159 replies to this topic

[Christof Romulus]

Quote

Then why are burst weapons superior to hitting lights? PPC, Gauss pre nerf, AC20, AC in general.

They aren't better at HITTING lights, they're better at KILLING lights.

Because when you DO hit you deal all of that sweet-sweet AC 20 damage, instead of grazing them for 0.6 damage a few times across multiple hit locations with a panicked laser flail.

Edited by Christof Romulus, 25 October 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[KhanHeir]

Christof Romulus, on 25 October 2013 - 03:23 PM, said:

They aren't better at HITTING lights, they're better at KILLING lights.

Because when you DO hit you deal all of that sweet-sweet AC 20 damage, instead of grazing them for 0.6 damage a few times across multiple hit locations with a panicked laser flail.

But it doesn't, Pulse lasers are still DOT, their mechanic is for the most part the same as lasers they just have a slightly shorter duration which doesn't account for much.

The only time a laser does anything is if its boated and tightly, such as in the 4P and even then you go with standard lasers for lower heat.

Edited by KhanHeir, 25 October 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Roadkill]

Ngamok, on 25 October 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

Seems like you found a good use of the LPL.

Except not really. I can't shake the feeling that I should downgrade to a Large Laser and upgrade my XL225 to an XL255 for more speed. Since that would also allow me to drop an external DHS I'd get another half ton of armor and very slightly better heat efficiency on top of the improved heat efficiency of the LL vs the LPL.

But that would cost 4.1 million c-bills, which seems outrageous for such a minor overall improvement.

[KhanHeir]

Roadkill, on 25 October 2013 - 03:46 PM, said:

Except not really. I can't shake the feeling that I should downgrade to a Large Laser and upgrade my XL225 to an XL255 for more speed. Since that would also allow me to drop an external DHS I'd get another half ton of armor and very slightly better heat efficiency on top of the improved heat efficiency of the LL vs the LPL.

But that would cost 4.1 million c-bills, which seems outrageous for such a minor overall improvement.

Use ER-LL's

you get range when you need it for the same heat and with the same damage. the only thing you're getting is a lousy .40 duration reduction making the ER large laser a 2.12 dps compared to 2.75.

OH BOY, a whole 0.63 damage per second, for an extra 2 tons and Less range.



YOU KNOW WHAT, FORGET IT,

BRB I'm going to wrap everyones head around why the Pulse lasers are absolute garbage and then I'm going to take the TT description and rub it in every ones faces on how PGI got it WRONG AGAIN.



Some one tell PP to go home and be a family man.

Edited by KhanHeir, 25 October 2013 - 03:56 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

well this is an easy one. which oppotunities present themselves more oftern? an under 150M brawl where your numbers out do the enemies and the enemies are more likely to overheat than you? or slower paced longer ranged engaugements? guess which cooler longer ranged weapon will find more use and effeciency in the overall course of an engaugement? srm boats JJ brawlers and jager bombs also say hi we're better at close range skirmishing than you LPL.

[Deathlike]

Short answer: No

Long answer: LPL is "usable" in the sense that it "works". However, compared to other comparable weapons in its optimal range (med laser, MPL to a lesser extent) and within its "tonnage" and heat profile (large laser, PPC, ER Large), the alternatives are simply better.

Edited by Deathlike, 25 October 2013 - 04:24 PM.

[KhanHeir]

ER-LL's VS Pulse LL's

you get range when you need it for the same heat and with the same damage. the only thing you're getting is a lousy .40 duration reduction making the ER large laser a 2.12 dps compared to 2.75.

OH BOY, a whole 0.63 damage per second, for an extra 2 tons and Less range.


Mlas vs MPulse Las

Alright so like check it, Medium Pulse laser stands in at 6 damage and 5 heat with a 180 effective range and a prayer range of 360. They cost you a 1/4th more heat than a Mlas Twice the weight and only get a 1/5th extra damage and 0.42 extra damage a second.

Here is why you take a Medium over it, 1 Range, 180 is a danger zone for any mech willing to carry Mlas effectively, You're either a medium or a Light, do not argue opinion or taste. 360 at prayer range is a can be anything from persuing an enemy light to making a relative pass on a mech, you might as well be using flamers.

Medium laser has less heat, Half the weight, Its effective range is at 270 and its prayer range is at 540, this can mean victory or death depending on the circumstance. These fit better in any medium or light because it offers them advantages for less, instead of gimping them for a SFX and a shorter burn.

If you're going to install a burst weapon in a light mech, might as well just make it an ERPPC. It offers better twitch hitting has heat management same as Pulse boating and the tonnage cost. Plus as soon as the hit lands all the damage transfers, there is no burn time like with the Pulse lasers, so you can hit it and quit it.


Now contrary to popular belief, PULSE LASERS ARE LESS ACCURATE and I'll tell you why. Because they require a firing duration just like lasers and carry none of the advantages of a burst weapon, you can't hit it and quit it like a PPC. They only carry a small adjustment to firing duration, just noticeable enough.

Why is this bad? Because you can't have your cake and eat it too, the firing duration is still a firing duration and that still requires the pilot to aim, a +2 adjustment should be an assistance in the pilots favor of roll.

Mlas can do this because if a mech is twisting quickly and you're trying to crit a heat sink or ammo or a weapon or even do that 1 tic of damage on a red component you get a longer duration to try. Thus you can adjust accordingly as you are striking the mech. This is why Slow motion in fast paced FPS games like F.E.A.R. help, because the player can adjust his aim as he sees the rounds travel from his barrel.

You need to get your head around that " YOU " are the 3/5 pilot and you aren't always accurate, so a weapon with increased accuracy should assist you. The tight burn duration doesn't, it gimps you because it requires you to maintain on target with....

Less visual cue than a standard laser - You cannot see the laser passing and striking over time like standards.
Small window to continue doing this- the mech can jump, bump, turn torso what ever.
Extremely short range - if he's past your effective range just call him gone.


The only weapon pulse wise worth your effort are smalls Because their range is compared to standard smalls and they're so damned light it becomes insignificant. Of course you can't Boat enough of them and any mech taking advantage of that is too small or doing it wrong.


So solution? Drop the burn rate because as far as table top is concerned Pulse lasers are this........



Pulse lasers differ from traditional laser weaponry in that instead of firing one powerful beam, they maintain laser beams fired off in quick succession. While offering an overall increased rate of fire, the heat output also increases accordingly. Pulse lasers increase damage because they allow vaporized armor to dissipate from the location of damage. This allows subsequent pulses to reach the target area without being diffused by the vapor.


Cannot maintain, please refrain, it has no demain, your tears is rain.

don't be insane, you argue in vain, you can call me the overgolds bane.

Edited by KhanHeir, 25 October 2013 - 04:29 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

KhanHeir, on 25 October 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Use ER-LL's

you get range when you need it for the same heat and with the same damage. the only thing you're getting is a lousy .40 duration reduction making the ER large laser a 2.12 dps compared to 2.75.

OH BOY, a whole 0.63 damage per second, for an extra 2 tons and Less range.

er make more heat according to this in comparresent to LL, so you're trading off tactics in which case if you're sniping from that distance may as well go erppc you'll have your cooldown time and will fair just as badly when overrun than you would with erLLs. and the LPL looks worse cause it doesn't have the range and therefore no place to run and cooldown unless you're a fast mech. so yeah either the ppcs or the LL the others are too niche and ineffecient for the majority of your battle time.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 25 October 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[KhanHeir]

GalaxyBluestar, on 25 October 2013 - 04:24 PM, said:

er make more heat according to this in comparresent to LL, so you're trading off tactics in which case if you're sniping from that distance may as well go erppc you'll have your cooldown time and will fair just as badly when overrun than you would with erLLs. and the LPL looks worse cause it doesn't have the range and therefore no place to run and cooldown unless you're a fast mech. so yeah either the ppcs or the LL the others are too niche and ineffecient for the majority of your battle time.

YOU FORGOT GHOST HEAT!

CANNOT BOAT ENOUGH!

CANNOT SWIPE WITH PPC!




NOBODY BOATS WITH PPC IN MY TOWN!

[Kes Moreau]

Hopefully the devs will take heed and make them more useful at some point in the near future. I miss boating LPLs on my Stalks and hearing the cheerful wubwubwubbing of my death machine.

[Troutmonkey]

I don't know, you tell me: http://mwomercs.com/...120dmg-stalker/

[KhanHeir]

Troutmonkey, on 25 October 2013 - 04:50 PM, said:

I don't know, you tell me:

Those are some mighty fine cherries.

[Hanz Blitzer]

My blackjack BJ-3 has 2 large pulses paired with two medium lasers. I figured it was a build I could have fun with until I completed the elite skills, but I have really come to like this build. I will eventually overheat if I keep using my alpha strike, but I do not constantly fire. I have the largest engine my mech can hold, and I zip around and choose my shots. This build gets me high damage, a few kills, and a fun time. Large Pulse Lasers are viable if they are used in a manner that suits them. They are not currently suited for a sustained engagement. Hit and run with them.

[Jman5]

Viable? Sure

Optimal? Probably not

[GalaxyBluestar]

KhanHeir, on 25 October 2013 - 04:38 PM, said:

YOU FORGOT GHOST HEAT!

CANNOT BOAT ENOUGH!

CANNOT SWIPE WITH PPC!


NOBODY BOATS WITH PPC IN MY TOWN!

of course... i was just saying er's and lpls run hotter and have less practicle uses than ppc's or ll. of course you can't boat anymore you'll find LL-ppc builds but even they're rare cases because energies in general run too hot compared to ballistics. nowdays you'll see 4ml 2ll stalkers more oftern than any of the old boats and lurms are coming back into fasion. GH killer of energy derivitive chassis and niche builds which half were only trolololol average builds anyways.

[Troutmonkey]

KhanHeir, on 25 October 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

Those are some mighty fine cherries.

The fact that the build overheats and explodes was more the idea.... So far I've tried LPL a couple of times after each patch and each time I've either gone back to LL or PPC. More heat, more weight, much less range and only slightly more damage doesn't really cut it for me.

[Detrimus]

I like that Pulse lasers function differently in their range and damage and heat. What I don't like is how heavy they are.

I feel that the DPS is already balanced with the increased heat and shorter range, if they were the same tonnage as their non-pulse counterparts then I feel they would be balanced much better and far more useful without breaking the game.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Commodore Frank, on 25 October 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

I really want to like them, but I get far more done with regular old large lasers.

Same...I don't think there is a single mech that I have LPL's on at this time and cannot remember a time when I did use them. If I were to take on the extra heat would rather go with a ERLL instead. For the shorter range and the heat the LPL is simply not worth it, one point of dmg is not all that enticing.

Edited by xMEPHISTOx, 26 October 2013 - 01:10 AM.

[Bhael Fire]

I like them. They are pretty decent primary brawling weapons, if you have the tonnage for the heatsinks to manage them.

[Thorqemada]

I would use Pulse Lasers if i could somehow free up the Tonnage on my Mediums but i cant.
I often have LPL in my Atlas arms but i almost never use that Mech...^^
Some Lights with Pulse Laser can be very very nasty!