25 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

FinsT, on 22 October 2013 - 05:53 AM, said:

But it's still funny to me. Even if it's, say, a Raven orsomething "light". 35 tons is a weight equivalent of ~30 typical cars piled together. To imagine this sort of mass hopping around - makes me smiling, and i can't help it. %)

Oh i don't think that you think it is funny when we got meele and some body is jump kicking your Mech:
And you must admit wouldn't it be fun?

[Sandpit]

Karl Streiger, on 21 October 2013 - 11:54 PM, said:

Really - I don't care what you think its funny - and you shouldn't care eighter. For example I think its funny that you think a JaegerMech consists of Steel and artillery shells..(its a lot of thins but hardly anything of that is a artillery shell or even Steel)
Yes they do.
Mechs are no tanks - they have full mobility - they can do ballet as long as the pilot is good enough.

we are talking about BattleMechs - by God not about Comand n Conquer etc. Walker stuff.

following your example Mechs couldn't be able to club a Purifer with there arms out of the skye,
they shouldn't be able to controll the force they bend on a Purifer when pinning him to the ground.

At least Mechs could be able to do sidestaps, crawling, go prone - press there selfes into cover.
That you see mostly flightsticks and buttons, doesn't meant its a derviate from fighter and tank on two legs.
It is much more.

and a knee tall obstacle isn't the problem:

here a malice stomping at a Tundra Wolf
Or here a Highlander:

that thing is not DFA-ing.

they are even able to behave like humans:


Or they can't do things like that:

dramatic art drawings are just that, dramatic art drawings. The mech you claim is "stomping" is merely stepping over and in the game would have to make a piloting skill roll to do so. You're completely discounting all of that after quoting TT rules for justification. Again, I think there should be some sort of way but in no way are mechs nearly as nimble as you're describing. Feel free to cite any rule that disputes that. Don't forget to add in and show all of the piloting skill modifiers to anything you cite though. You can't pick and choose which rules are ok and which ones aren't. The rule set as a whole needs to be looked at if you're going to use that as your basis.

[Karl Streiger]

Sandpit, on 22 October 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

You can't pick and choose which rules are ok and which ones aren't. The rule set as a whole needs to be looked at if you're going to use that as your basis.

OK it looks like we are talking about the same - a good example is rough terrain...you know - that stuff of terrain where you need 2 BP instead of 1 and you have to make a pilot skill roll not to fall over.

The problem is: there is no pilot skill roll - so you have to add a mechanic to do this...and from all aspects of PGI game design - a simple hop looks like the most simple way to achieve that.

punching, kicking, DFA ing all stuff needs pilot skill rolls - even charging. And you don't need to do a DFA skill roll in MWO - if you can control the JJs long enough to make that thing fly where you want to fly.
But the problem is that JJ control is as well very rudimentary, too.

That you can JUMP and Kick in the same turn in TT could be a good example how mobile Mechs really are.

[Sandpit]

Karl Streiger, on 22 October 2013 - 11:59 AM, said:

OK it looks like we are talking about the same - a good example is rough terrain...you know - that stuff of terrain where you need 2 BP instead of 1 and you have to make a pilot skill roll not to fall over.

The problem is: there is no pilot skill roll - so you have to add a mechanic to do this...and from all aspects of PGI game design - a simple hop looks like the most simple way to achieve that.

punching, kicking, DFA ing all stuff needs pilot skill rolls - even charging. And you don't need to do a DFA skill roll in MWO - if you can control the JJs long enough to make that thing fly where you want to fly.
But the problem is that JJ control is as well very rudimentary, too.

That you can JUMP and Kick in the same turn in TT could be a good example how mobile Mechs really are.

I understand what you're getting at but I don't want to see CoD style bunny hoping and drop shoting. We don't have PSR in MWO but what they CAN do is add movement modifiers. I don't think we need a "hop" mechanic so much as we just need smarter movement coding on how and when a mech is able to traverse certain terrain at a cost of speed or some such. Some of the small boulders and such that are barely ankle high to my Stalker shouldn't stop me from stepping over it. I'm not disputing we need a bit of work in that area I just don't want PGI to get the "bright idea" to add in CoD style movement

[Karl Streiger]

Sandpit, on 22 October 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I'm not disputing we need a bit of work in that area I just don't want PGI to get the "bright idea" to add in CoD style movement

Neigther would I.

You know - I usually love to get killed and play spectator (not really)
But for example crimson citty...what are those pits below the bridge for - i sitting in the cockpit of an locust that was unable to get out of that pit. And the upper edge was near the cockpit. So that little ****** wouldn't be able to climb out - or at least it should need a kind of special step - because its rerward legs could to that to stalk out of that pit
But with enough speed it is able for the Mech to climb the pit.
You may have encountered that your Mech even a bigger one - will get stucked at this position - and you have to rewerse and accelerate to get out. (a kind of pilot skill roll as well - some how)

So yes you are right - a better rework at all maps is necessary to avoid such behaviour. The scaling simple doesn't fit the height of the Mechs - on most maps but Caustic Valley - i think that my Mech is a trooper in a battle suite - and of course a trooper could climp walls and wouldn't get stucked because there is a toy car in his way.

[FinsT]

Karl Streiger, on 22 October 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

Oh i don't think that you think it is funny when we got meele and some body is jump kicking your Mech:
And you must admit wouldn't it be fun?

No, no, jump kick is different. Not fun; not in a way hopping 'mech is fun. Jump jets are, well, jets. Jets are powerful things. Jets lift hundreds-tons airliners into our sky. Jets push rockets into space. Jets are strong! So, when some few dozens tons are thrown into the air by a set of jets, - i don't smile. Usual deal. Like boosters used by myth busters to accelerate a car from zero to a huge speed on a short rail (after which the car was smashed into a concrete wall). There is LOTS of energy in jets, you see (that concrete wall was completely disintegrated, by the way).

But hopping - this is "muscle" power (ok, myomer, whatever). To see dozens-tons mech hopping just outta its legs' power, - is something like to see 300-kg-of-body-weight person competing in high jump in Olympics. The guy can walk, even run somewhat, but high jump? Not his thing. If he'd still try... wouldn't such a sight be funny to ya? =)

Edited by FinsT, 23 October 2013 - 02:43 AM.