded the engine from 275 to 300). About to test out a 7 MPL on it. The fact that most of the firepower is in the side torsos is pretty important, I think. It allows you to keep up the damage for longer periods, as the way I'm taken down in the Thunderbolt is usually one arm then the side torso of that arm, then the other arm and the other side torso. Wish that I could fit one in my head, could zombie like crazy.

[Carrioncrows]

The only Variant that I run like a brawler right now is the 9SE

It has a 275 STD
Large pulse + medium laser bound in the arm to the same firing group - (15 dmg shot)
3 meds in the torso bound to a group 2.
And twin SRM6's bound to the group 3.
17 DHS
Lots of jumpers.

And it can take some serious punishment.

It deals out quite a bit of damage. Is it as good as twin 20 jagers? no, but it's also not as fragile.

However just because you are tough as nails doesn't mean that you can survive running headfirst into the enemy. I think the Tbolt makes an excellent brawler but it's also a Energy / missile platform which means though you have good or even decent damage you also have the worst endurance in a fight.

When pressed you simply can't bring all guns to bear without hitting that heat cap. Now my trick is once I bounce on that heat cap I simply use SRM6's to still throw damage while i cool down enough to use the mediums or the Large pulse + mediums depending on the situation. It also occasionally means you have to take a break for a few seconds behind some cover to cooldown some more.

Where the Tbolts do fall down a bit is when people get into a furball and press them passed their heat cap and shutdown or lack sufficient secondary weapons to fight with while they cool down which means they get taken out early doing the lowest amount of damage possible.

So if you are going to make yourself a Tbolt brawler you are going to have to have several things, lots of DHS, secondary weapons you can utilize to still throw damage while you cooldown and the ability to use fire control to ensure you don't bounce off that heat cap. If you do all 3 of those things the Tbolt brawlers can be amazing. I've taken down many 20 jagers simply by being able to use the sheer toughness of the Tbolt, the agility of the jumpjets and the power of the weapons and lay jagers low while taking a minimum amount of return fire.

I am not a huge fan of the Large pulse laser but the combination large pulse and medium laser works exceptionally well when paired and deals a nice solid 15 dmg to any location you want.

[Mavek]

Look at the placement of the two energy hardpoints on the right shoulder of the 5SS...PPC sniper anyone?

That said, I am certainly having a difficult time making the THUD work for me. The shadow hawk is a beast.

[Bobdolemite]

Been running a TDR-9SE with 2 x PPC 3 x ML (std 275) - Very solid as a PPC sniper, had several 800+ damage rounds with 4+ kills. It could be my imagination but so far this mech seems to deal with the heat better than most of my other sniper chassis. There is quite a lot to do with the TDR though IMO this mech is not a good brawler.

In a frontal fight it seems to lose its components very quickly especially to AC mechs. That being said I love my TDR, one of the few heavies that "acts" like a heavy.

[Ser Barristan]

I've had a lot of fun with the TDRs I've used so far. For the most part I've been running them with basically stock weaponry but with upgraded heat dissipation. Its not punchy like kinetics but three mediums and a large laser that are nearly heat neutral can deal a lot of damage over the course of a match. In addition I found the chassis has been very durable. That said I've had the most success as a "support brawler" almost piloting the thud like a hefty HBK. It brawls well when you have some battle buddies (especially an assault) to share the fur ball. That way you have the time to work people over with the lasers and not get singled out.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

HozeMonky, on 22 October 2013 - 05:27 AM, said:

I guess maybe I'm just a little frustrated that it seems like the only effective builds with current meta are a combo of heat efficient energy weapons (LL, ML) and low heat generating ballistics (AC/5, UAC/5 etc...) So any energy and or missile based (AKA the other two thunderbolt chassis') are significantly less effective. Buuut maybe that's just my play style.

This is my feeling as well. I've Mastered out all three Thuds, but the 5S(P) with 2 AC5, some ML and a couple of streaks is just soooo much easier to use than the other two. With either of the energy/missile only variants, as soon as you get involved in a close-up fight the risk of overheating is very real.

Last time I looked through my mechlab, I had far too many builds with 2AC5, a couple of lasers and some streaks...

[C E Dwyer]

RocketDog, on 23 October 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

This is my feeling as well. I've Mastered out all three Thuds, but the 5S(P) with 2 AC5, some ML and a couple of streaks is just soooo much easier to use than the other two. With either of the energy/missile only variants, as soon as you get involved in a close-up fight the risk of overheating is very real.

Last time I looked through my mechlab, I had far too many builds with 2AC5, a couple of lasers and some streaks...

I tend to agree, while the current meta is better than the last year, getting rid of ppc boating and jump sniping, the ac5 ac2 domination is alittle tiresome when it comes to making different builds work