95 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

I feel that Medium mechs will never be balanced through the tweaking of Torso twist values, as the previous balancing pass focused on.

In order to give Medium Mechs a chance to do what they are supposed to do, which is out-maneuver larger Mechs, they will have to be given better turning radii and better acceleration and deceleration. A fast Torso Twist is a good thing to have when you are trying to spread damage out across your Mech, but that kind of survival feature is better employed by Heavy and Assault Mechs that have enough armor to survive a prolonged combat engagement. Medium Mechs cannot survive prolonged combat engagements with larger Mechs no matter how fast they can twist their torsos.

If Medium Mechs were blessed with the ability to turn sharper and manage their speed better, then they could utilize maneuverability to weave in and out of cover and to run circles around larger Mechs in their struggle to avoid accumulating fatal damage. It should be a common agreement that Medium Mechs are fragile and under gunned compared to all the Heavy and Assault Mechs, but they are too slow and too large to use pure speed and small stature to avoid incoming fire such as the Light Mechs are able to do.

The *only* chance that Medium Mechs have to secure a place on the field is if they have the ability to get in and out of combat rapidly. Tonnage Limitations will not serve to put more Medium Mechs on the field in their current incarnation because an organized team will simply run a mix of Lights and Heavies to keep their weight down instead of running Mediums, because Heavies can out-fight the Mediums (hands down) and Lights can perform capping, spotting, and scouting better than Mediums. Mediums have no role right now because they cannot out-maneuver Heavy Mechs with big engines, and they cannot out-run Lights.

Giving Mediums the ability to turn sharper, stop faster, and get going quicker will provide them with a chance to fight and survive to tell the tale; Giving Medium Mechs a faster Torso Twist will only give them the chance to survive for 5 seconds longer before they die horribly. Does anyone else feel this way?

Edited by Prosperity Park, 04 November 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Wow. I'm liking a post written by Prosperity.

Mediums are my favorite weight class. Long live the little guys!

[Joseph Mallan]

Yes Maneuverability should go Lights>Medium>Heavies>Assaults. With Locusts being able to almost 180 on a dime.

[Donnie Silveray]

I feel as if my old Centurion is languishing because it cannot turn tight enough. It only feels marginally less sluggish than my BLR-1G. I'd appreciate modifications on its agility.

[Roland]

Yes, there is no reason to not boost medium mech agility across the board.

Please PGI, just do this. It will make your game better.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I mastered the cent and treb. Still have one treb I use for harrasment and lite killing duties with the occasinal cap when were short lites. I love it and think it handles quite well. Of course I am a heavy/assault driver so the Victor is a F1 racer to me. I think mediums range overall is to narrow considering lites can take on assaults easily. Its more the game the way its setup that kills mediums than mediums themselves.

[PEEFsmash]

This is right, but it needs to be paired with significant light buffs as well, especially against bigs. The light buffs will be justified , as mediums will be properly equipped to defend the bigs against lights. Circle of balance, tah dah.

[Felicitatem Parco]

There are many ways to improve the abilities of Medium Mechs without having to re-scale the models. Giving consideration to their intended role, which is a cheap bruiser and not a battle cruiser, this could be very well complimented with greater maneuverability. There is a reason why smaller things in the world tend to be more agile than larger things, and that's because the smaller and weaker things need their agility to survive in the face of stronger things.

There is currently a very small difference in the turning radius of any given Heavy Mech that has been up-engined to the same speed of a given Medium Mech; this should change. I know that the linear speed of a Mech will be determined by Engine divided by Weight, but I feel that maneuverability should be *strongly* in favor of the Medium Mech, instead of the current system where they see only a slight and almost insignificant advantage in turning ability, acceleration, and deceleration.

[Murphy7]

PEEFsmash, on 04 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

This is right, but it needs to be paired with significant light buffs as well, especially against bigs. The light buffs will be justified , as mediums will be properly equipped to defend the bigs against lights. Circle of balance, tah dah.

I would buy into that IF and WHEN it is noted that lights are being unfarily taken advantage of. Given the relative scaling of medium mechs I don't feel that lights will be so much disadvantaged as find themselves enjoying less of a significant advantage. It might look like a nerf from a light pilot's perspective, but that is because the mediums are in desperate need of a buff.

[Doctor Proctor]

PEEFsmash, on 04 November 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

This is right, but it needs to be paired with significant light buffs as well, especially against bigs. The light buffs will be justified , as mediums will be properly equipped to defend the bigs against lights. Circle of balance, tah dah.

Honestly, I don't know that Light buffs would be required. Lights can run circles around Mediums as it is, and any Medium looking to take on Heavies and Assaults isn't going to have the best loadout for dealing with Light mechs. I would say to buff the Mediums first, then if the rivers run black with the oil of Lights we can give them a bit of a buff.

[Mcgral18]

I wouldn't mind medium buffs, but I think the heavier mechs need some nerfs when it comes to torso twist. They just seem to do most things better, with no penalty, not even size since some of the meds are just as big!

The only thing meds have going for them is that they are not a priority target in a deathball, so you can get behind and possibly core something.

[Doctor Proctor]

Mcgral18, on 04 November 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

I wouldn't mind medium buffs, but I think the heavier mechs need some nerfs when it comes to torso twist. They just seem to do most things better, with no penalty, not even size since some of the meds are just as big!

The only thing meds have going for them is that they are not a priority target in a deathball, so you can get behind and possibly core something.

Depends on the deathball... I've had plenty of matches where I show up into a huge brawl between Heavies and Assaults and suddenly the whole team starts focusing me. I'm assuming it's because they figure I'm easier to kill than that Atlas with orange CT armor...and they're right.

[Murphy7]

Doctor Proctor, on 04 November 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

Depends on the deathball... I've had plenty of matches where I show up into a huge brawl between Heavies and Assaults and suddenly the whole team starts focusing me. I'm assuming it's because they figure I'm easier to kill than that Atlas with orange CT armor...and they're right.

More of a pug than premade behavior, I think. You'll get some heroes hunting down whatever they think will be the quickest kill for them to obtain, so that their KDR mgiht lend them some extra credence in other social arenas.

Premades tend to focus down whatever is getting the beat stick at any given moment, so oddly enough, it is occasionally EASIER to get your Shadowhawk or Centrurion into a good position for a few well placed volleys than it is fighting the herd of sugar addled toddlers that pees in the pug pool every so often.

[ManDaisy]

Yes, scaling innate turn radius/speed/ acceleration/ decelaration, should be more then just dependent on the engine. I support this 100%.

[Mister Blastman]

Murphy7, on 04 November 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

I would buy into that IF and WHEN it is noted that lights are being unfarily taken advantage of. Given the relative scaling of medium mechs I don't feel that lights will be so much disadvantaged as find themselves enjoying less of a significant advantage. It might look like a nerf from a light pilot's perspective, but that is because the mediums are in desperate need of a buff.

But lights aren't a significant advantage right now. Not by a longshot. If you play vs. pro players, that is.

In the Pro levels lights die in one or two shots. 2x PPC + 2x AC 5 obliterates light legs in a single alpha many times leaving them hopping and begging to die.

[Selfish]

I agree in concept, but not in execution. I'd rather reduce the agility of heavies and assaults than continuously push everything faster and faster. The problem is most easily adjusted in the placeholder efficiency tree, which ultimately gives all mechs a ton of control & responsiveness.

[Mudhutwarrior]

ManDaisy, on 04 November 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

Yes, scaling innate turn radius/speed/ acceleration/ decelaration, should be more then just dependent on the engine. I support this 100%.

I had no idea that was the case. Seconded.

[Ahja]

Scaling! Scaling! Scaling! One would think this would be a major issue with more Mediums in the game than ever. However it is not it seems. The odd thing is that scaling all the Mechs would take care of many of the game problems almost immediately. It would cause some new problems but I see no sane reason why this has not been done in a game that is supposed to be about role combat.

[Asyres]

Selfish, on 04 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

I agree in concept, but not in execution. I'd rather reduce the agility of heavies and assaults than continuously push everything faster and faster. The problem is most easily adjusted in the placeholder efficiency tree, which ultimately gives all mechs a ton of control & responsiveness.

I feel like this is probably a good approach. While there are other underlying issues (scale, etc.), the ability to drastically increase the maneuverability of heavies and assaults through pilot skills erodes the few advantages of lights and mediums.

[Corvus Antaka]

I'll have to go with tonnage limits first, before any more changes to mechs systems like torso twist, etc.

Beyond that I'd say that lights through mediums could all use better accel & decel in general across the board.