287 replies to this topic

[DEN_Ninja]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

So if it's totally fair and you can choose to not use it, what is the problem?

I think at this point they aren't even going to combat us with logic anymore Heffay. That or they never did.

All their hard core analysis of why 3PV is overly advantageous has been negated by previous arguments and their own solid 'evidence' is a video of a light medium poking people. Half the time the Cicada had issues even targeting a mech let alone shooting one. That is all chalked up to actual skill rather than 3PV.

[Gallowglas]

3PV is a total non-issue. I've never seen it be a deciding factor in a game, nor do I see many people even using it. Raging against how much of an advantage it gives really seems like tilting at windmills at this point. It's absolutely a complete disadvantage to use it in most situations.

[Heffay]

SeanG, on 28 October 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

Just stop already. Everyone is so cemented in there views that this conversation isn't going anywhere anymore. So please just stop

Like I said, people are hating 3PV out of momentum, not for any legitimate reason. They could just sit back and say "yeah, it really is NBD", but then they'd have to admit they were *gasp* wrong, and you can't be doing that on the webernets.

[Ghogiel]

The whole reason why they removed it from 12 mans is because most players agreed it can and would be abused.

[Heffay]

Ghogiel, on 28 October 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

The whole reason why they removed it from 12 mans is because most players agreed it can and would be abused.

No, that is not right. Most players said they would be ok with 1PV only in 12 mans as a compromise to not splitting the queues.

[Ghogiel]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

No, that is not right. Most players said they would be ok with 1PV only in 12 mans as a compromise to not splitting the queues.

And that has nothing to do with what I just said.

Judging from the responses in the bazillion threads on 3pv, many players wanted a 1pv queue, there are only 2 reasons why they wanted that.

[Heffay]

Ghogiel, on 28 October 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

And that has nothing to do with what I just said.

Judging from the responses in the bazillion threads on 3pv, many players wanted a 1pv queue, there are only 2 reasons why they wanted that.

So what? The reasons they gave for wanting it removed were bull anyway. There is no game-affecting advantage to 3PV despite how much people whine about it.

Everyone has realized 3PV is no big deal and moved on. Well, almost everyone. Some people just can't let go, but that's not PGI's problem.

[Kyrie]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

You can get that info without 3PV and with zero risk, so where's the advantage? And you can get the info while being able to target for LRMs with less likelihood that you get spotted.

So all this mock outrage about 3PV is silly. It's just arguing out of momentum instead of arguing a legitimate issue.



I guarantee that the number is non-zero.

I respectfully disagree. There are many situations in which using 3PV can gain valuable intel while behind complete cover; this is the chief complaint against it.

[KovarD]

Kyrie, on 28 October 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

I respectfully disagree. There are many situations in which using 3PV can gain valuable intel while behind complete cover; this is the chief complaint against it.

This advantage is obvious, logic and evident.

There is people that love the game and no matter what the evidence is in front of their eyes, they won't believe on this facts.

[zolop]

The players that wanted to remain competitive only in 1PV mode (Hardcore mode it was called) so that they were not FORCED to use it to remain competitive in all the matches. Now to remain competitive in MWO you have to use 3pv, there is no risk versus reward, role of a light mech is dimished when all a atlas mech has to do is peer over a small hill not exposed using his 3rd person invincible camera.

Again the added 3pv mode forces competitive players to use it to remain competitive, as during the closed beta and most part of the open beta it remained completely designed as a first person simulation of a mechwarrior. From games main page "A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3050 AD"

http://mwomercs.com/game

PGI is completely blindsided by not just seperating (1PV / 3PV) the ques, but I came back to see if I can get some competitive games going 12mans, please just at least let them keep that promise.. :/.

Edited by zolop, 28 October 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[pbiggz]

zolop, on 28 October 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

The players that wanted to remain competitive only in 1PV mode (Hardcore mode it was called) so that they were not FORCED to use it to remain competitive in all the matches. Now to remain competitive in MWO you have to use 3pv, there is no risk versus reward, role of a light mech is dimished when all a atlas mech has to do is peer over a small hill not exposed using his 3rd person invincible camera.

Again the added 3pv mode forces competitive players to use it to remain competitive, as during the closed beta and most part of the open beta it remained completely designed as a first person simulation of a mechwarrior. From games main page "A tactical BattleMech simulation set in 3050 AD"

http://mwomercs.com/game

PGI is completely blindsided by not just seperating (1PV / 3PV) the ques, but I came back to see if I can get some competitive games going 12mans, please just at least let them keep that promise.. :/.

PUG dropping has NEVER been competitive.

Noone is forcing you to use 3pv to "remain competitive". You do not need to use it, I never use it, i find it useless and it makes it harder to land actual shots, especially when the reticule sinks into your back and you cant even see what you are shooting at.

Seperating 1pv/3pv will artificially fracture the player base and we dont have the numbers to do that.

The roles of light mechs have not been cheapened at all, nor have they been given any advantage.

It was said before and I will say it again, stop pretending to be mad and riding this wave of fake hate.

It's absurd and a waste of time. You waste all your time getting people to pay attention to you while you imagine all these imaginary slanders that pgi has done to you and get all in a huff because the game they are making doesn't fit YOUR OWN PERSONAL views but instead caters to the largest player base, obviously.

Edited by pbiggz, 28 October 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[Deathlike]

I'd like an honest answer to this question.

Although it is completely unlikely that PGI would do this, would there be enough 3PV supporters to argue against removing 3PV altogether compared to those that argued against 3PV in the first place?

I simply don't think there's enough of you to be honest.

What bothers me a lot more is that those who are pro-3PV don't seem to want to have any discussion into addressing issues that 1PV users have with the mode (mostly, the seeing over hills/sides aspect). I've like seen one person at least try to make a fair argument to alter how 3PV is accessible... that's few an far in between.

It's kinda like those arguing for keeping the PPC meta... that fact that there is a problem and just "pray" it will go away (by not speaking of it) won't happen on its own.

Edit:
Also, the poll sucks in its options.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 October 2013 - 05:00 PM.

[Hexenhammer]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

It also has a number of huge disadvantages. How many snipers have been killed because they were in 3PV when a light snuck up behind them?

Roland, on 28 October 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I'm guessing zero.

Never tried sniping from 3pv because the reticle jumps around to much. Besides. Why be in 3pv and waist a module on seismic?


Speaking of snipers. I did get a confirmed headshot kill on a gausskat with my spider. He was aiming and I blew his brains out with MGs.

[aniviron]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

You can get that info without 3PV and with zero risk, so where's the advantage? And you can get the info while being able to target for LRMs with less likelihood that you get spotted.

So all this mock outrage about 3PV is silly. It's just arguing out of momentum instead of arguing a legitimate issue.

I just want to know how you think exposing your mech to peer over a hill and find out how many people are over there is less of a risk and using 3pv to look over that hill. Yes, you are at a disadvantage if the enemy sees your drone, and they probably will since it's bright red. But the alternative to seeing your drone is seeing your mech. Even assuming that the other team is full of bad shots and they don't peg you with some PPC or AC5 when you're getting a count of their number, they still know what mech you're driving and where you're headed. If they see the 3pv drone, all they know is that there is a mech over there. They don't know what it is, where it's headed, and they get no chance to return fire. There is no question that 3pv is flat out better for scouting.

[Deathlike]

aniviron, on 28 October 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I just want to know how you think exposing your mech to peer over a hill and find out how many people are over there is less of a risk and using 3pv to look over that hill. Yes, you are at a disadvantage if the enemy sees your drone, and they probably will since it's bright red. But the alternative to seeing your drone is seeing your mech. Even assuming that the other team is full of bad shots and they don't peg you with some PPC or AC5 when you're getting a count of their number, they still know what mech you're driving and where you're headed. If they see the 3pv drone, all they know is that there is a mech over there. They don't know what it is, where it's headed, and they get no chance to return fire. There is no question that 3pv is flat out better for scouting.

It's actually worse and ironic that this game doesn't reward traditional scouting.

[Heffay]

aniviron, on 28 October 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

I just want to know how you think exposing your mech to peer over a hill and find out how many people are over there is less of a risk and using 3pv to look over that hill. Yes, you are at a disadvantage if the enemy sees your drone, and they probably will since it's bright red. But the alternative to seeing your drone is seeing your mech. Even assuming that the other team is full of bad shots and they don't peg you with some PPC or AC5 when you're getting a count of their number, they still know what mech you're driving and where you're headed. If they see the 3pv drone, all they know is that there is a mech over there. They don't know what it is, where it's headed, and they get no chance to return fire. There is no question that 3pv is flat out better for scouting.

You can scout without being seen in 1PV. You can *never* scout and not be seen in 3PV.
If you're scouting in 3PV, you're going to get jumped by enemy lights and die a quick, horrible death.

[Deathlike]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

You can scout without being seen in 1PV.

That is wrong. When you can see your opponent, the opponent can see you IF AND ONLY IF he is staring back in your direction and actually notices you. If you can see him, he can see you. It's that simple in 1PV. It is also possible to be spotted by showing a part of your mech, but not be able to see your opponent.

Quote

If you're scouting in 3PV, you're going to get jumped by enemy lights and die a quick, horrible death.

That's even more wrong and doesn't ever happen. There is an increased battlefield awareness that is provided by 3PV. However, it doesn't translate into better fighting though, which is why switching back to 1PV is optimal for fighting.

Please try again.

Edited by Deathlike, 28 October 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[aniviron]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

You can scout without being seen in 1PV. You can *never* scout and not be seen in 3PV.
If you're scouting in 3PV, you're going to get jumped by enemy lights and die a quick, horrible death.

The only ways to scout and not be seen in 1pv are to be outside of sensor range, or use ECM; but not being seen is relative, as in order for you to have LOS on a target in 1pv, they necessarily also must have LOS on you. If they don't see a mech tromping around at 1km, then their vision is bad, and you can also count on them not seeing a target drone at that distance- so at the very worst, 3pv is identical to 1pv except for the fact that if they turn to see you, 3pv at least means you escape without being shot.

I'm also confused as to why you think popping into 3pv makes you more vulnerable to lights.

[Ghogiel]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 05:22 PM, said:

You can scout without being seen in 1PV. You can *never* scout and not be seen in 3PV.

This makes no sense. For the same reasons, you can go undetected doing both, if they aren't looking at your direction they won't see you. Except there is no risk of exposing yourself in the situations where 3pv is advantageous.

Quote

If you're scouting in 3PV, you're going to get jumped by enemy lights and die a quick, horrible death.

You are doing it wrong.

No one is running around in 3PV. It's use for like 5 secs to peep over terrain or objects without any risk of return fire.

And besides, no light really wants to rush in there find out how many mechs streak KTOs are sitting next to the guy peeping. They'd want some intel of their own first. Probably best not to expose themselves while gathering it too.

Edited by Ghogiel, 28 October 2013 - 11:09 PM.

[Wolfways]

Heffay, on 28 October 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

No, that is not right. Most players said they would be ok with 1PV only in 12 mans as a compromise to not splitting the queues.

Actually, many of the players who voted on Bryan's poll didn't realise what they voted yes for. The poll was worded so that it looked like a yes vote was for 1pv-only in 12man, but further down the post it mentioned removing the "hardcore" queue.
Players who later read the thread realised their mistake and removed their votes, before the poll was quickly closed in less than 24 hours.

The whole 3pv fiasco only showed me that PGI have no interest in creating a great Mechwarrior game for BT/MW fans and are just in it for the cash. Also, it showed that they cannot be trusted to keep promises.

When 3pv first came out i used to see what it was like. It allowed me to avoid taking damage by not walking in front of enemy mechs, and i also got a few easy kills from it.
Now i never use it because it feels like cheating and it breaks immersion. If i see someone else using it i never think "It's a drone". I think "I hope that isn't a noob on my team who's going to try to fight in 3pv".