73 replies to this topic

[Malleus011]

Look, three heavy mechs, standing together.

[Dudeman3k]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 01 November 2013 - 12:16 PM, said:

Frankly iv never given it a thought tell I saw this thread.
That being said. I am happy with the look of the game and the mechs. The LAST thing I want the devs to have to do is go back and re size the mechs. The good news is THEY WILL NEVER RE SIZE THE MECHS. So please stop wasting you and our time posting this in GAMEPLAY BALANCE!
*reported because this does not belong here* look 4 this in suggestions....

lolol hahahahahah

"Reported!! becuase im a dickless pathetic mouth breather!!" bahahahahaha...

and size does matter.. your only mad about these treads because ladies need to remind of that when they leave horrified and completely disappointed by your performance (if you get any that year).

Size does have a direct impact on balance.. and its BAD NEWS if they wont look into size scaling. Armor values are too small with pin-point convergence and mediums.

[Sable Dove]

Detrimus, on 03 November 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

This sums up the problem quite nicely.

That a shadowhawk at 55 tons looks as large, if not larger, than a Victor at 80 tons...

Come on people!

Wow, I only took a glance and thought that was a Battlemaster, and the point was that the Cat was too big (though it still is). Didn't realize how ridiculously large the Shadowhawk is.

[Shadey99]

Sable Dove, on 03 November 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Wow, I only took a glance and thought that was a Battlemaster, and the point was that the Cat was too big (though it still is). Didn't realize how ridiculously large the Shadowhawk is.

I noted when the Phoenix mechs first came out that my Battlemasters were staring into the cockpits of Shadowhawks. So nice that '55 ton mech size' is apparently roughly equal to '85 ton mech size'. And yes, since I know I'll hear this, I know perfectly well that the BM is wider if not taller than the SHD.

Mediums are a joke in size. Heck my Shadowhawks can cleanly fire over the head of a Hunchie which is a meer 5 tons lighter, yet '55 ton mech size' is the size of a Heavy or Assault... The only mediums that come close to be correctly sized are the Hunchies and Blackjacks and even those are somewhat to large in comparison to the mechs under them in weight.

I was considering the 'saber' package with the Wolverine and Griffin because it's not such a bad deal when I already have the overlord package, but 6 more oversized mediums is not appealing. Some people have had success with the Shadowhawk, but I am certainly not one of them as I have trouble keeping them even near a 1:1 K:D ratio. It's just much to easy to shoot and I'm not nearly as agile as lighter mediums.

[FupDup]

Shadey99, on 03 November 2013 - 08:29 PM, said:

...Some people have had success with the Shadowhawk, but I am certainly not one of them as I have trouble keeping them even near a 1:1 K:D ratio. It's just much to easy to shoot and I'm not nearly as agile as lighter mediums.

Kinda off-topic, but what kind of loadout are you bringing? As a general rule, the "best" Shawk builds are basically configured like slower Streaktaros (XL 275 at the very least, don't go too far above XL 300 though) with a (U)AC/5 attached to their shoulder and a jetpack. I also find that although monstrously tall, it has very good hitboxes to compensate (can shield CT and even sides fairly well with twisting). One perk of the Shawk is that its legs actually attract a lot of fire (especially when jumping), which helps your torso last longer (always go with maxed leg armor on Shads, I learned this the hard way...).

Edited by FupDup, 03 November 2013 - 08:34 PM.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 03 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Kinda off-topic, but what kind of loadout are you bringing? As a general rule, the "best" Shawk builds are basically configured like slower Streaktaros (XL 275 at the very least, don't go too far above XL 300 though) with a (U)AC/5 attached to their shoulder and a jetpack. I also find that although monstrously tall, it has very good hitboxes to compensate (can shield CT and even sides fairly well with twisting). One perk of the Shawk is that its legs actually attract a lot of fire (especially when jumping), which helps your torso last longer (always go with maxed leg armor on Shads, I learned this the hard way...).

Had you ever played the Quickdraw, this would be self-evident.

[Shadey99]

FupDup, on 03 November 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Kinda off-topic, but what kind of loadout are you bringing? As a general rule, the "best" Shawk builds are basically configured like slower Streaktaros (XL 275 at the very least, don't go too far above XL 300 though) with a (U)AC/5 attached to their shoulder and a jetpack. I also find that although monstrously tall, it has very good hitboxes to compensate (can shield CT and even sides fairly well with twisting). One perk of the Shawk is that its legs actually attract a lot of fire (especially when jumping), which helps your torso last longer (always go with maxed leg armor on Shads, I learned this the hard way...).

I've run streaktaro type builds, but I didn't do well with them... Mostly because the streaks are not much of a threat to anything bigger than a light and have short range. At the moment I sort of settled on a AC20 SHD for my 2H, while my 2D2 and 5M both run dual PPC+UAC5. This style of build has actually increased my K/D ratio, it went up from .5 to .67 or 1.

As for jumping causing shots to hit your legs... I just don't see that... People still shot me primarily in my CT, with the arms and side torsos catching a good number of shots (such usually I lose an arm first) before I die.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Avalios, on 01 November 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Lights
Locust Smaller
Spider Bigger

Mediums
ALL SMALLER
(including cicada, compare a jenner and a cicada and think about that it's only 5 tons difference)

Heavies
Dragon Smaller
Quickdraw Smaller

Assaults
Stalker Bigger but it doesn't matter much for assaults since any decent player doesn't miss them.

You forgot

Assaults
Awesome WAY SMALLER AND LESS FAT!

Detrimus, on 03 November 2013 - 01:53 AM, said:

This sums up the problem quite nicely.

That a shadowhawk at 55 tons looks as large, if not larger, than a Victor at 80 tons...

Come on people!

Everyone except PGI agrees that the mech scaling is absolutely abysmal. Everyone except PGI agrees that fixing the scale of current mechs is better than adding new, horribly scaled ones.

Edited by mwhighlander, 04 November 2013 - 06:43 AM.

[Artgathan]

Swervedriver, on 01 November 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

The most obvious offender to he whole scaling system is the Jagermech. Stood next to a Centurion, the Jagermech looks virtually the same weight. The Thunderbolt, at 5 tons lighter, looks almost 15 tons heavier compared to the Jager. Compared to an Atlas, the Jager at 70 tons looks nearly half the weight of the 100 tonner.

I'm surprised this has made it to page 3 and no one corrected this. The Jagermech is 65 tons, the same weight as the Thunderbolt (and 5 tons lighter than the Cataphract).

That said, I think the Shadow Hawk would be my pick for the worst offender in terms of scaling.

As for that one person who said "cosmetics don't effect gameplay", imagine the Atlas having the specs of a locust (same armor ratings, weapon loadout...) and imagine how well that would work.

[Vassago Rain]

Artgathan, on 04 November 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm surprised this has made it to page 3 and no one corrected this. The Jagermech is 65 tons, the same weight as the Thunderbolt (and 5 tons lighter than the Cataphract).

That said, I think the Shadow Hawk would be my pick for the worst offender in terms of scaling.

As for that one person who said "cosmetics don't effect gameplay", imagine the Atlas having the specs of a locust (same armor ratings, weapon loadout...) and imagine how well that would work.

Quickdraw. It's so huge, no one uses it.

[Dexter Herbivore]

The only scaling problem that I have is the enormous bushes/trees on the various maps. Seriously, EVERY tree is as big as or bigger than our mechs. (Although the locust could be either smaller or faster).

[Artgathan]

Dexter Herbivore, on 04 November 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

The only scaling problem that I have is the enormous bushes/trees on the various maps. Seriously, EVERY tree is as big as or bigger than our mechs. (Although the locust could be either smaller or faster).

Those are possible though. Consider that these worlds will host alien flora (as well as fauna, but I doubt we'll see any animals since they'd flee after hearing a 20+ Ton warmachine stomping towards them). Apart from that, trees on earth can easily grow to the heights seen in the game.

[Ahja]

So many words, so many {Noble MechWarriors}.... Just scale the Mechs Dev's? Or at minimum give some/any reason why my PHawk and Hunch are as or taller than my Atlas. Nuff said.

[Adridos]

Ahja, on 04 November 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Or at minimum give some/any reason why my PHawk and Hunch are as or taller than my Atlas. Nuff said.

You have a PHawk? Where did you get it? I want one too!

And Hunchback is the smallest medium mech we're talking the "step after Cicada" small. Nowhere near an Atlas...

[Wakdjunkaga]

Look at the mechs and how their size should be adjusted keeping their current proportions.

20T
Locust- 20% size reduction.

25T
Comanndo- 5% size reduction.

30T
Spider- 10% size increase.

35T
Jenner – leave it small.
Raven- 10% size reduction.

40T
Cicada- 10% size reduction.

45T
Blackjack- leave it as is.

50T
Hunchback- 10% size reduction.
Centurion- 10% size reduction.
Trebuchet- 15% size reduction.

55T
Kintaro- 15% size reduction.
Shadowhawk- 15% size reduction.

60T
Dragon- leave as is.
Quickdraw- 20% size reduction.

65T
Jagermech- leave as is.
Catapault- 10% size reduction.
Thunderbolt- 10% size reduction.

70T
Cataphract- leave as is. (I would say make a little bigger, but with other things shrinking, it is fine)

75T
Orion- 5% size reduction

80T
Victor- leave as is. baseline size for a ‘small’ assault
Awesome- 5% size reduction

85T
Stalker- 5% size increase
Battlemaster- leave as is.

90T
Highlander- leave as is.

100T
Atlas- leave as is.

[Krivvan]

The Shadow Hawk scaling isn't as much of a problem though because its main advantages cancel out its size.

[Shadey99]

Krivvan, on 05 November 2013 - 06:36 AM, said:

The Shadow Hawk scaling isn't as much of a problem though because its main advantages cancel out its size.

That's your opinion only. My results with it consistently show it is simply much to big and so takes way more fire than a medium ever should.

[Mokou]

Swervedriver, on 01 November 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

My idea for a solution: Heavy & Assault mechs should be bigger!

Yeah, make my AWS more suffer just because it SHOULD BE...
No way! Make my AWS thinner or smaller.

[Krivvan]

Shadey99, on 05 November 2013 - 06:38 AM, said:

That's your opinion only. My results with it consistently show it is simply much to big and so takes way more fire than a medium ever should.

It is pretty much undeniably the best Medium though. Not saying that means it's fine of course though, just means that all the other mediums are far worse.

[Ghogiel]

Deathlike, on 01 November 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

If the Urbie was introduced and was the size of an Atlas, would you be OK with that?

I imagine some people would just be happy to have big stompy urbie in the game

:\

Wakdjunkaga, on 04 November 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

Look at the mechs and how their size should be adjusted keeping their current proportions.

20T
Locust- 20% size reduction.

25T
Comanndo- 5% size reduction.

30T
Spider- 10% size increase.

35T
Jenner – leave it small.
Raven- 10% size reduction.

40T
Cicada- 10% size reduction.

45T
Blackjack- leave it as is.

50T
Hunchback- 10% size reduction.
Centurion- 10% size reduction.
Trebuchet- 15% size reduction.

55T
Kintaro- 15% size reduction.
Shadowhawk- 15% size reduction.

60T
Dragon- leave as is.
Quickdraw- 20% size reduction.

65T
Jagermech- leave as is.
Catapault- 10% size reduction.
Thunderbolt- 10% size reduction.

70T
Cataphract- leave as is. (I would say make a little bigger, but with other things shrinking, it is fine)

75T
Orion- 5% size reduction

80T
Victor- leave as is. baseline size for a ‘small’ assault
Awesome- 5% size reduction

85T
Stalker- 5% size increase
Battlemaster- leave as is.

90T
Highlander- leave as is.

100T
Atlas- leave as is.

Non 3d artists probably aren't used to doing this daily, but a 10% uniform scaling factor is rather large amount. Some of your changes would be like weight class changes. A 20% locust decrease is patently ridiculous. You heart is in the right place but your numbers are scary.

Edited by Ghogiel, 05 November 2013 - 07:25 AM.