The Locust - Revisited
#21
Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:35 AM
Another good suggestion is to make engines more efficient in Locusts, so make engines that would previously move the locust 150 move them 170, leaving more room for something useful. The module slot increases and leg armor increases are entirely mandatory if this mech is ever going to be even slightly relevant.
#22
Posted 03 November 2013 - 09:44 AM
xRatas, on 01 November 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:
Every time I see this I want to cry.
The initial 10 heatsinks are already free. They weigh 0 tons.
If you wish to bring 6 heat sinks, you will save 4 x 0 = 0 tons.
Edit: Spelling
Edited by Levon K, 03 November 2013 - 09:44 AM.
#23
Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:44 AM
Levon K, on 03 November 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:
Every time I see this I want to cry.
The initial 10 heatsinks are already free. They weigh 0 tons.
If you wish to bring 6 heat sinks, you will save 4 x 0 = 0 tons.
Edit: Spelling
What? Those 4 heatsinks weight is not built into the engine so yeah you are spending 4 tons and 4 or 12 crit slots for heatsinks. While a mech with a 250 engine will have all the weight built in to the engine (and have more true dhs) and not lose the crit slots. Making it so locusts can run with just 6 heatsinks would let you leave out those 4 heatsinks and save you tonnage and crit slots compared to how it is currently.
#24
Posted 03 November 2013 - 10:58 AM
It's also a fun little early cap trollboat. Wow, sure is fun to go that fast!
Outside of that the Locust is garbage.
#25
Posted 03 November 2013 - 04:52 PM
Captain Stiffy, on 03 November 2013 - 10:58 AM, said:
It's also a fun little early cap trollboat. Wow, sure is fun to go that fast!
Outside of that the Locust is garbage.
Both of those things are done VASTLY better by other mechs.
#27
Posted 03 November 2013 - 05:08 PM
Another mech that suffers from inappropriate scaling.
You know how the Commando is too big? The Locust is the same size, with larger, weaker legs, and arms that don't protect anything.
#28
Posted 03 November 2013 - 05:12 PM
Sable Dove, on 03 November 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:
Another mech that suffers from inappropriate scaling.
You know how the Commando is too big? The Locust is the same size, with larger, weaker legs, and arms that don't protect anything.
Well, you could say that for the Cicada... except there's this crazy
You know... working as intended™.
Edited by Deathlike, 03 November 2013 - 05:12 PM.
#29
Posted 03 November 2013 - 06:24 PM
#30
Posted 04 November 2013 - 09:42 AM
dario03, on 03 November 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:
In tabletop BattleTech, you get 10 heat sinks for free. They take no tonnage, just critical slots if they don't fit into the engine. You could theoretically take less than 10 heat sinks, but you would gain no tonnage, because the heat sinks were tonnage-free in the first place.
Because of the way the devs did the engine weights in MW:O, it APPEARS that the extra heat sinks to make the minimum 10 take tonnage. However, once all of the calculations are done, they adhere to the tabletop engine weights precisely.
Let's calculate it out...
MW:O (includes Cockpit and Gyro weight in engine):
190 XL engine = 6 tons
Extra heat sinks to equal 10 minimum = 3 tons
Total = 9 tons
BattleTech tabletop (from Classic BattleTech Master Rules Revised Edition, based on third printing with additional corrections, pages 115-117):
190 XL engine = 4 tons
Extra heat sinks to equal 10 minimum = 0 tons
Cockpit = 3 tons
Gyro = 2 tons
Total = 9 tons
See? Tabletop and MW:O match. You're actually getting those 10 heat sinks tonnage-free in MW:O.
Edited by Durant Carlyle, 04 November 2013 - 09:44 AM.
#31
Posted 04 November 2013 - 01:33 PM
#32
Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:11 PM
The problem (solely in regards to the heatsinks) is that at a minimum, you're losing 0.18 heat per second, and if you use an XL170, you're losing 0.24. With 10 heatsinks, you have the effective cooling of less than 9. This is fine for the 1V, and usually for the 3S, But the 3M suffers most because you effectively gets a ~10% penalty to base heat dissipation (as well as a small penalty to heat capacity), which hurts it as an energy boat.
My Locust 3M with an XL180 has 12DHS, but the actual cooling effect is much closer to 11DHS on any mech with a 250+ engine (2.1 vs 2.14 heat per second, respectively). So essentially, because external DHS are only 1.4x, the Locust has to waste an extra ton for cooling if it runs hot.
The Commando suffers from a similar issue, but only losing about the equivalent to an external DHS, rather than an internal (7+3 on Locust = 1.82; 8+2 on Commando = 1.88; 10+0 on >250 engines = 2.0).
#35
Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:42 PM
Khobai, on 01 November 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:
I'd forgive its other shortcomings and buy a set of them if it weren't for this.
#37
Posted 04 November 2013 - 02:59 PM
Sable Dove, on 04 November 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:
The problem (solely in regards to the heatsinks) is that at a minimum, you're losing 0.18 heat per second, and if you use an XL170, you're losing 0.24. With 10 heatsinks, you have the effective cooling of less than 9. This is fine for the 1V, and usually for the 3S, But the 3M suffers most because you effectively gets a ~10% penalty to base heat dissipation (as well as a small penalty to heat capacity), which hurts it as an energy boat.
My Locust 3M with an XL180 has 12DHS, but the actual cooling effect is much closer to 11DHS on any mech with a 250+ engine (2.1 vs 2.14 heat per second, respectively). So essentially, because external DHS are only 1.4x, the Locust has to waste an extra ton for cooling if it runs hot.
The Commando suffers from a similar issue, but only losing about the equivalent to an external DHS, rather than an internal (7+3 on Locust = 1.82; 8+2 on Commando = 1.88; 10+0 on >250 engines = 2.0).
This. I've been saying this forever. The 1.4 DHS is such a pointless, needless, and utterly idiotic thing to have implemented for the first mandatory 10 heat sinks.
I often run with a XL195 in my Commandos, which means I lose 1.8 heat capacity and dissipation for no bloody reason other than stupid short-sightedness and stubborn pig-headedness on PGI's part.
Having DHS at 2.0 have been shown again and again and again not to be the apocalypse that PGI thinks it would be - and if they don't want to make all external DHS 2.0 (which would be the right thing to do) they should at least make the first 10 heat sinks be 2.0.
That cannot be hard to implement. I say this full well knowing that I don't know squat about their code base, but unless it's such a mess the code is basically not salvageable, even a mediocre programmer could implement a check on the number of heat sinks installed and adjust the heat cap and dissipation values accordingly.
There's simply no point in having this stupid, petty, pointless penalty for 'mechs with sub-250 engines.
#39
Posted 04 November 2013 - 03:11 PM
Locust vs Locust = good balanced fight unless one has streaks and the other doesn't
Locust vs commando= good balanced fight unless the Commando is a 2D with streaks and ECM
Locust vs Spider= tough fight Spider jumps and occational invulnerability turn the tide
Locust vs Raven= tough fight the Raven's superior fire power and armor make this dicey if both pilots are skilled
If the Raven is a 4L the streaks win the fight hands down.
Locust vs Jenner=Tough fight the superior armor/firepower/JJs and potential streak use make this a Jenner centric fight.
What it boils down to is Locusts in the light arena can not play the ECM/BAP/Streaks game so handily lose against any mech that has Streaks and can draw a bead on them.Because of the need to mount BAP to effectivley use streaks against other lights a Locust is even further disadvantaged by having it's weapon payload "taxed" by 1.5 tons just to be sure it can work at all.
A large part of this problem is the failure of AMS to engage SRM/SSRM missiles that are fired at sub 200m ranges.The Locust M variant could potentially serve a purpose with twin AMS if only the AMS worked against SRM/SSRM missiles at any range.
If the AMS worked as advertised against Streaks the Locust M with twin AMS would destroy upward of 4 missiles from a streak flight.Essentially nullifying the streak threat from every other light mech we currently have except the Commando 2D with it's three missile hardpoints.
#40
Posted 04 November 2013 - 06:17 PM
I can speak from my experience, once i have the master on all of them, they will probably fade in oblivion of my mech bays...
But to be honest, its a fun mech to play, 170kph its fun, and anoys the bigger mechs, altough the one-shot kill / leg destroyed tends to be frustrating.
I dont have any problem with the locust being shot down with just one shot, its a 20Ton mech, its suposed to be easy to destroy. Its role is a pure scout mech, not made for a one-on-one fight. Now compare it to a spider... the biggest overpowered mech on the game, and only 10 tons more than the locust?
So, i would only like to see the locusts legs a bit (not too much, just a bit) improved. Honestly, compare it to the spider...
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