55 replies to this topic

[Muddball]

So i'm poking around, and there is one thing that is bothering me. Light mechs are scouts, Heavy mechs and assault mechs are for slugging it out/fire support/tanking for your team. What exactly is being made to make medium mechs attractive?

The price of a medium mech makes sure that new players and pilots with low-funds choose them, but I would HATE to see the 40-55 ton mechs viewed as nothing more then a "stepping stone" to the big boys.They do not have the speed, armor (especially the armor) or firepower of other weight classes. They can gain one by sacrificing the other two, but will always come up short.

*holds up a hand* Yes, I am fully aware that a good player can pilot any mech and win. Altho I never made gunslinger status, I used to watch Shadow Hawks blow away other mechs in Solaris. I'm just wondering what can be done to make "the workhorses of the intersphere" more balanced.

Edited by Muddball, 16 June 2012 - 09:43 AM.

[Steelo]

medium mechs will chase out scouts

[Eximar]

I look for medium mechs to be in the backfield, making life hard on the support.

[Knusern]

Flanking?

[Aldinvor]

you can't make anything "more balanced" it's either balanced or it isn't, I fail to see any cause for concern. if you feel a medium needs improvement just take it to the frikken 'mechlab, son.

[Muddball]

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not looking for "how to use med mechs."

My all time favorite med mech is the Griffon. Nice command/firesupport mech. What I'm looking for is ways the developers are trying to 'push' medium mechs onto us. Price? More hardpoints for customization?

Edit: Mind you, I come from a tabletop background where that armor limit comes into play so often when your mechlabing a design.

Edited by Muddball, 16 June 2012 - 09:55 AM.

[gregsolidus]

They are the middle ground of speed,armor, and fire power,the jack of all trades of Battletech.they will serve ANY role moderately well.A scout but with more bite,an artillery unit that can constantly move out of harms way and into positon with greater ease,they're plenty attractive already.

Muddball, on 16 June 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not looking for "how to use med mechs."

My all time favorite med mech is the Griffon. Nice command/firesupport mech. What I'm looking for is ways the developers are trying to 'push' medium mechs onto us. Price? More hardpoints for customization?

I don't think any class is being pushed on us in particular.

[Muddball]

gregsolidus, on 16 June 2012 - 09:55 AM, said:

I don't think any class is being pushed on us in particular.

I agree, and I kinda have a problem with that. Light and Assault classes speak for themselves. Heavy mechs are honestly the mobile fire-support. So what is being made for the Medium class?

For the boardgame, c-bill and Battlevalue inherently made up for that. The BV system made sure your forces were reasonably fair.

[Aldinvor]

why should they need anything? if you think they're bad don't use 'em.

[gregsolidus]

Mediums are for people who like flexibility and don't want to choose more "obvious" roles like the Heavy and Assault.I love me some Atlas but it feels like it wouldn't take much skill to use a blunt instrument like that.

[Aegic]

I think they will be more "bruiser" oriented. Enough HP to take a few hits and enough weapons to demand attention with a little mobility mixed in. Generally speaking of course.

[Shadowscythe]

Probably could of poked around a bit more

Mediums are mostly an all round kind of mech. They can go pretty fast if you get a BIG engine, but have less weapons and armor. They can get a BIG weapon and be slower like a heavy.....
A heavy/assault can only go so fast stripped.
A light can't carry much at all but can get up to speeds that other mechs only dream about. and if you are going assult speed in a light all the time. You might as well just pick something else (although a hollander type mech can be fun here and there, but it can still go faster than an assault can go )
The engines only get so big in BT TT (before tech level 3)...if they have bigger than a 400 point engines. then people start going even faster

^^^^^^^^^^ what steelo said...in a medium , and XL engines, you can get up to default jenner speed and have more tonnage to work with. With a normal fusion the Cicada is about the same tonnage left over after getting up to 7/11 speed, But the 50 ton mechs have less tonnage at that speed

Also we don't have any specifics on what each mech has for module slots..that is going to be one of my major factors for decision actually

I guess if you come from a TT background and know how to make mechs from scratch. Then you pretty much should already know most of the differences....Most of the other differences we don't know for the most part..

Edited by Shadowscythe, 16 June 2012 - 11:47 AM.

[Forscythe]

Medium mechs can come to the aid of slower moving heavies and assaults. They can keep up with lights if you want to run down a heavy at distance. It really depends on how you load out your medium.

[Joe Mallad]

I see medium mech as your filler class. They are really the work horse and back bone of any force. Mediums can and do work well as heavy scouts and with there being so many medium mech types out there, they can fill any other role. Soldier, base protection, scout hunter and so on. I do believe that once the game goes into full playability and we all can get in and play... that you will see a lot of us gravitating to the mediums just because of their flexibility. I for one am looking forward to seeing how the fast medium Cicada will handle and stack up. But, until I get to try one out once the game launches... Im just going on what I THINK will be a good build to work with.

[Muddball]

Aldinvor, on 16 June 2012 - 10:02 AM, said:

why should they need anything? if you think they're bad don't use 'em.

I guess because I don't want to see everybody in either a Jenner or an Atlas.

[Aldinvor]

and yet all the polls done on the forums have show mediums and heavy to be the most popular choices. thus far your fears are unfounded, good sir.

[Muddball]

Shadowscythe, on 16 June 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Probably could of poked around a bit more

Probably.

@yoseful-mallad and Shadowscythe That calms me down considerably, as a mostly command style player I want the jack-of-all-trades type to be a viable choice.

Aldinvor, on 16 June 2012 - 10:13 AM, said:

and yet all the polls done on the forums have show mediums and heavy to be the most popular choices. thus far your fears are unfounded, good sir.

I saw it, and while the forums are eager to put forth what they WANT to play, I was looking for a more nuts and bolts type of answer.

Edited by Muddball, 16 June 2012 - 10:17 AM.

[Shadowscythe]

Muddball, on 16 June 2012 - 10:10 AM, said:

I guess because I don't want to see everybody in either a Jenner or an Atlas.

Well...That is actually hard to predict...acording to the polls most aren't in light/assault. but then sample size on those isn't very big. only a couple thousand at most...

Yeah, I plan on trying both command and scout. (most likely not in the same mech, probably cata for command and jenner for scout, since the raven doesn't have jump jets and I REALLY like jump jets) and assault will most likely be to slow to command, as in the battle could get out of comms range (whatever that range is) and not be able to get back into range fast enough...assuming you don't take it up to a 4/6 speed lol

So a 50 ton medium (like a centurion) might be a good starting for me since I can start as command and have a balance of mobility, armor, and a hardpoint for LRM or some long range balistic (most lights don't have a balistic hardpoint, probably because balistics weigh so much)...

Then once I get enough c-bills for a BIG XL engine, take it scout config without having to get a new mech and level that chassis....Although the only medium I think that has jump jets is one of the varients of the Cicada and I don't know that that one is even in game...There is the HBK-5S - hunchback with jump jets, but that has a LBX/20 so that varient is probably a ways off time wise...So even I haven't been able to make up my mind till I can compare stuff like module slots or if there are any 50 ton mechs that have jump jets

If I was a damage medium (tactics wise) I would just hang behind the biggest on our side with mostly short range weapons and 1 LONG range weapon..Take the long shots till a scout tries to flank the big buy. Kill the scout

Edited by Shadowscythe, 16 June 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[Cerlin]

This topic has been rehashed so many times....I would say essentially "balanced" is a loaded word.

If you go straight up with a heavy/assault in a brawl as a medium, you will probably die. IF you fight a light you will probably win. That is how battletech works. Of course the balancing condition is pilot skill and builds. For example, a Hunchback prime will beat a catapult prime in close range, but if its an atlas the hunchback will probably die (even assuming the atlas didnt get any long range hits with the LRM.)

IF you feel this makes you not want to pilot a medium, then dont. What made mediums viable in tabletop was the cost/weight for what they could bring to the field. What should help make them useful in MWO is both the cost and the speed. Even if a ground speed of a mech is only a little higher than the heavy/assault, it should have better acceleration and maneuverability. If it doesnt then it would be harder to justify.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Medium 'mechs are the jack of all trades and utility. They are much more well armored than lights and pack a significantly bigger punch, while still able to stand up to Heavies to an extent. They are great for hit and run, hunter killers, and for outmaneuvering the heavies/assaults for flanks, or quick strikes on vulnerable positions. They also excel at closing in on support 'mechs like a catapult in the backfield and making life very difficult for them.

They definitely have a good role in 'mech combat.