16 replies to this topic

[CGB Behemoth]

I've made screenshots of Locust & Jenner. Screens were made absolytely from identical positions in 3PV. Then i posted image of Locust above Jenner (painted JR in yellow). Was shocked when saw that they are almost one size. Jenner is 15 tonns heavier. Is it a joke?

P.S. Anyone can make same thing to be sure that i'm not luying.
P.P.S. BJ has only +5tonns from Jenner & is almost 2xsize.
P.P.P.S Sorry for my bad English.

Edited by Behemothk, 27 October 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[Modo44]

Yes, and the Quickdraw is almost as big as the Highlander, and nobody knows what happened with the Kintaro. Just be glad the Locust is not the size of an Atlas.

[Hexenhammer]

And the Awesomes can hide behind Thunderbolts or Battlemasters and Wolverines and Griffins will be the same size as ShadowHawks. .

[Mokou]

Hexenhammer, on 27 October 2013 - 12:55 AM, said:

And the Awesomes can hide behind Thunderbolts or Battlemasters and Wolverines and Griffins will be the same size as ShadowHawks. .

Awesomes suffer enough...

[Wildstreak]

I don't see the problem. I still have my old CBT miniatures, they are roughly the same size there too. The Locust has thinner legs but they are both the same height and roughly the same body mass. Seems here they have a greater edge over Jenners, body mass was shrunk also.

About the others, I could see if I still have the right minis to check.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

I have issues with a lot of the relative sizes in this game... this is not one of them. Locust is marginally shorter and much thinner. Given that they are both lights Its a non issue for me. Now when you have mediums that are the same size as heavies and heavies that are the same size as assaults, there are clearly problems

[ArmageddonKnight]

For gameplay balance, we cant have mechs any smaller, the hit detection already cant handle the faster light mechs perfectly, if we made them even smaller.. the hit detection would throw a fit and likely cause the attackers weaposn to explode insteado f hitting the target lol.

Player- targets locust " ima firing ma lazors! "
hit detection - " nope!"
Player - " ima firing ma lazros some more!"
hit detection - "argh ..nope!"
Player - "QQ..ima spaming my lazros all over!"
hit detection - "FUUUU! take this!"
Player - "wtf i exploded ! QQ"

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 27 October 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[Vaderman]

Height and mass are not the same thing. You can fit that locust INSIDE the jenner.

The jenner is obviously about twice the physical mass of the locust, so it being 15 tons heavier than a locust makes sense doesn't it?

Edited by Vaderman, 27 October 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Koniving]

Behemothk, on 27 October 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

I've made screenshots of Locust & Jenner. Screens were made absolytely from identical positions in 3PV. Then i posted image of Locust above Jenner (painted JR in yellow). Was shocked when saw that they are almost one size. Jenner is 15 tonns heavier. Is it a joke?

P.S. Anyone can make same thing to be sure that i'm not luying.
P.P.S. BJ has only +5tonns from Jenner & is almost 2xsize.
P.P.P.S Sorry for my bad English.

2 tons are in additional armor. The skeleton weighs 1.5 more tons with the structure alone. The remainder of the size and weight difference are in larger and more plentiful weapons as well as a MUCH heavier set of engines.

Also, you are forgetting that the Jenner is almost 1.5 times as long as the Locust.

If you rotated the Jenner's body so that its back rests on its hips, it would in fact be taller than a Blackjack.

Edited by Koniving, 27 October 2013 - 11:31 AM.

[Wildstreak]

For the sake of all those who love size/mass discussions, I did some photos of miniatures I have of MWO Mechs including Locust/Jenner, I posted a topic here since it was a miniature comparison. You can see the Locust vs. Jenner, the MWO Locust is better off with a smaller body and slightly shorter height (this was the unseen Locust, I don't have a Phoenix one.) I even tossed in a Locust IIC in the picture.

Edited by Merchant, 27 October 2013 - 12:26 PM.

[Rasc4l]

What I think is happening with mech sizes is that the scales within the weight classes are not fully appreciated. The largest light is tonnagewise much larger compared to the smallest light vs. largest assault vs. lightest assault:

Hmm it's giving me an error "You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community." so here's the link:

http://imageshack.us/f/59/jpye.png/

The point is that the smallest light is only 57 % of the weight of the largest light. This difference within a weight class decreases with increasing weight and is only 80 % for heavy and assault classes.

I therefore think that this should be better reflected like OP is trying to say i.e. locust should be much smaller than jenner, which is the heavyweight of the light class.

There has been general discussion about how PGI makes smaller mechs (lights, mediums) too large and the situation is worst within the light class as the numbers in the table above show.

[Durant Carlyle]

I know a woman who weighs less than 150 pounds, and I know a man who weighs 300 pounds. They are both the same height -- 5'9" tall.

A 20-ton 'Mech shouldn't be half (or 57% or whatever) the size of a 35-ton 'Mech, just like a 50-ton 'Mech shouldn't be half the size of a 100-ton 'Mech.

[Vaderman]

This ^^

[Vaderman]

Koniving, on 27 October 2013 - 11:29 AM, said:

2 tons are in additional armor. The skeleton weighs 1.5 more tons with the structure alone. The remainder of the size and weight difference are in larger and more plentiful weapons as well as a MUCH heavier set of engines.

Also, you are forgetting that the Jenner is almost 1.5 times as long as the Locust.

If you rotated the Jenner's body so that its back rests on its hips, it would in fact be taller than a Blackjack.

It's also worth mentioning that an endo-steel skeleton is LARGER than a regular skeleton and weighs LESS. Say whaaaat? /rage

[Toadflakz]

Vaderman, on 28 October 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

It's also worth mentioning that an endo-steel skeleton is LARGER than a regular skeleton and weighs LESS. Say whaaaat? /rage

Not sure if serious or... However, if serious, then *facepalm*, otherwise "Well played sir... Well played..."

[Koniving]

Vaderman, on 28 October 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

It's also worth mentioning that an endo-steel skeleton is LARGER than a regular skeleton and weighs LESS. Say whaaaat? /rage

Different kind of metal. It's a less-dense, lighter metal alloy that has to be thicker and larger in order to match the strength of regular structure.

Another thing to note is if you actually compare the size of a human to the actual mech... You can't sit in a Locust in the position they have you. You'd have to drive it laying down as some would do in many kinds of tanks. Now, if the pilot were placed at the front panel as Alex (the artist) had intended, you would have room to sit down.

You also can't sit in a Commando. In the Commando you'd have to be standing (the cockpit box for first person is actually twice the thickness of the mech) and it'd be super cramped. The blackjack would be a standing cockpit. Just some things to randomly mention.

[Asmosis]

weight isnt directly proportionate to volume, they arent solid lumps of steel afterall, they have space internally that is "empty". Some mechs will have more internal space than others due to design. Toss those mechs into a trash compactor, and compare the crumpled up bricks that result. if those are off, then you can complain.

BOOM

just shot down every complaint about "blablah it weighs xx so it should be xxx high etc"

having said that, the locust is quite a bit smaller target profile looking at the OP screenshot, i thought it was much closer in size. The locust legs have half the size of jenner legs, the uper torso is 1/3 the height and the arms are much smaller.

Edited by Asmosis, 28 October 2013 - 06:51 PM.