27 replies to this topic

[DI3T3R]

The way I see it, there are two basic conditions that should be met, when Clanmechs are rolled out: The initial load should contain some general Mechs, but at the same time each Clan should be unique.

I see two solutions for this:

1st option:
A package with 4 general Mechs + 4 Clan-specific booster-packs. (Idea originally not mine.)

Example:
general package: Adder + Nova + Mad Dog + Direwolf
CJF-booster: Kit Fox + Summoner + CJF-camo
CW-booster: Ice Ferret + Timber Wolf + CW-camo
CGB-booster: Fire Moth + Executioner + CGB-camo
CSJ-booster: Mist Lynx + Stormcrow + CSJ-camo

upsides for players:
- viable Mechs with the general package

upsides for PGI:
- if players want all the cool Mechs right form the start, they will have to buy at least one booster on top of the general package
- they can start with 4 Mechs

downsides for players:
- they have to choose carefully

downsides for PGI:
- they have to get ready and balance 4 Mechs right from the start and 8 additional Mechs in short order


2nd option:
Every Clan gets its own package.

Example:
CJF-package: FireMoth + Nova + Summoner + Direwolf + CJF-camo
CW-package: Fire Moth + Ice Ferret + Timber Wolf + Direwolf + CW-camo
CGB-package: Fire Moth + Nova + Timber Wolf + Executioner + CGB-camo
CSJ-package: Mist Lynx + Nova + Timber Wolf + Direwolf + CSJ-camo

upsides for players:
- good Mechs, general and clan-specific

upsides for PGI:
- unique=expensive

downsides for players:
- less Mechs at beginning
- they have to choose carefully

downsides for PGI:
- They have to get 8 Mechs up&running right from the start.




Any other suggestions?

[CyclonerM]

The 2nd one is my favourite.

my ideas are:

CJF: Kit fox, Nova, Summoner, Dire Wolf + CJF camos
CW: Kit Fox, Ice Ferret, Timberwolf, Dire Wolf + CW camos
CGB: Firemoth, Nova, Timberwolf, Executioner + CGB camos
CSJ: Mist Lynx, Stormcrow, Mad Dog, Dire Wolf + CSJ camos.

[DI3T3R]

That's 11 Mechs PGI would have to prepare upfront for the Clan-launch. My suggestion only has 8.

[101011]

But...mah Kodiak! Why the Executioner and not the GB totem-mech?

[DI3T3R]

101011, on 31 October 2013 - 03:37 AM, said:

But...mah Kodiak! Why the Executioner and not the GB totem-mech?

Hey hey, little buddy. Why the sad face? I just thought Omnimechs would be first because PGI does the Clanmech-balancing with an early Timber Wolf-design. You can have a Kodiak when they introduce melee, I promise. Now who's a big boy? You're a big boy!

[101011]

DI3T3R, on 31 October 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

Hey hey, little buddy. Why the sad face? I just thought Omnimechs would be first because PGI does the Clanmech-balancing with an early Timber Wolf-design. You can have a Kodiak when they introduce melee, I promise. Now who's a big boy? You're a big boy!

The Kodiak doesn't need melee, it's claws are for pure decoration. While I suppose that you could be correct in saying that Omni-mechs would probably be first, I still think that it would make more sense to use the available totem 'mechs.

[CoffiNail]

Executioner is the Omni totem. The Kodiak and Executioner were originally attempted to be one chassis, but CGB scientist caste could not get it to all work how they wanted, and it became two chassis.

Executioner IS the CGB Mech... Not the Kodiak, like most would think. Kodiak for the most is a secondary line BattleMech used primarily by Garrison Trinary and such commanders. Kodiak does not have the CGB method of attacking, it is too slow. CGB likes to hit fast and hard. Executioner is our go to Assault for an OmniMech. Speed (MASC), Jump Jets and 2xERLL, 1xGauss and 2xMGUN. I have used 2xERLL and 1xGauss on a Heavy Metal for a few months. It may not have a powerful Alpha, but with advanced zoom and a steady hand, man you can rip spheroid surats a new one.

[Jaroth Corbett]

The Summoner, Hellbringer, Timberwolf & Dire Wolf have to be there. The Kit Fox & Ice Ferret can also be added but those first four are a must.

[Strum Wealh]

DI3T3R, on 30 October 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Any other suggestions?

Personally, I think a modified form of the second option might work.

• CGB Package: Dasher, Dragonfly, Vulture, Gladiator + CGB camo + CGB medallion or hologram
  
• CJF Package: Uller, Black Hawk, Loki, Thor + CJF camo + CJF medallion or hologram
  
• CSJ Package: Koshi, Ryoken, Masakari, Daishi + CSJ camo + CSJ medallion or hologram
  
• CW Package: Puma, Fenris, Mad Cat, Man O' War + CW camo + CW medallion or hologram

The above affiliations are mostly derived from "most commonly used by..." statements found in the original TRO 3050 (as opposed to TRO 3050R or TRO 3050U).
The exception to this is the Black Hawk; it is stated to be slightly more common among the Wolves than with the other Clans... but CJF needed a fourth, CW had an extra, and the Black Hawk was/will-be rather famously used by Diana Pryde, the Daughter of the Jade Phoenix.

Thoughts?

[DI3T3R]

A lot of flair.
The balance is ... debatable.
But the main obstacle I see is that PGI would have to get 16 Mechs ready at the same time.

[Strum Wealh]

DI3T3R, on 03 November 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

A lot of flair.
The balance is ... debatable.
But the main obstacle I see is that PGI would have to get 16 Mechs ready at the same time.

The medallion/hologram was a nod toward the proposed Loyalty Point system.

The 'Mech selection, as stated, is (with the exception of the Black Hawk) reflective of which 'Mechs are most strongly affiliated with each Clan.
A similar pattern would emerge if conceptually-similar packages were designed for the IS states - the AFFS as an organization tends to favor Mediums and lighter Heavies& Assaults, the DCMS as an organization largely eschews Mediums in favor of the three other weight classes, the FRR tends to use a mix of Lyran and Combine designs with little preference within or across weight classes, and so on.
It appears that, as a matter of doctrine or style or what-have-you, CGB seems to favor & emphasizes speed and mobility while CSJ seems to favor durability and raw firepower mobility, while both CJF and CW fall somewhere between (with the former leaning slightly toward the CSJ-style philosophy and the latter leaning more toward the CGB philosophy).

As far as having 'Mechs ready: there would/should be a fair amount of reusability among the existing 'Mechs for the original 16 OmniMechs (e.g. the Masakari & Daishi could use a lot of the same parts and animations (some of which could be reused from the Stalker), as could the Loki & Thor (which could draw on materials from the Thunderbolt) and the Uller & Dragonfly and the Dasher & Koshi (with the latter pairing reusing material from the Commando), and the Mad Cat could largely reuse parts and animations from the Catapult and Cataphract), so it should be a bit easier than making everything from scratch (assuming reuse of existing materials is what PGI opts to do, that is).
There is also the issue of timescale - if the Clans aren't anticipated to be available until after Community Warfare makes its debut, it could be a year or two (or more) before they're an issue - and completing 16 'Mechs in that time, considering the number already in-game at this point, is not inconceivable.

[CoffiNail]

The whole fun and point of the Clan chassis is that they do use often similar parts with some chassis.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

No Omni mechs, only IIc line mechs for a starter package. Then in a year or more let the Omni's in.

[CyclonerM]

Werewolf486, on 04 November 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

No Omni mechs, only IIc line mechs for a starter package. Then in a year or more let the Omni's in.

Why? They should have to make more 'Mechs and actually during the first part of the invasion all the Inner Sphere forces will see only front-line Omnimechs. I am all for some kind of honor progression to unlock and get Omnimechs btw.

[CoffiNail]

Only way I see this working is if they did it during the year pause while the clans elected a new khan... could be a way to start CW transition with the Clans.

[3rdworld]

There just needs to be a 3052 CJF pack

Fire Falcon
Black Lanner
Night Gyr
Turkina

[LoPanShui]

Dude! The hell? Where's DIAMOND SHARK! (Best clan is best)

[DI3T3R]

LoPanShui, on 04 November 2013 - 12:32 PM, said:

Dude! The hell? Where's DIAMOND SHARK! (Best clan is best)

They have to share the table in the back of the restaurant, near the toilets, together with the Steel Vipers and the Nova Cats.

(To be fair, I played Clan Steel Viper in a campaign and I liked their Mechs.)

[Zerberus]

DI3T3R, on 30 October 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

upsides for players:
- good Mechs, general and clan-specific

And this is where we disagree....

From: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Daishi

"Beyond the limited manufacture of the Dire Wolf on Outreach, all Dire Wolves outside of Clans Smoke Jaguar and Wolf (or the Wolf's Dragoons) are either gifts, isorla, or were acquired through trade.^[2]"

So how exactly is giving every clanner in the pentagon worlds a Dire Wolf somehow clan specific?

The exact same applies to even greater extent to the even more iconic Timber Wolf.

If we stick to canon, there are actually surprisingly few mechs shared by all the clans, just as it is in the Inner Sphere.

But thst will not suffice for the casual Aidan Pryde wannabe fron CJF (no insult to the falcons intended, but if some is taken this Wolf won`t be mad about it ) that wants his Dire and Timber Wolves because he never liked the summoner or executioner. He doesn`'t care that he shouldn`t "really" be allowed to drive either one unless he captured it himself.

Clan pack will probably be the same 4 pack system we already have, maybe with an option to choose a clan and get the camo for it, but I wouldn`t expect much more, both for cost and time reasons. That pack will probably look something like "Adder, Nova, Summoner, Dire Wolf", though I wouldn`t be surprised to see the Summoner replaced with a Timber Wolf and given to us a few weeks later as the Aidan Pryde Hero Summoner (that actually makes a surprising amount of sense)

Edited by Zerberus, 05 November 2013 - 02:03 AM.

[Deathz Jester]

I'd rather see them put in some lesser known Clan mechs while still keeping to the timeline restrictions. Yes the Timberwolf is all shiny and new, but I wouldn't mind seeing a Woodsman first. Alot of the ones that didn't make it into the games before or didn't get enough attention. They'd be insane to not add the "mainstream" mechs from the clans but I'd rather see the older ones make it in and the "mainstream". I enjoy a Mad Dog or a Timberwolf, but I'd be more impressed by seeing a mech I've never seen in the games before.


Some other Clan mechs [before & around 3050ish]

• Piranha
  
• Orion IIC [could be redundant, but its a redesign]
  
• Blood Kite
  
• Urban Mech IIC [could be redundant, but its a redesign]
  
• Turkina [3052]
  
• Black Lanner [3052]
  
• Kodiak
  
• Night Gyr
  
• Annihlator [for giggles]
  
• Huntsman [minus the AP pods]
  
• Grizzly
  
• Bowman [minus the AP pods, and Arrow IV would need put in ]
  
• Stone Rhino
  
• Commando IIC [could be redundant, but its a redesign]
  
• Jenner IIC [could be redundant, but its a redesign]
  
• Super Nova

And you could throw in the Mercury II, Stag, & Pulverizer from Clan Wolverine i guess.



Oddly though some of them, especially the Annihlator would have some odd criticial slot issues, its got 4 LBX 10s lol