19 replies to this topic

[Seven Strikes]

Would anyone be able to offer me guidance on how to stay alive in the world of 12v12?

I used to play for hours and hours a week during the 8v8 'days of olde' and as a Jenner I could make a pretty significant impact.

I've recently returned to the game and to my dismay I have been getting steam-rolled for hours and hours with the 12v12 setup..

It seems like I cannot move anywhere in a light without either being hit by teammates or getting alpha'd by 2-3 enemy mechs.

I went from being a dangerous force to merely being a few seconds of target practice for most mechs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Tevesh]

Well, there are several factors that have changed that affect the survivability of light 'mechs.

The most significant factor is the much improved hit detection. This means that people are more likely to damage you when they shoot at you. The only defense against this is to get shot at less. What I mean by that is to be somewhat more cautious, especially early in a match.

Gone are the days when a light mech could charge through the entire enemy team and come out the other side almost unscathed. This doesn't mean hide behind your teammates or stick to the edges of the map. You can still scout but you need to keep your distance and use cover as much as possible to stay out of sight. Early in the match you don't need to get locks for LRMs or gather info on enemy loadouts. You just need to find the enemy and report to your team where they are.

Once the enemy has been found and engaged by your team you have 2 choices. You can either skirt the edges of the fight as a skirmisher and chase down heaviliy damaged enemies that are trying to withdraw and help keep enemy lights from doing the same to your team. Or you can go for the enemy base to try to pull some of them off the front lines. Either way though you want to break away from fights as soon as you are starting to draw fire from multiple 'mechs. Use your speed and maneuverability to get out of danger.

The above tactics work best on assault mode. In a conquest match things change.

Your main focus early in a conquest match should be capturing the bases. Your secondary job is to take out the other team's light mechs. Once the enemy lights are eliminated then you can either cap bases or engage in fighting in a similar manner to what I described for assault mode.

Either way, they key to survival is to try to make sure you're not the focus of attention. Knowing the maps and having an escape route in mind helps a lot as well.

I'm not saying this is the only way to play a light, or even the best way. This is just some information that has worked for me and hopefully helps you to survive more often. Good luck out there.

[Durant Carlyle]

I agree with Tevesh's post. There are many more weapons on the field than there were, and they all have a better shot at killing you.

I find that an AMS helps a lot, as the new LRM trajectory means that if I try to out-run LRMs they will leg me fairly often. Yep, you can get legged by LRMs now.

Also, you are now in one of the slowest lights, as the Jenner didn't get a max engine boost like most of the other lights.

Time your attack passes to coincide with those of your larger buddies, and you will have more success.

[Cactus In The Rear]

Pay more attention to staying behind the enemy and attacking when your team does. The reason is that now there are more mechs to focus on you,and so you get killed quickly. I have been running a 6 SPL jenner doing over 500 damage in a decent game (one where my team isn't instantly rolled). The biggest difference between 8v8 and 12v12 for lights is that they are more team-dependant.

PS. wolfpacking kills enemy lights every time

[Buckminster]

For me, as a Locust pilot, it's simple. If you see more enemy mechs than friendly mechs, run away. I've found the key to light survival is to not be noticed. Sure, in a 1 on 1 situation you can always outmaneuver your target, but once you're outnumbered it's easy for at least one of those mechs to focus on you and take you out.

[HlynkaCG]

Buckminster, on 29 October 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

For me, as a Locust pilot, it's simple. If you see more enemy mechs than friendly mechs, run away. I've found the key to light survival is to not be noticed. Sure, in a 1 on 1 situation you can always outmaneuver your target, but once you're outnumbered it's easy for at least one of those mechs to focus on you and take you out.

What he said ^

My LCT-1V "Sting" is often able to pass unnoticed in the presence of friendly mechs that at first glance are far more threatening than I am. I have found a great deal of success circling at the edges of an engagement and shooting enemies in the back when they are not looking at me.

[PEEFsmash]

http://mwomercs.com/...nue-to-improve/
This guide should have alot of what you are looking for. The comments are also full of my advice about how to play lights in 12 mans. The last couple pages in particular should be helpful.

[Drunk Canuck]

Having sufficient modules and environment awareness makes playing a light fairly easy. The biggest issue is yes, the fact that you can be killed rather quickly in most Light chassis. The best tip I can give for that is to keep moving, never run in a line, always strafe and use speed to your advantage. Lights are generally not expected to kill heavy Mech's, just eliminate other Light pilots and scout for heavies. Build wise, there are lots of different ways to play a Light, if a Jenner is your preference, there are a few good solid builds that you can use to be a good Light killer, and you can still help mop up when the lights are all dead. Here are a couple of builds I alternate in comp matches depending on the rules and teams I am playing against:

JR7-D - XL 265, 11 DHS, 2/5 JJ's, 2 Med Laser, 2 Med Pulse, 2 Streak 2's (2 tons of ammo), 238/238 Ferro Armor, Endo chassis and Artemis Guidance. Ideal for light killing.
JR7-F - XL 300 2 Med Pulse, 3 Small Pulse, 2/5 JJ, 232/238 Ferro Armor, Endo chassis, 13 DHS (Modest light and medium killer)
JR7-F - XL 300, 6 Med Lasers (runs hot, good for working mediums and heavies), same as previous build aside from 14 DHS
JR7-F XL 300 5 Small Pulse (chain fire mode), either 2/5 JJ and 15 DHS, 3/5 JJ + AMS w/ 1 ton of ammo or 4/5 JJ and 14 DHS, this is the ideal light killer loadout, especially with 15 DHS, you can just keep chain firing since the cooldown rate on Small Pulse lasers allows you to constantly keep firing. You can leg lights like crazy with this build.

I generally prefer Light Mech's for certain aspects of the game, however yes they do blow up easily and it takes practice to really get good at them.

[FSxHunter]

Lights are a different game now with better HSR. One suggestion I would have is to prioritize your goals in the match. For me my objectives are as follows:

1. Hunt down enemy light mechs

2. Position yourself to cause the enemy to spread out or chase you. Typically this can be done with a base tap, or just being on their flank, and waiting for an opportunity to isolate or finish off a heavily damaged opponent.

3. Be aware of your fragility and try not to be in a position where you exposed to enemy fire for prolonged periods of time.

[Syllogy]

85% of Peef's matches end like this:

Edited by Syllogy, 31 October 2013 - 06:58 AM.

[Kaeseblock]

Some guidelines that improved the survivability of my Locusts in close combat (aawww, that mech is so squishy ^^)

• only fight when there is cover nearby (e.g. a big rock / house / ridge)
  
• when there is cover, use it whenever it's possible to hide from your enemies view (and to stay out of their line of fire)
  
• never stop running, if you fight a single mech and you know there are no other enemies nearby, you may ignore this rule, just move behind the enemy mech and troll him to death
  
• never enter the fight head on through the front line (if there is one), always dive in from behind the enemies (if that's impossible, use an angle in the 180° sector behind your enemies), if the enemy is distracted by some of your allies attacking him, ignore this rule
  
• attack like this: leave cover at full speed, shoot while running, run behind the best available cover, leave cover at a different location, back to shooting, repeat
  
• don't get into a predictable rythm of vanishing and reappearing in front of your enemies, always be unpredictable!
  
• don't start circling a mech, if there are other enemies nearby, they will probably kill you

Edited by Kaeseblock, 30 October 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[Duellica]

I stay back and "Snipe" woth a single ERPPC and spot while providing ECM (Spider), then move in for some kills or CB's.

I do not bother running ahead of the pack to scout since I dont like to die for PUGs so this game style fits me.

[YueFei]

If you turn a corner and someone heavier is looking at you, immediately break and run. You don't wanna stick around to see if that guy knows how to aim. Cuz when you're playing against decent players, the answer to that question more often than not is "yes", but by the time you find out you are nearly dead or you are indeed dead.

[Wispsy]

Drunk Canuck, on 29 October 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Having sufficient modules and environment awareness makes playing a light fairly easy. The biggest issue is yes, the fact that you can be killed rather quickly in most Light chassis. The best tip I can give for that is to keep moving, never run in a line, always strafe and use speed to your advantage. Lights are generally not expected to kill heavy Mech's, just eliminate other Light pilots and scout for heavies. Build wise, there are lots of different ways to play a Light, if a Jenner is your preference, there are a few good solid builds that you can use to be a good Light killer, and you can still help mop up when the lights are all dead. Here are a couple of builds I alternate in comp matches depending on the rules and teams I am playing against:

JR7-D - XL 265, 11 DHS, 2/5 JJ's, 2 Med Laser, 2 Med Pulse, 2 Streak 2's (2 tons of ammo), 238/238 Ferro Armor, Endo chassis and Artemis Guidance. Ideal for light killing.
JR7-F - XL 300 2 Med Pulse, 3 Small Pulse, 2/5 JJ, 232/238 Ferro Armor, Endo chassis, 13 DHS (Modest light and medium killer)
JR7-F - XL 300, 6 Med Lasers (runs hot, good for working mediums and heavies), same as previous build aside from 14 DHS
JR7-F XL 300 5 Small Pulse (chain fire mode), either 2/5 JJ and 15 DHS, 3/5 JJ + AMS w/ 1 ton of ammo or 4/5 JJ and 14 DHS, this is the ideal light killer loadout, especially with 15 DHS, you can just keep chain firing since the cooldown rate on Small Pulse lasers allows you to constantly keep firing. You can leg lights like crazy with this build.

I generally prefer Light Mech's for certain aspects of the game, however yes they do blow up easily and it takes practice to really get good at them.

Best tip I can give you in this thread is do not use this guys builds.

[-Muta-]

Drunk Canuck, on 29 October 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

Having sufficient modules and environment awareness makes playing a light fairly easy. The biggest issue is yes, the fact that you can be killed rather quickly in most Light chassis. The best tip I can give for that is to keep moving, never run in a line, always strafe and use speed to your advantage. Lights are generally not expected to kill heavy Mech's, just eliminate other Light pilots and scout for heavies. Build wise, there are lots of different ways to play a Light, if a Jenner is your preference, there are a few good solid builds that you can use to be a good Light killer, and you can still help mop up when the lights are all dead. Here are a couple of builds I alternate in comp matches depending on the rules and teams I am playing against:

JR7-D - XL 265, 11 DHS, 2/5 JJ's, 2 Med Laser, 2 Med Pulse, 2 Streak 2's (2 tons of ammo), 238/238 Ferro Armor, Endo chassis and Artemis Guidance. Ideal for light killing.
JR7-F - XL 300 2 Med Pulse, 3 Small Pulse, 2/5 JJ, 232/238 Ferro Armor, Endo chassis, 13 DHS (Modest light and medium killer)
JR7-F - XL 300, 6 Med Lasers (runs hot, good for working mediums and heavies), same as previous build aside from 14 DHS
JR7-F XL 300 5 Small Pulse (chain fire mode), either 2/5 JJ and 15 DHS, 3/5 JJ + AMS w/ 1 ton of ammo or 4/5 JJ and 14 DHS, this is the ideal light killer loadout, especially with 15 DHS, you can just keep chain firing since the cooldown rate on Small Pulse lasers allows you to constantly keep firing. You can leg lights like crazy with this build.

I generally prefer Light Mech's for certain aspects of the game, however yes they do blow up easily and it takes practice to really get good at them.

Too hot for my taste

[TercieI]

Wispsy, on 10 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Best tip I can give you in this thread is do not use this guys builds.

What's your JR7-F build, Wispsy? (if you're willing to share)

Edited by Terciel1976, 10 November 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Doc Andrews]

Right, there's some very good advice from certain people... then again, there's some OMG WHY-awful advice from others.

What you have to remember is: Anyone can have one good game. The guy you know from up the road that says: "Oh Locusts are awesome I got 6 kills and 800 damage and blah blah blah.." He might not be lying. But he doesn't do it every time, and his averages are much, much lower that that. Not to mention, if individual performance doesn't result in a win, it's only good for stats, it's {Scrap} once CW comes out (or anything that relies on actually winning).

So. I'm going to break down why, over the last 3 months, lights have become brittle, and what you can do about it:

1) Hit detection improved: Yes it did. BUT there are still holes (pardon the pun). State rewind is still iffy against mechs at high speeds above 300m. There's still the potential for some cheese here (see below in the strategy section).

2) Ballistics and Streaks are anti-light: Of all the things to get nerfed, two things that most impact Lights did NOT: AC's and Streaks. If everything else gets weaker, by comparison these (plus LRM's) get stronger by simply staying the same. So what we see out there are AC2's, 20's, and Streaks ready to chew up everything that moves... and sadly, lights are really good targets for these. Combine this with the fact that BAP is so damned good (anti ECM, +targeting range, +targeting info speed boost, +,+,+...) and lights are in trouble.

3) The introduction of Locusts and NO significant ECM in the new pack: What does this mean? People are MORE likely to use streaks, as the new pack has no ECM to screw them up, and people are playing the new pack mechs like there's no tomorrow. Those poor, poor Locusts.

4) The REAL advantage of lower tonnage is CW, but that got pushed back: I've Mastered every weight class, and at least a couple mech types out of each, for CW. But that hasn't happened yet. So other than mobility, what's the point of taking lights? You're consciously under-tonning yourself. Well the answer to that is below, but in a lot of scenarios, the answer is: None. Gulp!


So given the above, how do you survive, and how do you make a difference?

A) If you do decide to go classic short range, plan to cap with other lights: Short range against non-isolated mechs doesn't work anymore. In groups of non noobs, you'll get slaughtered. There's no run-through-and-giggle any more, you will get tagged or slagged. Instead, get a Cap Accelerator on, isolate your prey with strategic capping with your fellow lights. The nature of speeds in this game means they'll likely RTB on by one, ripe for slaughter. And remember, you can't have 'slaughter' without 'laughter'.

If you want maximum solo survivability, ERLL/ERPPC and Advanced Zoom: Advanced Zoom is so... SO much better now. Insanely so. The ability to sprint along at 150+ and nail your ER-PPC shots every. Single. Time. Alternatively, one or two ER-LL's from a very high point on the map can ruin days. That's some annoying stuff! Yes, these weapons have a lower DPS than medium lasers, but you know what, you're a DoT. Over time, it racks up. From behind, it matters more. If they stand still, you pick your location. And you can often lead enemy lights back to your main group for a crunchy ambush when they go after you.

C) Leverage the game modes: Remember the entire point of the game mode you're playing. A group of 3 or 4 good, sneaky lights can end a game of Assault in short order. Don't let cries of 'Capwarrior' slow you down; if the idiots don't know how to scout, cover zones, and defend bases, they deserve the loss. Remember the Cap Accelerator from above, right? Good. If you want to go hard core on this, turn off Assault as a game mode when you're solo or in pairs and scramble for 750 instead.

D) Torso twist: If you didn't learn the skill yet, and you're facing lasers, learn it now. You want to spread those lasers across your body, you want to shield red zones from the bulk of the enemy force as you get more distance. Learn to torso twist effectively.

E) Always lock, always look: I've observed more light pilots that don't lock their damned targets than I care to remember. And then they find themselves dancing with an AC/20. To know your enemy is to beat your enemy... or something. At least avoid the damn AC/20's!


I hope this helps. It might not be what you want to hear. But it needs to be said.

[Wispsy]

Terciel1976, on 10 November 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

What's your JR7-F build, Wispsy? (if you're willing to share)

For my Jenner F I use 6medlas and ams, xl295, 215 armour, endo/ferro, hs/jjs as many as possible.

On hot maps I often only fire 4 lasers (second group) if I am in some long protracted light duel with multiple people. The ams is somewhat necessary right now and will help your team more then you know as well as yourself from ssrms. The 6 laser alpha is the best, gives you range and allows you to dump a load of damage and get out quick. Especially useful for finishing off hurt enemies who are thinking of retreating to the back line to keep pelting your team.

Never use pulse lasers right now.

[TercieI]

Wispsy, on 10 November 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

For my Jenner F I use 6medlas and ams, xl295, 215 armour, endo/ferro, hs/jjs as many as possible.

On hot maps I often only fire 4 lasers (second group) if I am in some long protracted light duel with multiple people. The ams is somewhat necessary right now and will help your team more then you know as well as yourself from ssrms. The 6 laser alpha is the best, gives you range and allows you to dump a load of damage and get out quick. Especially useful for finishing off hurt enemies who are thinking of retreating to the back line to keep pelting your team.

Never use pulse lasers right now.

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[-Muta-]

Brawl when necessary.... Doing this will help you to deal more damage and survive most of the times. So remaining unnoticed as much as possible is a key factor.

Try to poke those mechs that are more interested or worried about other mechs than you.

Remember an outstanding light pilot is not the one that plays ***super-brawler-RAMBO MODE [ON]***(because they usually die fast.

An outstanding pilot, knows how to brawl but does it when necessary, is the one that plays smart, assist the team and survives to tell the story to his grand children.



Some examples of guys that I have dropped with are: Icebank, PEEF, Wispsy.


The only 1 light that I play differently is my COM-2D (one of my PUG mechs). This one I use it to protect my team from LRM boats and other light mechs.

I use it with ECM, x3 2SSRM, 400 ammo and 139 kph is fast enough for me.

And please take note of this... You can be a super skilled light pilot but team work is what really matters.