87 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

Almost all of the ideas posted are great.

Another good suggestion is to make engines more efficient in Locusts, so make engines that would previously move the locust 150 move them 170, leaving more room for something useful. The module slot increases and leg armor increases are entirely mandatory if this mech is ever going to be even slightly relevant.

[Levon K]

xRatas, on 01 November 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Fix the heat sink requirement on locust. So the initial 10 heatsinks that can not fit inside engine use up extra critical space but not extra tonnage.

Every time I see this I want to cry.

The initial 10 heatsinks are already free. They weigh 0 tons.

If you wish to bring 6 heat sinks, you will save 4 x 0 = 0 tons.


Edit: Spelling

Edited by Levon K, 03 November 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[dario03]

Levon K, on 03 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

Every time I see this I want to cry.

The initial 10 heatsinks are already free. They weigh 0 tons.

If you wish to bring 6 heat sinks, you will save 4 x 0 = 0 tons.


Edit: Spelling

What? Those 4 heatsinks weight is not built into the engine so yeah you are spending 4 tons and 4 or 12 crit slots for heatsinks. While a mech with a 250 engine will have all the weight built in to the engine (and have more true dhs) and not lose the crit slots. Making it so locusts can run with just 6 heatsinks would let you leave out those 4 heatsinks and save you tonnage and crit slots compared to how it is currently.

[Captain Stiffy]

You can make a killing with one using NARC and TAG ... IF ... you actually understand how the spotting mechanic works and how to get the bonuses from it.

It's also a fun little early cap trollboat. Wow, sure is fun to go that fast!

Outside of that the Locust is garbage.

[PEEFsmash]

Captain Stiffy, on 03 November 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:

You can make a killing with one using NARC and TAG ... IF ... you actually understand how the spotting mechanic works and how to get the bonuses from it.

It's also a fun little early cap trollboat. Wow, sure is fun to go that fast!

Outside of that the Locust is garbage.

Both of those things are done VASTLY better by other mechs.

[Deathlike]

PEEFsmash, on 03 November 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Both of those things are done VASTLY better by other mechs.

ECM Spider is currently the most optimal TAG troll.

[Sable Dove]

Reduce it in size by about 30%. It's almost the same size as a Spider, and it has an absolutely terrible design. The biggest issue is that its legs are huge, in addition to being terribly fragile.

Another mech that suffers from inappropriate scaling.

You know how the Commando is too big? The Locust is the same size, with larger, weaker legs, and arms that don't protect anything.

[Deathlike]

Sable Dove, on 03 November 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Reduce it in size by about 30%. It's almost the same size as a Spider, and it has an absolutely terrible design. The biggest issue is that its legs are huge, in addition to being terribly fragile.

Another mech that suffers from inappropriate scaling.

You know how the Commando is too big? The Locust is the same size, with larger, weaker legs, and arms that don't protect anything.

Well, you could say that for the Cicada... except there's this crazy critterman pilot that would disagree with you.

You know... working as intended™.

Edited by Deathlike, 03 November 2013 - 05:12 PM.

[MonkeyCheese]

Unless you are in a swarm the best way to drive a locust is to not be seen until the last moment.

[Durant Carlyle]

dario03, on 03 November 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

What? Those 4 heatsinks weight is not built into the engine so yeah you are spending 4 tons and 4 or 12 crit slots for heatsinks. While a mech with a 250 engine will have all the weight built in to the engine (and have more true dhs) and not lose the crit slots. Making it so locusts can run with just 6 heatsinks would let you leave out those 4 heatsinks and save you tonnage and crit slots compared to how it is currently.

In tabletop BattleTech, you get 10 heat sinks for free. They take no tonnage, just critical slots if they don't fit into the engine. You could theoretically take less than 10 heat sinks, but you would gain no tonnage, because the heat sinks were tonnage-free in the first place.

Because of the way the devs did the engine weights in MW:O, it APPEARS that the extra heat sinks to make the minimum 10 take tonnage. However, once all of the calculations are done, they adhere to the tabletop engine weights precisely.

Let's calculate it out...

MW:O (includes Cockpit and Gyro weight in engine):
190 XL engine = 6 tons
Extra heat sinks to equal 10 minimum = 3 tons
Total = 9 tons

BattleTech tabletop (from Classic BattleTech Master Rules Revised Edition, based on third printing with additional corrections, pages 115-117):
190 XL engine = 4 tons
Extra heat sinks to equal 10 minimum = 0 tons
Cockpit = 3 tons
Gyro = 2 tons
Total = 9 tons

See? Tabletop and MW:O match. You're actually getting those 10 heat sinks tonnage-free in MW:O.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 04 November 2013 - 09:44 AM.

[dario03]

But this isn't TT. If a Locust was allowed to run with less than 10 heatsinks or had the externals up to 10 not weigh anything then in this game, it would have weight freed up.

[Sable Dove]

Honestly the problem isn't the crit space or tonnage - the weight works out like TT, and the locust generally doesn't have enough tonnage for the crits to run short.

The problem (solely in regards to the heatsinks) is that at a minimum, you're losing 0.18 heat per second, and if you use an XL170, you're losing 0.24. With 10 heatsinks, you have the effective cooling of less than 9. This is fine for the 1V, and usually for the 3S, But the 3M suffers most because you effectively gets a ~10% penalty to base heat dissipation (as well as a small penalty to heat capacity), which hurts it as an energy boat.

My Locust 3M with an XL180 has 12DHS, but the actual cooling effect is much closer to 11DHS on any mech with a 250+ engine (2.1 vs 2.14 heat per second, respectively). So essentially, because external DHS are only 1.4x, the Locust has to waste an extra ton for cooling if it runs hot.

The Commando suffers from a similar issue, but only losing about the equivalent to an external DHS, rather than an internal (7+3 on Locust = 1.82; 8+2 on Commando = 1.88; 10+0 on >250 engines = 2.0).

[stjobe]

Malleus011, on 03 November 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

It desperately needs a safe fall distance increase.

This. It's ridiculous that a 'mech that's designed to go 150+ kph takes damage to its legs while doing so.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 04 November 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

This. It's ridiculous that a 'mech that's designed to go 150+ kph takes damage to its legs while doing so.

Locusts need to learn how to play hopscotch.

[Bagheera]

Khobai, on 01 November 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

1) Locust cockpit needs to be redone. This is the biggest problem with the Locust IMO because the damn cockpit obstructs half your view. As if piloting a locust wasnt vexing enough already, youre also forced to choose between playing with blinders or playing with binoculars.

I'd forgive its other shortcomings and buy a set of them if it weren't for this.

[Deathlike]

Bagheera, on 04 November 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

I'd forgive its other shortcomings and buy a set of them if it weren't for this.

Can we compromise and give the Locust a monocle?

[stjobe]

Sable Dove, on 04 November 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

Honestly the problem isn't the crit space or tonnage - the weight works out like TT, and the locust generally doesn't have enough tonnage for the crits to run short.

The problem (solely in regards to the heatsinks) is that at a minimum, you're losing 0.18 heat per second, and if you use an XL170, you're losing 0.24. With 10 heatsinks, you have the effective cooling of less than 9. This is fine for the 1V, and usually for the 3S, But the 3M suffers most because you effectively gets a ~10% penalty to base heat dissipation (as well as a small penalty to heat capacity), which hurts it as an energy boat.

My Locust 3M with an XL180 has 12DHS, but the actual cooling effect is much closer to 11DHS on any mech with a 250+ engine (2.1 vs 2.14 heat per second, respectively). So essentially, because external DHS are only 1.4x, the Locust has to waste an extra ton for cooling if it runs hot.

The Commando suffers from a similar issue, but only losing about the equivalent to an external DHS, rather than an internal (7+3 on Locust = 1.82; 8+2 on Commando = 1.88; 10+0 on >250 engines = 2.0).

This. I've been saying this forever. The 1.4 DHS is such a pointless, needless, and utterly idiotic thing to have implemented for the first mandatory 10 heat sinks.

I often run with a XL195 in my Commandos, which means I lose 1.8 heat capacity and dissipation for no bloody reason other than stupid short-sightedness and stubborn pig-headedness on PGI's part.

Having DHS at 2.0 have been shown again and again and again not to be the apocalypse that PGI thinks it would be - and if they don't want to make all external DHS 2.0 (which would be the right thing to do) they should at least make the first 10 heat sinks be 2.0.

That cannot be hard to implement. I say this full well knowing that I don't know squat about their code base, but unless it's such a mess the code is basically not salvageable, even a mediocre programmer could implement a check on the number of heat sinks installed and adjust the heat cap and dissipation values accordingly.

There's simply no point in having this stupid, petty, pointless penalty for 'mechs with sub-250 engines.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 04 November 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Can we compromise and give the Locust a monocle?

You have given me a task that I cannot refuse.

[Lykaon]

My observations on the Locust as a pilot.

Locust vs Locust = good balanced fight unless one has streaks and the other doesn't
Locust vs commando= good balanced fight unless the Commando is a 2D with streaks and ECM
Locust vs Spider= tough fight Spider jumps and occational invulnerability turn the tide
Locust vs Raven= tough fight the Raven's superior fire power and armor make this dicey if both pilots are skilled
If the Raven is a 4L the streaks win the fight hands down.
Locust vs Jenner=Tough fight the superior armor/firepower/JJs and potential streak use make this a Jenner centric fight.

What it boils down to is Locusts in the light arena can not play the ECM/BAP/Streaks game so handily lose against any mech that has Streaks and can draw a bead on them.Because of the need to mount BAP to effectivley use streaks against other lights a Locust is even further disadvantaged by having it's weapon payload "taxed" by 1.5 tons just to be sure it can work at all.

A large part of this problem is the failure of AMS to engage SRM/SSRM missiles that are fired at sub 200m ranges.The Locust M variant could potentially serve a purpose with twin AMS if only the AMS worked against SRM/SSRM missiles at any range.
If the AMS worked as advertised against Streaks the Locust M with twin AMS would destroy upward of 4 missiles from a streak flight.Essentially nullifying the streak threat from every other light mech we currently have except the Commando 2D with it's three missile hardpoints.

[Jack Spade Ward]

In my opinion, the locust will be an extinct mech.
I can speak from my experience, once i have the master on all of them, they will probably fade in oblivion of my mech bays...

But to be honest, its a fun mech to play, 170kph its fun, and anoys the bigger mechs, altough the one-shot kill / leg destroyed tends to be frustrating.

I dont have any problem with the locust being shot down with just one shot, its a 20Ton mech, its suposed to be easy to destroy. Its role is a pure scout mech, not made for a one-on-one fight. Now compare it to a spider... the biggest overpowered mech on the game, and only 10 tons more than the locust?

So, i would only like to see the locusts legs a bit (not too much, just a bit) improved. Honestly, compare it to the spider...