50 replies to this topic

[Red October911]

Well i'm not new to mechwarrior online, but I don't use many indirect fire weapons like the LRMs (hell the LRMs are pretty much the only indirect fire weapons but i digress).

I was wondering how I can increase the accuracy of my LRMs... I know that you have to keep the target in lock, have TAG, NARC, or Artemis (or allies can use TAG or NARC) but what I want to know more is when is it the best time to fire to increase the chance of a hit?

By that I mean, should I start dumping my LRMs on the first fellow i meet (acquire target, not engage in battle with), should I wait for TAG acquisition (by friendly or me) before firing any of my rockets, should I avoid firing them at light mechs etc.

Thanks for the info!

[Nothing Whatsoever]

From what mech? The advice can vary a bit due to the size of the salvos, amount of available ammo and missile hardpoints.

But in general, I try to focus on the following:

• Lights, fast mechs and/or mechs that are close to cover, the goal should be to distract them with the missile warning, so light chain firing is an option to not waste too much ammo. Don't expect to damage mechs you can't see to keep lock yourself, if you are firing on targets that allies lock onto, since lock can frequently break with LRMs mid-flight wasting salvos.
  
• A slower mech in the open, or one that can't get to cover in time, focus them down. The best results I've had is firing around at 600 meters to 180 M, with a decent line of sight that I can maintain for the duration of the LRM flight.

And Target Decay is a nice module to use along with the other necessary gear for LRMs.

[Solveig]

it takes a pretty considerable amount of experience to consistently get indirect fire hits from the back of your team, behind cover. an important thing to master is memorizing the layout of the maps. if you can visualize to any degree of accuracy the layout of terrain and buildings in the vicinity of your target, your chances of solid hits go way up. this seems pretty daunting, but in reality its easier than it seems. most maps have only a handful of good, open, lrm killzones, and then a handful of possible places to shoot from. memorize these and you are golden. in the meantime, get in a jack of all trades mech like a jagermech-A, load up something snipey like gauss and lrms, and learn the kill spots while being effective on your own. there's probably a better build than that but it's just an example.

[Johnny Reb]

Red October911, on 25 October 2013 - 07:45 PM, said:

Well i'm not new to mechwarrior online, but I don't use many indirect fire weapons like the LRMs (hell the LRMs are pretty much the only indirect fire weapons but i digress).

I was wondering how I can increase the accuracy of my LRMs... I know that you have to keep the target in lock, have TAG, NARC, or Artemis (or allies can use TAG or NARC) but what I want to know more is when is it the best time to fire to increase the chance of a hit?

By that I mean, should I start dumping my LRMs on the first fellow i meet (acquire target, not engage in battle with), should I wait for TAG acquisition (by friendly or me) before firing any of my rockets, should I avoid firing them at light mechs etc.

Thanks for the info!

If you can see the target plug away, if its an indirect target, first see the mech type and where he is on the map (map knowledge needed) then if in a good spot (open) and you have enough ammo to send for indirect fire, then fire away!

[Greyrook]

I personally say it's always worth at least one salvo if you can get a target lock (regardless of whether it's an ally's line of sight or yours because if they notice and try to break lock, it's taking that mech off the frontline for at least the time it takes the missiles to explode since the missile warning will last the full flight of the volley. Lights are the tricky ones, and I'd say I agree with the above advice regarding them. I still fire on them though since it will usually impact their legs and that's what you're trying to take out on lights, but it's more of a conscious choice. Ultimately, I say the goal is to have enough missiles that you're always launching them, because keeping the enemy pressed back gives your side the chance to push up and get the positioning they want. Doesn't always work in practice, but it doesn't hurt anything other than your ammo count.

[Sephlock]

But but but but I was told that LRMs took no skill (and could core a fully armored atlas in one volley to the front)!

What is this madness?!

*ahem*

ANYWAY, if you really want to get the most out of the missiles, you don't want a target that is TAGged, you want a target THAT WILL STAY TAGged- at least until your missiles hit.

Basically, before you pull the trigger, you need to either know that you are going to be able to keep your laser on your target until your missiles arrive, or determine that whatever TAG using teammate you have lighting up your target is going to keep doing so until your missiles arrive.

Alternatively, you could hope for the holy grail of LRM-ing: a distracted target out in the open.

Good luck with that above the lowest ELO brackets.

Edited by Sephlock, 27 October 2013 - 02:07 AM.

[Autobot9000]

I think this question can be answered.

Artemis and TAG both work only with direct LOS, hence if you do fire them indirectly as you say you will not receive a bonus. If another mech is using TAG for you that's a different situation though.

The morale of the story is: If you never want facetime with your target you can skip Artemis altogether, which in turn means you're not gonna be an effective damage dealer. Hence the only solution is to get some facetime with your target. I advise you play actively with the group, i.e. you let everyone else decide where to go and just follow them with a 300m distance to the leading mech. This will keep your LRM support mech out of the trouble and reduce all short range damage dealt to you greatly (bc damage is decreasing with distance).

Edit:
To be sure: If you despite all the downsides still decide to fire indirectly then look on the mini map and choose a mech, that is decently exposed. It's never a good idea to fire LRMs on a target, that is close to cover.

Edited by Autobot9000, 27 October 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[mailin]

I have something to add here. You also need to look at the loadout of your enemies, and be mindful of when enemies are going under ECM cover. If you are sending lrms on an enemy that also has lrms, you may need to move out of los and switch targets. If however, your teammates are closing to brawling range, look for an enemy that is a brawler and pummel him to death. Also, this is very important, if the enemy you have targeted or are firing on has a little red eyeball that suddenly appears by him, it means he is now under ECM and will probably be no longer locked very soon. Do not fire any more lrms at this point, because they will probably be wasted. Wait and see if he reappears. One more bit of advice. If you have a salvo on its way and you lose lock, do not automatically switch targets. Wait until your last salvo fired has hit something, and watch your targeting reticle. If it turns red it means you have hit something (hopefully an enemy) which may indicate your target shut down and will restart soon. Also, if you lose a target after firing a salvo, but then regain him any missiles still in range will resume tracking that target. In that case, stay on that target and keep up the pressure.

[Bront]

Some LRMing tips:

1) Mount LRM launchers your mech can effectively fire. Mounting them with inadequate tubes means you get additional volleys, and effecitvely a longer cooldown, as your weapon cooldown doesn't start till the final volley is fired. (Example - The Stalker 3F has 10 tube racks in the arms and 6 tube racks in the torso. Mounting an LRM20 would result in either 2 volleys of 10, or 3 volleys of 6 followed by 1 volley of 2)

2) Fire on "hard locked targets". A hard locked target is a target that someone has good LOS on that should last the duration of the missile flight (1-4 seconds depending on range). If you or someone else doesn't maintain the lock, your missiles go for the last location rather than track further.

3) Watch your missiles in. Your missiles target better as long as you maintain your targeting (as mentioned in tip 2). Better targeting means more missiles hit (as they adjust to the target's movement), and depending on other factors, potentially cluster better, allowing more to hit and more to hit core components (CT, Side Torsos, Head). Fire and forget a target can be used for suppression, but isn't going to do much damage and may not work.

4) Bring additional gear. Beagle (BAP) can prevent a single ECM mech from shutting you down nearby, and give you better range on LOS targets beyond 800M. Advanced target decay can help you look in your missiles (tip 3) longer on targets that move out of LOS of you and teammates.

5) TAG, NARC, and ARTEMIS are your friends. All 3 help lock faster and have missiles track better, resulting in making it easier to fire, and doing more damage as well as more centered damage. Don't simply rely on your teammates mounting TAG or NARC (particularly in PUGs), and it never hurts to have TAG yourself, but for any serious LRM boat, Artemis is almost a requirement. NARC isn't very popular because the effects don't stack with Artemis, the launcher is heavy, and it requires ammo. Keep in mind, using TAG yourself means you need to have a "shot" at your target (it's a laser pointer), and Artemis is supposed to only work with LOS (it seems to work regardless at the moment), but they are tonnage well spent for extra damage and killing power. TAG and NARC also let you peirce AMS though, which is worthwhile.

6) Optimal LRM range is 300-600m. Firing any longer range, and your opponent has time to get under cover. Under 300m, I find the firing arc is a lot more direct, so you aren't firing over as many obstacles.

7) Mount some kind of close range weapon. LRMs do NO damage under 180m. Don't leave yourself 100% defenseless at that range. MLs are small and easy to mount, but effective. SSRMs benefit from TAG, BAP, and (incorrectly) Artemis and don't weigh too much with only a ton of ammo (for mechs who can't mount MLs).

8) Chainfire may be annoying to some, but a large group alpha fire is more effective. The LRM5 chainfire mechs may annoy some, but the LRMs get eaten up by AMS. Larger groups will get a smaller percentage of LRMs eaten by AMS, That's not to say chainfire doesn't have it's place, but you're better off with a large alpha in most situations. This is similar also why tip #1 is tip #1. Example, if you're mounting 2 LRM10s and 2 LRM15s, you're better off firing them as an LRM50 in most cases, though chainfiring them could be effective in some situations.

9) Watch your heat. Sure, you can shutdown safer than most mechs from the back ranks, but your missile tracking may suffer because you're not looking your missiles in or using your TAG. Since chainfiring can help manage heat, it's a useful option at times in situations where heat is an issue (often your 2nd or 3rd fully volley).

10) Be careful targeting lights (or fast mechs in general). Lights can outrun missiles, or run into cover quickly, so they're hard to hit. Doesn't mean there's not value in firing an occasional shot, but don't expect to hit them with a lot of missiles unless they're close (200-400m) or traveling in a straight line (or standing still). That said, keep in mind an LRM alpha that hits a light can devastate it, and there's some value in making a light run for cover or worry about missiles, so use discretion.

11) Know your terrain. Knowing where you can fire successfully and where it's not worth it is important. You can't hit mechs in tunnels, fire over some mountain ridges, or fire from behind cover that's too tall. Back up a bit, watch the horizon, or even fire a test shot if you're unsure. As you learn the maps, you'll learn more places you can be effective as an LRM mech.

12) Watch for AMS. You can see if your target has AMS when you see his loadout, but also watch the horizon for AMS fire in the vacinity. Team AMS cover can be very useful in preventing you from doing damage, and it can also let you know if there are a large number of mechs in an area. A single AMS can take out 3-4 missiles per volley, so keep that in mind when firing.

13) Watch your target for damage. Make sure you're doing damage. Learn when your missiles hit and watch their doll light up and/or their % drop. If nothing is happening after a salvo or two that you can attribute to yourself, you might be better off moving on to a different target.

14) Prioritize your targets when possible. Getting kills is nice, but part of being an LRM boat is softening up targets for your direct fire teammates. So, got a stalker that's a stick? Fire one last salvo and move on. That Atlas is a higher priority target than that Centurian.

15) Position yourself wisely. You don't need to be on the front lines, but you don't want to be too far back either. Base being attacked? You don't need to get back, but if you can get close, you can support anyone who does get back. You're better on the high ground, but since you can use indirect fire, it doesn't always need to be the highest ground or exposed. In many ways, you need to be more situationally aware than your brawler comrades and learn to react quickly to changing tides in the battle.

That was a bit longer than I expected, but that should sum up the keys to being an effective LRM fire support mech.

[Red October911]

Thanks for all the info guys, i'll be sure to keep it in mind

[Koniving]

Praetor Shepard, on 25 October 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

From what mech? The advice can vary a bit due to the size of the salvos, amount of available ammo and missile hardpoints.

But in general, I try to focus on the following:

• Lights, fast mechs and/or mechs that are close to cover, the goal should be to distract them with the missile warning, so light chain firing is an option to not waste too much ammo. Don't expect to damage mechs you can't see to keep lock yourself, if you are firing on targets that allies lock onto, since lock can frequently break with LRMs mid-flight wasting salvos.
  
• A slower mech in the open, or one that can't get to cover in time, focus them down. The best results I've had is firing around at 600 meters to 180 M, with a decent line of sight that I can maintain for the duration of the LRM flight.

And Target Decay is a nice module to use along with the other necessary gear for LRMs.

Regarding these.

• LRM-5s are great for the first.
  
• For the second, LRM-10s to 20s backed with LRM-5s galore for lots of extra slots.
  
  • Regarding the second, for direct fire LRMs (you can see them and there is no cover), 190 (for leeway and travel time as less than 180 is wasted) to 400 meters.
    
  • For enemies behind cover, only target Slow Moving Enemies like assault mechs and fire at them at 650 and beyond (LRMs go way up and come straight down damaging front and back alike; leads to fast kills and no amount of torso twisting will protect them from vertical attacks).

[Victor Morson]

Some quick info on LRMs:

• You should use them on a 'mech fast enough to stay out of minimum range, and inside of maximum. I recommend, highly, the Cent 9D 2x LRM15 1x TAG as the optimal LRM platform as a result. LRM assaults do not carry the speed required to properly field LRMs.
  
• Remember Ghost Heat impacts all launchers at 2 except the LRM/5. This means if you fire 3x LRM/10 and 1x LRM/20, you take Ghost Heat for 4x LRM20. The LRM/5 is unlinked. Optimally this means you can run 2x 15s, 2x 5s safely but not 4x 10s. Make sure to keep this in mind.
  
• Also some 'mechs have different dynamic missile ports than other. Putting LRMs on a narc port will string them out one at a time - this will hamper your DPS unless it's a very small launcher like the 5. Some 'mechs on the other hand will expand to fire every missile at once, like the Highlander or Centurion.
  
• You always want Artemis. ALWAYS.
  
• Never carry less than 25-30 LRM tubes in total. Anything less will be completely eliminated by AMS. Those designs with a single LRM/5 or 10 to "shake people up" are horribly wasted tonnage.
  
• Always carry your own TAG. It's great if other people have TAG to help you out, but if you need to pierce an ECM bubble so you can fire LRMs on people within, TAG is your best friend - it's also the ONLY way missiles will gain enough tracking speed to effectively harm light 'mechs.
  
• Always carry a BAP! Without a BAP, a single light 'mech with ECM can just walk up to you and shut you down ENTIRELY. BAP is absolutely vital equipment.
  
• Advanced Target Decay is highly recommended for LRM users.
  
• Remember, NARC does not give tracking bonuses to Artemis missiles. This makes an already crappy weapon even worse, so never ever deal with it.
  
• Remember, don't bother opening your bay doors with LRMs. That extra armor on 'mechs like the Catapult or Centurion are very worthwhile, since the delay barely impacts them. This is in shark contrast to SRMs or Streaks on those designs.

[Victor Morson]

Bront, on 27 October 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

7) Mount some kind of close range weapon. LRMs do NO damage under 180m. Don't leave yourself 100% defenseless at that range. MLs are small and easy to mount, but effective. SSRMs benefit from TAG, BAP, and (incorrectly) Artemis and don't weigh too much with only a ton of ammo (for mechs who can't mount MLs).

This is the only one I disagree with, but largely that's because I firmly believe the only place for LRMs the way they are in this game is on mediums; you have to throw in and dedicate entirely to them. Squeezing on a couple lasers at the expense of ammo is going to make you a far less effective LRM boat, and two medlas has never "discouraged" anybody, let alone allowed you to destroy/damage a light.

If you decide to run an LRM assault by all means, but in general, optimal LRM boats won't have even a little space for "backup" guns, and if they do, that space should probably be used by ammo. It's a super tight fit getting them working on medium 'mechs but the results - being able to keep optimal range on your victims - are well worth that price.

Edited by Victor Morson, 27 October 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Tesunie]

I have an LRM guide posted on the forums. It is still fairly relevant. Link to the thread is in my signature.

That is of course if people here haven't already answered your questions.

[mailin]

I agree with most of what Victor wrote except:

Victor Morson, on 27 October 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Some quick info on LRMs:

• LRM assaults do not carry the speed required to properly field LRMs.
  
• 
  
• You always want Artemis. ALWAYS.
  

These two things really depend on what you are trying to accomplish. For my case, neither apply. I have a Stalker 5M with 5 lrm 5s and no artemis. Artie would add 5 tons to my weight, and take 5 extra critical slots. Artie is ideally suited to lrm 15 and 20s, but as the number of tubes goes down, the cost of equipping it gets proportionally more. Also, I rarely have issues getting my Stalker into position. Additionally, I don't think a medium can carry 2160 rounds of ammo like I can, in addition to 4 mlas, a tag and AMS with 1 ton of ammo, all the while with a standard engine and while remaining heat neutral with the main weapons. Lots of advantages to my Stalker, and really very few disadvantages. (Oh, and I generally chain fire my 5s.)

[Alex Warden]

i personally prefere a more mobile LRM Mech for direct fire, moving with my group but use them as cover. direct fire provides me a line of sight, which is the only way to make Artemis work effectively. The downside is, you are involved in the battles directly and takes a bit of experience in mech-combat in general. But hey, it´s also way more fun than hanging back there and shoot at invisible targets

[RLBell]

Victor Morson, on 27 October 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Some quick info on LRMs:

• Remember, don't bother opening your bay doors with LRMs. That extra armor on 'mechs like the Catapult or Centurion are very worthwhile, since the delay barely impacts them. This is in shark contrast to SRMs or Streaks on those designs.

This is true for Centurions and Catapults (except that the delay to open the doors gives an extra delay to lose the lock), but for a Stalker that has LRMs in the sides and the arms, not having the doors opens breaks the salvo into two pieces that extends AMS engagement times.

[Victor Morson]

RLBell, on 27 October 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

This is true for Centurions and Catapults (except that the delay to open the doors gives an extra delay to lose the lock), but for a Stalker that has LRMs in the sides and the arms, not having the doors opens breaks the salvo into two pieces that extends AMS engagement times.

Good to know. I haven't driven a Stalker but yeah, I can see exactly what you mean.

Go ahead and open the bay doors if you're in a 'mech with half bay doored, half open missile slots! heh

[Eaerie]

the bay doors shouldnt have anything to do with the salvo size. that is how many tubes are in that slot.

[Victor Morson]

mailin, on 27 October 2013 - 07:44 PM, said:

I agree with most of what Victor wrote except:
These two things really depend on what you are trying to accomplish. For my case, neither apply. I have a Stalker 5M with 5 lrm 5s and no artemis. Artie would add 5 tons to my weight, and take 5 extra critical slots. Artie is ideally suited to lrm 15 and 20s, but as the number of tubes goes down, the cost of equipping it gets proportionally more. Also, I rarely have issues getting my Stalker into position. Additionally, I don't think a medium can carry 2160 rounds of ammo like I can, in addition to 4 mlas, a tag and AMS with 1 ton of ammo, all the while with a standard engine and while remaining heat neutral with the main weapons. Lots of advantages to my Stalker, and really very few disadvantages. (Oh, and I generally chain fire my 5s.)

5 LRM 5s are only 25 missiles. That's going to get shredded by AMS and without Artemis it's going to splash-scatter everywhere. There's a reason you don't see many setups like this.

The bigger problem is ranging. Whenever I run into any sort of LRM Stalker boat, the Centurion can simply dominate it. It's moving faster and has a skinny sideways profile, so it avoids way more fire than the Stalker and on top of that, it can move in and out of your minimum or maximum ranges at will, while you cannot follow.

That's why I say assault LRM boats are bad. Simply put any competent Cent LRM driver could absolutely floor your 85 ton assault, despite it's other advantages. Doubly so if it's using Artemis + TAG to tighten the groups into direct CT hits instead of scattered damage.

All in all that Stalker would work against typical pug designs fine but would get torn apart by properly fitted mboats unfortunately.