41 replies to this topic

[AC]

FinsT, on 30 October 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Disagree. 40 heat per alpha is totally doable, and Stalker can load up LOTS of heatsinks to cool down quite really fast even from nearly full. They would still be around, if not for the fact that firing 4 PPCs is not 40, but 73.6 heat nowadays.

Mucho same for highlanders, who can just use AC10 instead of Gauss is they don't like charge-up system (alas for poptarts, charging up is not a big problem - they know the moment they gonna fire anyways - shortly after turning of 'em jets, eh).

The 6PPC stalker wasn't that feasible back in the day, it was just a novelty. 4PPC stalker with the new heat limits is doable too, but again would be like the 6PPC stalker was back in the day.... more of a novelty. If the 4PPC stalker was such an OP build, then why don't we seem them dominating? It is not hard to chainfire two groups of two PPC's.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

It is possible that you are experiencing a bug.
If I recall the cooldown on AC2 is set to .52 seconds. The Ghost Heat Tax applies when more than 3 weapons are fired within .50 seconds.

However if you have fast fire which reduces your cooldown by 5%, you AC2 cooldown is now 49.5 seconds, which means all 3 shots are generating the Ghost Heat Tax which equates to .81 heat per firing cycle (which is just under 2 per second).

But even with that, you should be able for more than 3 times (1.5) before shutdown.

[Vodrin Thales]

Lil Cthulhu, on 30 October 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

The only advantage to chain fire ever was a slightly more constant rock on the target at the price of very slightly reduced DPS. Group fire has always done better damage than the sandblaster macro.

[Mcgral18]

Vodrin Thales, on 31 October 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

The only advantage to chain fire ever was a slightly more constant rock on the target at the price of very slightly reduced DPS. Group fire has always done better damage than the sandblaster macro.

But....the mighty symphony of dakka makes them scared!

I don't understand why people thought it was OP...it did less damage when you started twisting.

[Amsro]

mike29tw, on 31 October 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

4PPCs stalker is as much doable as 6PPCs stalker before PPC nerf. 40 heat per alpha vs. 42 heat per alpha, and I haven't taken 90m hard min-range and slower projectile into consideration.

The funny part was 6PPC stalkers sucked and got smashed, they were never a problem... sooo.... 4PPC's now would be in the same boat if Ghost Heat wasn't trolling.

It would be a hot as hell build that would usually get smashed.

Face it Ghost Heat doesn't help anything, it never did and never will.

[Umbra8]

The problem they're trying to address with ghost heat would have been better addressed by setting the heat ceiling at 30... and leaving it there. Don't allow heat sinks to raise your ceiling, just improve dissipation. The lower your ceiling is the more important sustained damage becomes over high alphas. 4 PPC stalkers become much more challenging if you have to worry about a shutdown the second time you pull the trigger on your paired weapons. If the ceiling is too punishing you can allow heat sinks to modify it by a nominal amount, say 0.5 per sink with your base 10 sinks bringing you up to 30 and any extra's after pushing the ceiling by 0.5 each. It would also give single heat sinks an actual use as you can stack more of them for a higher ceiling but with a higher cost in tonnage to equal the same dissipation you'd get from doubles.

My $0.02

Edited by Umbra8, 31 October 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[ColonelMetus]

i noticed the bug happens when i group fire more than on AC 20

[RandomLurker]

Troll

http://mwomercs.com/...h-medium-laser/

[Mercules]

ColonelMetus, on 05 November 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

i noticed the bug happens when i group fire more than on AC 20

Working as intended. 2 AC/20s = Ghost Heat.

[SpiralRazor]

boomshekah, on 30 October 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Yes, please!
Let´s bring back the 4 PPC Stalker and the 3 PPC+Ballisitc poptart Highlander and the Boomjaeger...and get blasted in one shot! The noobs are gonna love it!

You mean like yourself??

[The Justicar]

Logical people: Weapon system unable to be chain-fired because of a ********, convoluted mechanic designed to encourage chain-firing instead of alpha striking.

PGI: Working as intended.

Edited by The Justicar, 05 November 2013 - 09:23 PM.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Quote

I Found A Bug With Ac 2

Started by ColonelMetus, 30 Oct 2013

No...you didn't.

[FinsT]

MustrumRidcully, on 31 October 2013 - 01:17 AM, said:

But why not paly a Quad PPC Stalker that just fires two Twin PPC salvos 0.5+ seconds apart? That's still a solid 20 damage alpha each time, which is better than you can get with pretty much any other weapon, and you still have plenty of time to get into cover and cool off or at least torso-twist defensively.

That 0.5 second delay is reason enough to stop using Quad PPCs? It's not like switching to AC/5, UAC/5 or AC/10 gives you an higher alpha strike, and you need to fire evne more often for the same damage output, meaning less time to stay in cover or torso twist.

In practice, the delay would be closer to 1 second, since the pilot would not want to risk a shutdown outta that massive ghost heat, and aiming for 2nd shot is often not an instant thing to happen, too. In 1 second, much can change. Target can disapear or start to strafe; or shooter might be moving into a position firing is impossible from. Whole deal of high alpha is an ability to dish out lots of damage in an _instant_, you know? And currently, 40 is still doable with, say, 2 PPCs and 2 AC/10s. For example, jagers can run this (most conviniently, Firebrand - all 4 weapons being in its arms), though armor suffers a bit at this setup, and it's low speed and high heat, too. I've been running exactly this setup for a while in my Firebrand, and it is massively better in terms of firepower than 20+20 (which jagers can do with dual AC/20s, that is). So much better that i favor it over 2xAC/20s now even despite lower armor and a bit lower speed, - also has to do with low AC/20 effective range and low projectile speed, of course.

Edited by FinsT, 05 November 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[Captain Stiffy]

boomshekah, on 30 October 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

6 PPC Stalker

Fixed

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 06 November 2013 - 02:54 AM.

[Troutmonkey]

Why run more than 2xPPC on a Stalker anyway? The cooldown on PPC is pretty short, so you only really need two.
The problem is that because LL have been hit so hard by Ghost Heat, I've actually moved away from them and BACK into PPC. Heck my Misery used to have LLs and AC20, now it runs 2xPPC 1xAC10. Heck all the Highlanders are now running 2xPPC 2xUAC5.

Remove ghost heat and LL's will come back, I do like variety.

But as the OP said AC2 Ghost heat is really dumb, and is one of the reasons I sold my Jager. I wanted 4x AC2 to fire continuously to avoid alpha penalty but PGI said no to that, and gave me a bigger one...

[OneEyed Jack]

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:21 AM, said:

Heck all the Highlanders are now running 2xPPC 2xUAC5.

That's for pop-tarting, not because of Ghost Heat. Pop-tarts have limited time to shoot while falling, so lasers don't work that well.

[Troutmonkey]

OneEyed Jack, on 06 November 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

That's for pop-tarting, not because of Ghost Heat. Pop-tarts have limited time to shoot while falling, so lasers don't work that well.

But ghost heat was sorta designed to stop that kinda method, among other things

[ColonelMetus]

OneEyed Jack, on 06 November 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

That's for pop-tarting, not because of Ghost Heat. Pop-tarts have limited time to shoot while falling, so lasers don't work that well.

SEE

[sC4r]

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

But ghost heat was sorta designed to stop that kinda method, among other things

except ghost heat didnt do a jack about poptarts... peeps just went down on highlanders from 3 ppcs to 2 ppc... and some even ignored it

only thing it did was cancel quad/hexa PPC/LL, F-worded some heavy Mlas laserboats and ac40 builds, confused new people and pissed off lots of players

now that i think about it ghost heat did a lot things O.o

[Viges]

What Einstein said.