28 replies to this topic

[Enoch Xarr]

Why would I want to play a game where the punishment for idiotic behavior is so menial as to be completely ineffective. I just played a round where 4 members of my team attacked and killed me for absolutely no reason. (Or rather rearranging the lances which is something perfectly legit to do.) Team killing should result in a massive C-bill loss not the trivial 10k you lose now. In matches where getting 100k is common a 10k penalty certain is no deterrent to idiocy. Moronic behavior like this should hurt the idiots way more than the victims and that is certainly not the case as I only received 25k for the round when my harassers will have certainly gained more for that. I have screen shots of one of the morons in question is there a way I can turn him in for harassing me?

Edited by Enoch Xarr, 22 October 2013 - 09:16 PM.

[Arnold J Rimmer]

Email support@mwomercs.com

Also maybe ask before moving people, just in case. And hey, if it avoids this happening again, all the better!

[L zard]

Possibly by sending said screenies in to 'support'. I really doubt much would actually happen unless they get noticed by other people. Join a 'group', it will help.

[luxebo]

Enoch Xarr, on 22 October 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

Team killing should result in a massive C-bill loss not the trivial 10k you lose now. In matches where getting 100k is common a 10k penalty certain is no deterrent to idiocy.

I personally don't know though, I legibly ran over multiple light mechs, some how killing them in separate matches. If you lose all too much for accidental team kills (like I accidentally ran over a legged locust with my atlas in Frozen city once, that was embarrassing.) I also have been team killed by accident multiple times in lights. It sometimes happens, so I dunno whether to say add on to the 10k you lose for team killing.

Besides that, yeah I hate team killing. I had once where the enemy team started a civil war in Crimson Straits and before our team could get to the first capture point, the enemy team had killed all of themselves. Funny on my team, but really sucks if you were a victim of something stupid like that. And then the last man even override kills himself. Stuff like this happens, can't really stop it. Anyway, the others have already put in the main question's answer.

[Hexenhammer]

Wait till community warfare starts up and the the Liao Goons start figuring out ways to bork things up for everyone.

[Toffa]

Enoch Xarr, on 22 October 2013 - 09:15 PM, said:

I just played a round where 4 members of my team attacked and killed me for absolutely no reason. (Or rather rearranging the lances which is something perfectly legit to do.)

Ah-ha! I have also seen this happen. I have also seen "Company Commanders" flat out refuse to put pre-mades back together, even when asked nicely. I am in no way condoning Tk's, just saying what I've seen and adding some food for thought for you... Your right(correct). It's perfectly legit. But it's not an automatic right...

Arnold J Rimmer, on 22 October 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Also maybe ask before moving people, just in case. And hey, if it avoids this happening again, all the better!

^^ This. Lots of this. Did it myself yesterday. Asked if we had any pre-mades and if anyone minded a little switch-a-roo. Received positive and negative responses (respectively) and left it at that.

Don't mess with peoples worlds without asking first. Not justifying their behaviour, just trying to save you from some frustration.

Toffs ( '-')7

Edit for typing like it's friday...

Edited by Toffa, 22 October 2013 - 10:23 PM.

[Modo44]

Arnold J Rimmer, on 22 October 2013 - 09:17 PM, said:

Also maybe ask before moving people, just in case. And hey, if it avoids this happening again, all the better!

He is guilty of "provoking" the TK as much as a **** victim "was asking for it". Quit excusing the griefers.

[Toffa]

Modo44, on 22 October 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

Snip

Not quoting original text as I have reported it for moderation.

Who said anything about provoking/provocation? There was no mention of provocation. Just a little advice in correct use of manners and consideration for other players.

No-one is suggesting the OP "asked for it"
No-one is suggesting the TK was justifiable.

If that is what you got from Arnold's reply, I would suggest you give 1300655506 a quick call.

Toffs ( '-')7

[Wildflame]

The issue is quite simple, really. Wherever there are groups who are already playing together (most likely on voice communications) rearranging lances is detrimental to their ability to coordinate and cooperate. In the best case, this is an innocent behaviour (such as your own) intended to maximise the ability of the company as a whole to perform well. In the worst case, this is a griefing behaviour.

Teams can get quite frustrated when this occurs regularly. As such, I am unsurprised that you were teamkilled in response to rearranging the lances 'without permission'. I do not condone such behaviour. When I drop with a group and another party rearranges our lance, we request that we be placed back together, and that is usually the end of it.

I am under the impression that PGI is aware of this problem and will soon be patching in a way for groups to avoid being split up by a company commander.

As regards the low penalty, this is at least partially because it is possible to TK (indeed, for most people, the only way it happens) by accidentally striking a teammate who is near death. This is a flaw with the current TK mechanics - I personally would prefer a penalty by damage inflicted on teammates (by % to balance differing health of weight classes), maybe with a multiplier for a killing shot. This would more effectively penalise intentional TKs such as that you experienced, while being more lenient towards accidental friendly fire.

TLDR: splitting premades makes them mad; problem is being fixed by making premades unsplittable. TK penalty should be based on % dealt.

Edit: removing unneeded tags.

Edited by Wildflame, 22 October 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[Toffa]

Wildflame, on 22 October 2013 - 10:35 PM, said:

The issue is quite simple, really. Wherever there are groups who are already playing together (most likely on voice communications) rearranging lances is detrimental to their ability to coordinate and cooperate. In the best case, this is an innocent behaviour (such as your own) intended to maximise the ability of the company as a whole to perform well. In the worst case, this is a griefing behaviour.

Teams can get quite frustrated when this occurs regularly. As such, I am unsurprised that you were teamkilled in response to rearranging the lances 'without permission'. I do not condone such behaviour. When I drop with a group and another party rearranges our lance, we request that we be placed back together, and that is usually the end of it.

I am under the impression that PGI is aware of this problem and will soon be patching in a way for groups to avoid being split up by a company commander.

As regards the low penalty, this is at least partially because it is possible to TK (indeed, for most people, the only way it happens) by accidentally striking a teammate who is near death. This is a flaw with the current TK mechanics - I personally would prefer a penalty by damage inflicted on teammates (by % to balance differing health of weight classes), maybe with a multiplier for a killing shot. This would more effectively penalise intentional TKs such as that you experienced, while being more lenient towards accidental friendly fire.

TLDR: splitting premades makes them mad; problem is being fixed by making premades unsplittable. TK penalty should be based on % dealt.

Edit: removing unneeded tags.

Hear Hear! Well said too.

Toffs ( '-')7

[Modo44]

"Manners or get TKd" is directly excusing the TKers. I've been on the receiving end of a "turn off 3PV or we kill you" incident, so I know how those feel for the victim.

[Toffa]

Modo44, on 22 October 2013 - 10:40 PM, said:

"Manners or get TKd" is directly excusing the TKers. I've been on the receiving end of a "turn off 3PV or we kill you" incident, so I know how those feel for the victim.

Modo. I'm not going to get further into this with you.

No-one else is seeing/reading what you are.

You're reading too much into what Arnold, I and others are saying.

No-one is issuing ultimatums like "Manners or get TK'd".

No-one is excusing the TK'ers behaviour.

We are just offering advise on how 'bad peoples' can be avoided.

You think you're the only one here to get TK'd? Must be nice to have the monopoly on understanding...

If you still can't comprehend what we're getting at, please call 1300655506 for further assistance.

Toffs ( '-')7

Edit for again: Typing like it's friday...

Edited by Toffa, 22 October 2013 - 10:53 PM.

[Jarl Dane]

When a person takes company command and disrupts your 4man premade and then patently refuses to put your premade back together. Just kill him and take company command for yourself and put your premade back together.

What's the problem here?

[WonderSparks]

Mech The Dane, on 22 October 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

When a person takes company command and disrupts your 4man premade and then patently refuses to put your premade back together. Just kill him and take company command for yourself and put your premade back together.

What's the problem here?

That would be team killing though, and that's certainly not an ideal solution, y'know?

[Jarl Dane]

WonderSparks, on 22 October 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

That would be team killing though, and that's certainly not an ideal solution, y'know?

Oooooh. I thought this thread was how to deal with in-game harassment. When, ya know, randoms mess up your premade and refuse to fix it.

That's just my suggestion for how to deal with that kind of harassment, purely hypothetical. Quickest way to end the harassment.

[Tekadept]

Mech The Dane, on 22 October 2013 - 11:06 PM, said:

When a person takes company command and disrupts your 4man premade and then patently refuses to put your premade back together. Just kill him and take company command for yourself and put your premade back together.

What's the problem here?

Ummmm. how does somebody moving lances around disrupt your 4 man? I 4 man all the time and if we get moved it makes ZERO difference to us. We are on teamspeak we communicate via that, if you are relying on that little box showing your location, you are not comunicating effectively as a 4man over teamspeak.

[WonderSparks]

Mech The Dane, on 22 October 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

Oooooh. I thought this thread was how to deal with in-game harassment. When, ya know, randoms mess up your premade and refuse to fix it.

That's just my suggestion for how to deal with that kind of harassment, purely hypothetical. Quickest way to end the harassment.

I do suppose that is certainly one way to deal with the harassment, yes. And if it weren't so wrong I might actually agree with it more, but we're not supposed to purposely kill people on our teams... no matter how bloody annoying they are.

[Jarl Dane]

Tekadept, on 22 October 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

If you are relying on that little box showing your location, you are not comunicating effectively as a 4man over teamspeak.

Right now. I am, like totally, feeling some serious out of game harassment.

[Mr D One]

Oh Dane, you totes have not felt real harassment yet.

Take it from the original tall poppy.

Anyways I believe that mech farmers who DC at the start of the game should be team killed. I have paid many a 10000 dollar penalty for these repeat offenders.

In fact I believe you should take c bills from their account as they do so disadvantage the team.

[Jarl Dane]

WonderSparks, on 22 October 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

I do suppose that is certainly one way to deal with the harassment, yes. And if it weren't so wrong I might actually agree with it more, but we're not supposed to purposely kill people on our teams... no matter how bloody annoying they are.

Well. PGI will hopefully fix it in the next patch or two. Until then people worried about the 'TK' variety of in-game harassment, should remember to ask before they alter lance compositions. Usually you'll get guys nice enough to ask you to put them back where they are, but this is the internet and you're sure as heck gonna run into guys who are more than willing to display their displeasure with a few AC20's in your rear.

Whatever your intention the action of moving their lance about can be perceived as harassment. And thus your eventual fate as a team-killed husk near your base was ultimately a consequence of your actions.

So Ask!