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Cataphract Or Orion?


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#21 Roosterfish

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 08:36 PM

I agree Roughneck, for me the 3D is the pick of the litter.

The 4X has it's place but it's a tough mech for me to pilot well. I'm getting better but it's a struggle for me to do well in especially in pugs. I've just elited the 4X and that makes a world of difference. I'll be keeping it just because it's a special mech and it does sing that siren song of multiple AC's so well. Even if I'm eating up terrain it's a good song.

For those of you with the Orion K and Protector how does 2 LRM 15's in the right shoulder work? Do the missiles all come out in one go or is it 15 and 10 with a follow up of 5?

Edited by Roosterfish, 01 November 2013 - 08:37 PM.


#22 Hex Pallett

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:22 PM

I'm gonna stand out and give a shoutout for phract 1X. While 3D may have some edge in agility, that one extra MLas in the arm makes a whole lot of difference. True.

#23 Sandra McCrow

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 08:14 AM

I has been a while since I played with 3d fits. I enjoy the 2X the most. It's a very decent line mech with AC20 and a combination of ML's/SMRs and it does pack a punch. A split of 2 ballistic points between torso and arm just doesn't work in my head.

#24 Roosterfish

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 03:52 PM

The new Jester has put my Orion buying on hold for a bit. I'm gonna wait to see if they put the Jester on sale this coming up weekend.

After I get my Jester and master it I'll rebuild my space buck stash to start on the Orion.

#25 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 06 November 2013 - 04:06 PM

Right now cataph pulls ahead due to the orions stupid oversized CT, but depending on how the hitbox reworking goes later this month orion might be a better contender. Last match I played in my orion at the end it was me and a friendly locust left standing, 520dmg and two kills to my name with my mech mostly yellow and orange except for the ct, stripped and deep red.

#26 Tremendous Upside

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 09:40 AM

The biggest mistake people make comparing these two lies in assuming the Orion has 5 extra tons to work with. It really doesn't... If you're running a standard engine brawler, the difference in weight for the engines alone will eat the majority of that extra tonnage the Orion has. A standard 280 (71 kph for CTF) weighs 22 tons. A standard 300 (71 kph for Orion) weighs 25... That's 3 tons lost without having made a single change...

#27 Goregrimm

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 10:55 AM

Between the two I would say Cataphract. I have mastered them both.

I agree with anyone who also says Jager or Victor over both the the above mentioned mechs.

#28 Roosterfish

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:25 PM

I'm glad I went Cataphracts, the 3D alone is worth it. A 4X is a coffin for me but my God, the Dakka before I push up daisies. I can see where the 4X in a good group would be devastating but in pugs in can be a rough ride for me.

I'm looking forward to the Orion though. Been playing with builds for it on Smurphy and I'm liking what it can mount.

#29 Sky Ferrix

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostHelmstif, on 27 October 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:


(no sane person would use 2X)



I must be insane then. My 2X is quite a face-eater in brawls:

It mounts an AC20, 3 Med Las, 2 SRM-4's, FF armor, 16 Dbl Heat Sinks, and a STD 280 engine. (Over 71 KPH with speed tweak.)

It's got the maneuverability and speed to counter lights, and the armor and firepower to stand up to assaults.

#30 Cerberias

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 04:02 PM

Endo > FF in all situations, Foxx.

3D is the best heavy mech by far in the hands of a skilled pilot who can get the most out of their JumpJets. If you find that too difficult, Jagers have good high hardpoints - Victors are decent but they have fully arm mounted weapons which causes problems with convergence. The orion is just bad.

#31 Stormrane

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Posted 07 November 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostBanky, on 07 November 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

The biggest mistake people make comparing these two lies in assuming the Orion has 5 extra tons to work with. It really doesn't... If you're running a standard engine brawler, the difference in weight for the engines alone will eat the majority of that extra tonnage the Orion has. A standard 280 (71 kph for CTF) weighs 22 tons. A standard 300 (71 kph for Orion) weighs 25... That's 3 tons lost without having made a single change...



Running a standard engine in an Orion is doing yourself a disservice, you'll always get cored so the only real reason to use one would be an AC/20 or dual UAC5 setups. I run an XL300 in my protector gives me a decent weight saving with no loss in survivability, this might change with the new hitbox changes though.

#32 Tahribator

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 11:43 AM

As a brawler pilot who has all the Orions(including the Protector) elited and have been running them almost exclusively for the last 2 weeks; get yourself a Cataphract. You'll be much happier. I'm attached to Orion for nostalgic reasons and because I like to torture myself with mechs disliked by the community.

The worst problem with Orions is not their slightly oversized CT, but their sluggishness. It's twist speeds up to higher rated engines is absolutely absymal, it has very limited arm yaw range(20 degrees, same as the Cataph) even though it has perfectly articulated arms, acceleration/decceleration is bad, it's torso pitch is terrible and so on.

If you look at the hardpoints, it's an excellent brawler but the bad quirks PGI gave to this mech is undermining it's potential and forces it to be a ranged fighter.


View PostBanky, on 07 November 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

The biggest mistake people make comparing these two lies in assuming the Orion has 5 extra tons to work with. It really doesn't... If you're running a standard engine brawler, the difference in weight for the engines alone will eat the majority of that extra tonnage the Orion has. A standard 280 (71 kph for CTF) weighs 22 tons. A standard 300 (71 kph for Orion) weighs 25... That's 3 tons lost without having made a single change...


It also has more armor, further eating into the free tonnage. Usable tonnage doesn't scale proportionally with mech tonnage.

Edited by Tahribator, 09 November 2013 - 11:44 AM.


#33 Crashing

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 05:54 PM

I love my Cataphract, but the Orion holds a special place in my heart. Be forewarned however, if you want to brawl with your orion don't get an XL. I made this mistake, and ruined my V. For some reason I always lose a torso. Ya that could be pilot error though...

#34 Tremendous Upside

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 07:33 AM

View PostFoxx, on 07 November 2013 - 12:52 PM, said:


I must be insane then. My 2X is quite a face-eater in brawls:

It mounts an AC20, 3 Med Las, 2 SRM-4's, FF armor, 16 Dbl Heat Sinks, and a STD 280 engine. (Over 71 KPH with speed tweak.)

It's got the maneuverability and speed to counter lights, and the armor and firepower to stand up to assaults.


That's actually one of the few builds that the Orion pulls off really well... I run my Protector with the same offensive loadout on a standard 320 (76kph) and 448 armor. The reason the Protector can pull it off is because it doesn't have hand actuators. That one extra critical slot over the 2X lets you equip that build with both ES and FF - at the expense of a few heat sinks. It's not great but certainly not bad either... It's not the mech for try hard mode - but it's fun and does well for me in casual matches.

#35 Alianton

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 03:47 AM

Looking at purely Stock builds, which are better choices for the orion and the cataphract? I really like the ON1-V stock (which when I have more cbills, i will replace the LRMs with another SRM...) but I hear the cataphract is pretty cool too.

What's a good build for a cataphract that would be decent at all ranges, and what's good for brawling?

I've sort of got This in mind (after I saved up) for the ON1-V,

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...602a8d9bd995946

What say y'all?

#36 Escef

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Posted 30 May 2014 - 06:30 AM

The 3D 'phract and the Ilya are probably the two best heavies right now. But I honestly prefer the Orions, they have more diverse hardpoints.

#37 Alianton

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 06:45 AM

What about this? It's got 4MLs, one AC/10 for a main weapon, the SRM6 and MLs for shortish range?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4b9bb72a77e65cd

It's got a bit more ammo for both the SRM and the AC, as well as more heat sinks so that I can fire the MLs more often.

The stock of ON1-K seems a Little worse than the ON1-V...

#38 Madwill

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 07:45 AM

View PostAlianton, on 31 May 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

What about this? It's got 4MLs, one AC/10 for a main weapon, the SRM6 and MLs for shortish range?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4b9bb72a77e65cd

It's got a bit more ammo for both the SRM and the AC, as well as more heat sinks so that I can fire the MLs more often.

The stock of ON1-K seems a Little worse than the ON1-V...



here, ON1-K i added endo and artemis

#39 Armored Yokai

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 08:12 AM

I'd take an orion because it's a good straightforward brawler or sniper a"Typical" pilot would take the phract

#40 Grayblue

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Posted 31 May 2014 - 04:00 PM

I fear receiving damage from Cataphracts.

I never felt particularly threatened by Orion, but they are hard to kill.





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