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Suggestions For Proper Clan Technology Implementation


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#21 flounder2760

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 11:09 AM

View PostFelix Dante, on 22 October 2013 - 07:02 PM, said:


I've said the same thing many times! A IS Company vs. a Clan Binary (2 Stars worth of Mechs) has always been a easy way to balance a game since tabletop.

If you question this...how often have you moaned over asingle disconnect or two during a match?
Thinking you have "already lost" because of that?

Sure they have superior technology, and if you are stupid enough to challenge a Clanner face to face in a Inner Sphere mech, alone, you are surely toast of some sort.

I would add however, that the Clanners do not tend to be Assault heavy (except clan Ghost Bear I think) and a slightly lower tonnage limit could be placed on any Clan groups playing as well. This can easily represent the Clan bidding system (Smaller/Lighter Forces = Greater Risk and potentially More Prestige basically...although avoiding waste is actually the primary concern for bidding). They could even get a tonnage bonus for being lighter. For every ton their group is lighter than their group limit = Extra C-Bills/XP of some sort per person.

Numbers and overall weight can mean a big difference IF people play as a team. Clanners (and those who prefer to use Clan Tech) think they are the "Baddass of the Battlefield" and tend to fight like that. Which will just get them killed faster every time against those that stick together and work together..

THIS

i have been pushing for this. weapons and clan tech in general can stay superior and it would add to the gameplay if you had to be out massed everytime you fought IS there ebing an incentive for more glory and resources is also a sure way to know that people doing it wont grumble about it. back in beta we had alot more mediums and lower end heavies being fielded the most. today your lucky to see a drop on either team that doesnt have 6 assaults in it and the rest heavies and spiders.

having clanners want to drop light so as to get more cbills/honor just makes sense especially when combined with binary vs company. but nope all the haters of clan superiority want to be able to solo any clanner mech mano e mano every time. ( which simply isnt canon)

having the clans balanced like the OP has stated would cause more tonnage diversity and fresher gameplay .

if you have alot of mechs maxed out and you kick arse with them usually you think about buying another type of chassis and tackling that. why? because playing the same thing over and over again win and lose gets monotonous and boring.

diversity of gameplay is what keeps games alie for years and years. if you make clans an alternate IS with nerfhammer you make the gameplay agaisnt them bland.

and everyone talks about how lower slots and tonnage is way too OP for clans and 7 slot FF and ENDO a clan omni mech cant customize things like engine Jump jets and other such equipment. they only get 9 slots in the side torsos and less slots in general to fit stuff

Customization
Weapons engine equpment
CLans unlimited none limited
IS limited unlimited unlimited

Edited by flounder2760, 24 October 2013 - 11:15 AM.


#22 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 04:41 AM

So I have to ask, how do you balance Omni's when one Dire Wolf is supposedly equal to 2 Victors?
Victor-8B=1165 BV x2 2330

Dire Wolf Prime=2341 BV

And that is basic BV not mods! Imagine the BV of a custom Dire Wolf?

#23 CyclonerM

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 05:53 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

So I have to ask, how do you balance Omni's when one Dire Wolf is supposedly equal to 2 Victors?
Victor-8B=1165 BV x2 2330

Dire Wolf Prime=2341 BV

And that is basic BV not mods! Imagine the BV of a custom Dire Wolf?


Tonnage limits, ghost heat, a bit more balanced Clan weapons, slow speed, high price/honor to buy it.

#24 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 07:41 AM

I know some Clan Mediums that would ruin an Atlas's day... Ghost heat is a joke, Clans are to be feared so I don't want my enemy's weapons tampered with!

#25 Felix Dante

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 08:42 AM

View Postnodebate, on 23 October 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

Get rid of everything "ER" in the Clan arsenal.
No more CERPPCs. Just CPPCs. No more CERMLs. Just CMLs. Tweak heat as necessary.
No swapping out engines on Omnis. No reassigning armor values on Omnis.
Penalties for stacking the same weapon type inside Omni slots more than say... Twice.

Well I don't agree with getting rid off ER weapons, I can heartily agree with NO changes to Engines or armor/structure in Omnis. They have to be balanced by design to compensate for their ease of weapon/equipment choice.

#26 Crusbbcc

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:15 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 25 October 2013 - 04:41 AM, said:

So I have to ask, how do you balance Omni's when one Dire Wolf is supposedly equal to 2 Victors?
Victor-8B=1165 BV x2 2330

Dire Wolf Prime=2341 BV

And that is basic BV not mods! Imagine the BV of a custom Dire Wolf?


Hmm what kind of comparison is this?! Pretty biased in my opinion.

First you compare an 80 ton with a 100 ton Mech. Apples and oranges. Take an Atlas so it's 100(Atlas) vs 100(Dire Wolf) and you get 1557 vs 2341 (BV1). Oh not so hugely different suddenly :blink:?
Then take the Atlas II and oh suddenly 1740 (BV1). All with weapons we have in the game lb10x, lrm20, erll, med pulse and srm6, production year 2765.
Now look at the Atlas III....2564(BV2) vs 2712(BV2) dire wolf...once rotaries are included.
No you want to Nerf them and the IS then to make the clans a bit more powerful?!?
Funny...

#27 dal10

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 07:47 PM

atlas 3 is literally like 70 years away.

#28 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:44 AM

View PostCrusbbcc, on 22 October 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

I understand you point. What I think is that in the BT universe of course clan tech ich unbalanced, stronger weapons, better Xl engines,....
So what, make everything identical? I don't think that's the way to go, we need diversity :)!

This right here. I came to the monitor to play against the Clans, The Clans have better tech, and they have it for a long time. I for one do not want my boogieman dumbed down. It would ruin the game for me.

#29 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 04:54 AM

View PostCrusbbcc, on 28 October 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Hmm what kind of comparison is this?! Pretty biased in my opinion.

First you compare an 80 ton with a 100 ton Mech. Apples and oranges. Take an Atlas so it's 100(Atlas) vs 100(Dire Wolf) and you get 1557 vs 2341 (BV1). Oh not so hugely different suddenly :)?
Then take the Atlas II and oh suddenly 1740 (BV1). All with weapons we have in the game lb10x, lrm20, erll, med pulse and srm6, production year 2765.
Now look at the Atlas III....2564(BV2) vs 2712(BV2) dire wolf...once rotaries are included.
No you want to Nerf them and the IS then to make the clans a bit more powerful?!?
Funny...

This is BV as it stands using 3050 Mechs out of the Book. The Clans do not attack the inner Sphere with second line Mechs , So I will not compare them to sides equipment. If you want to bring a ire Wolf to fight an Atlas, you are not showing true Clan Honor. I can show you some Clan medium Omnis that are an equal match to an Atlas by BV if you would like *COUGH Stormcrow*COUGH*.

#30 Crusbbcc

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:30 PM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 29 October 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

This right here. I came to the monitor to play against the Clans, The Clans have better tech, and they have it for a long time. I for one do not want my boogieman dumbed down. It would ruin the game for me.


yes, yes and yes!

That's exactly what I think. Who wants to eat Porridge every day?
Not us ;)!

#31 CMetz

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:43 AM

While I think that the Clans should not be nerfed at all, I also believe that everything can be made up for in the metagame. There are some interesting differences regarding Clan society that would make things much more balanced due to the metagame. First- mechs are awarded to people in Clan society. They do not buy them with Cbills like IS MechWarriors can. I'm sure the game can be altered a little to suggest this. Maybe we have steep requirements of people who wish to upgrade their Clan mechs and force them to use high amounts of GXP to do so. One option would be to limit the amount of mechs that a Clan player could have at one time. I'm a huge fan of making clan units binaries and IS units companies. How about double Cbill and XP payout for IS units that defeat clan units? Something could possibly be done to represent zellbrigen. There are a large number of factors that eventually enabled the IS to defeat the Clans regularly. I guess what I'm saying here is that while Clan mechs will most certainly be more attractive to players, maybe what needs to be done is make it less attractive from a metagame standpoint to play as a member of the Clans.

#32 CyclonerM

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 05:11 AM

View PostCrusbbcc, on 02 November 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

That's exactly what I think. Who wants to eat Porridge every day?
Not us ;)!

Brace yourself. When the Jade Falcons will push in the Lyran Alliance you will drink fusionnaires every day :)

#33 KinLuu

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:39 AM

Asymetric numbers do not work in an FPS game. They work in games were one player commands several units, but not in a game were each unit is controlled by a different player.

No one wants to be on the disadvantaged side - as no one wants to be cannon fodder. Instead, everyone will want to be on the advantaged side - as everyone likes to get them kills.

Clan tech needs to be balanced on a 1vs1 basis - how, that is up to PGI.

#34 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:50 AM

View PostKinLuu, on 05 November 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Asymetric numbers do not work in an FPS game. They work in games were one player commands several units, but not in a game were each unit is controlled by a different player.

No one wants to be on the disadvantaged side - as no one wants to be cannon fodder. Instead, everyone will want to be on the advantaged side - as everyone likes to get them kills.

Clan tech needs to be balanced on a 1vs1 basis - how, that is up to PGI.

Funny I joined the Lyran Alliance to fight Clanners. So that kinda put a hole in our "No One" theory. I don't want my Unstoppable opponent to be defanged, it would ruin the game for me.

#35 KinLuu

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:54 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 05 November 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Funny I joined the Lyran Alliance to fight Clanners. So that kinda put a hole in our "No One" theory. I don't want my Unstoppable opponent to be defanged, it would ruin the game for me.


Ok. Allow me to rephrase:

Nearly no one, apart from some madmen.

#36 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 06:55 AM

View PostKinLuu, on 05 November 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:


Ok. Allow me to rephrase:

Nearly no one, apart from some madmen.

Goliath... Meet my friend David! :)

#37 CyclonerM

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:41 AM

View PostKinLuu, on 05 November 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Asymetric numbers do not work in an FPS game. They work in games were one player commands several units, but not in a game were each unit is controlled by a different player.

No one wants to be on the disadvantaged side - as no one wants to be cannon fodder. Instead, everyone will want to be on the advantaged side - as everyone likes to get them kills.

Clan tech needs to be balanced on a 1vs1 basis - how, that is up to PGI.


They already stated that their Clan tech will not be in any way superior to IS tech. At least not too much..
If everything will work as intended™, with 12vs10 clanners might even be the disadvantaged side.
Besides, i will never tire of repeating that Clanners are organized in Stars of five 'Mechs and a small numerical disadvantage would kind of reflect the bidding process.

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 05 November 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Funny I joined the Lyran Alliance to fight Clanners. So that kinda put a hole in our "No One" theory. I don't want my Unstoppable opponent to be defanged, it would ruin the game for me.

If we will ever share a front in the invasion map i will be honored to fight you in my custom Timberwolf! :)

Edited by CyclonerM, 06 November 2013 - 07:00 AM.


#38 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 07:56 AM

View PostCyclonerM, on 05 November 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

If we will ever share a front in the invasion map i will be honored to fight you in my custom Timberwolf! :D

I look forward to that day! ;)

Hopefully I will have my Battlemaster before then. :)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 05 November 2013 - 07:57 AM.


#39 Crusbbcc

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Posted 05 November 2013 - 04:13 PM

View PostKinLuu, on 05 November 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Asymetric numbers do not work in an FPS game. They work in games were one player commands several units, but not in a game were each unit is controlled by a different player.

No one wants to be on the disadvantaged side - as no one wants to be cannon fodder. Instead, everyone will want to be on the advantaged side - as everyone likes to get them kills.

Clan tech needs to be balanced on a 1vs1 basis - how, that is up to PGI.



Hi!

I completely disagree! They should not be balanced on 1v1 basis? That would mean they are as strong as IS mechs? That does not make sense.
Also Mechwarrior is not supposed to be a FPS game. Its supposed to be a simulation.
Lets FPS guys go back to their cod or whatever...

#40 CyclonerM

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 07:03 AM

View PostCrusbbcc, on 05 November 2013 - 04:13 PM, said:

Lets FPS guys go back to their cod or whatever...

You can see as they are the most influential crowd because thanks to them PGI can pay the bills. This game will never be a simulation. Sad, quiaff?





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