55 replies to this topic

[Xantars]

the devs arent pushing any mech on us you pick your ride and live or die on that choice its that simple

[Cerlin]

Muddball, on 16 June 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

Is is a loaded word. But what i've seen rehashed over and over is alot of ideas and desires and wants. What I couldn't find is any real tech answer.


Awful lot of "should" has been thrown around.

Both your points are correct. And I also would like a firm answer but until we get hands on info and can share it, there will be very much speculation and few answers. Considering the game has been basically announced that it will spend a lot more time in the beta, balance will be ongoing work. So beta testers and founders will need to do their part to help this along.

[Shadowscythe]

Aldinvor, on 16 June 2012 - 10:33 AM, said:

alright, riddle me this:
Why would you choose a light over a medium, when you can make a medium do the same thing as a light but have better weapons and armour?
Why would you use a medium over a heavy, when you can blah blah?
Why choose a heavy over an assault when etc, etc?

Only the dev's know the answer, and they aint sayin'.

If you take out info we have no idea about (other than actual videos in action), like specifics ("only the dev's know the answer, and they aint sayin'");;;
torso twist speed,
module slots,
accelerate/stopping speeds,
turning radius, and others...

Then you take out some of the personal preferences;
Appearence,
how big of a target your mech is (if that matters to you),
if you like normal humanoid legs or reverse joint (chicken legs),
mechs with hands (no use for hands right now that we know of) or weapon stumps (which can't aim off the to side as well in MWO, that someone heard somewhere, can't think of exact quote, might look for it later),
and some others


Pretty much comes down to Hardpoints, and Max speed-Max armor/tonnage for weapons sliding scale.

Which ALSO involves some personal preferences because some people don't like being slow, others don't like balistics and so on. Some like a mech with jump jets (me), other people don't care about them.

• MAX SPEED--------------------------------------------------------------MAX ARMOR-tonnage for weapons
  
• <----------------------------------------------------------------------------------->
  
• Light___________medium______________heavy____________assault

A light can never carry the same amount of exact same armor type that a class heavier than it can




An assault will never get up to max speeds that a light can get up to or even a medium for that matter.

For example (sorry, these are going to be in BT TT stats since I don't know the conversion speeds, can probably look them up on sarna or something)

These number are ONLY internal structure and engine...these are also MAX speeds. not the speed they are going to go by default.... example...the default hunchback is 4/6....The below is also assuming that you can't buy partial engine upgrades, like changing from 31kph to 32KPH

BEFORE XL engines (skipping mech tonnages that aren't confirmed to be in game) And no ferro armor or endo structure

• Tonnage, name, MAX speed-tonnage to spare_______after engine downgrade
  
• 
  
• 25ton Commando 11/17 --1_____10/15 4
  
• 35ton Raven, Jenner 9/14--3______8/12--9.5
  
• 40ton Cicada 8/12--6.5______7/11--14
  
• 50ton Hunchback, Centurion 7/11--8.5______6/9--20
  
• 60ton Dragon 6/9--14_____5/8--29
  
• 65ton Catapult 6/9--5.5_____5/8--28
  
• 70ton Cataphract 5/8--26.5____4/6--41
  
• 80ton Awesome 5/8--12.5____4/6--42.5
  
• 85ton Stalker 4/6--42.5_____3/5--57.5
  
• 100ton Atlas 4/6--30.5_____3/5--60

Sorry if not all those number are exact. AND they could even be different since the devs might have tweaked some.
These are BEFORE XL engine....all the speeds will be higher MAX with a XL engine



Other side of it is Even if you take your 35ton jenner down to the speed of an Atlas (3/5) you would have 23 tons of free space. and a max armor value of 119..the Atlas has 60 tons left and max armor vaule of 307.

BUT at a point people will forgo personal preferance for "what definately works best"...So it will also be up to the devs to maintain a form of balance...
Obviously the only way to have "near perfect" balance (other than skill) is for there to be only 1 mech chassis, with 1 weapon in the entire game, on a flat lakebed, in a perfect circle, and I wouldn't play that game

Edited by Shadowscythe, 18 June 2012 - 05:12 PM.

[Shadowscythe]

Decided to do the conversion chart.

BattleTech TableTop speed------KPH MAX

• 3/5------54
  
• 4/6------64.8
  
• 5/8------86.4
  
• 6/9 -----97.2
  
• 7/11 ---118.8
  
• 8/12----129.6
  
• 9/14----151.2
  
• 10/15--162
  
• 11/17--can't think of an actual stock mech that is 11/17

If you can, would you look it up on sarna and post the KPH?

Sorry if those numbers aren't spot on. (for some reason tech readouts and Sarna like to have different KPH depending on chassis)

the 10/15 seems a bit low

Also these numbers could change in game of course

Edited by Shadowscythe, 16 June 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Muddball]

aren't their stock variants of the firemoth (yes i know i'm going clan, shut up) that have masc and get up that high?

[Alexander Caine]

Dasher/Firemoth is 10/15, 20 with MASC.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

The strenght of med mechs is speed. there are some med mech that are slow (see the hunchback here) but they tend to make up for it with a large weapon. Its the same idea as why people wont all be sitting in assualts. They are slow, they will never reach critical areas of the map first, they will never decide the tempo of an engagement as they will always be forced to fight at the other faster mechs distance and place. there are advantages already that are present no need to add anything to the weight classes. Pick which mech suits your style and play.

[Shadowscythe]

Muddball, on 18 June 2012 - 09:19 AM, said:

aren't their stock variants of the firemoth (yes i know i'm going clan, shut up) that have masc and get up that high?

Alexander Caine, on 18 June 2012 - 09:22 AM, said:

Dasher/Firemoth is 10/15, 20 with MASC.

Yes. I didn't bother listing clan or masc since clan isn't in game, and far as we know, neither is MASC

far as I know in BT TT you can get a 25 ton inner sphere mech (which a commando is) up to a 14/21 but that is just an XL engine in internal structure no armor or weapons and only .5 tons left lol (no ferro or endo)

Or, a 20 ton up to 15/23 with XL engine with 2.5 tons left (again, that weight is before armor and weapons...or ferro or endo )

Edited by Shadowscythe, 18 June 2012 - 10:36 AM.

[BFalcon]

There's a Cannonball mech that's around in 3055 that is 15/23 [30] and has MASC (although who'd want it with those speeds?). I just found it on Heavy Metal Pro - a 20 tonner. It's basically a suicide mech for penal units.

The Fireball ALM-7D is a much more conventional design and comes in at 11/17 - a Light mech designed for killing Elementals, found in the 3055 book I think. 1 SRM-1 and an MG...

Yet to find a medium that can attain that speed though...

[Shadowscythe]

BFalcon, on 18 June 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Yet to find a medium that can attain that speed though...

the fastest 50 ton stock I can think of that can get to the 7/11 speed without clan/masc (there is probably higher ones out there though)... stock medium mech called a Blitzkrieg http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Blitzkrieg ..50 tonner with just an ultra AC 20 kind of like a psycho hunchback with lasers (not in looks) I actually like the look more than the hunchback just because it is SO weird looking..it is 3060 so obviously won't be in game

there are plenty of 40 that get up to 7/11 and even 8/12 (that are stock)

But no, won't be finding any stock mediums getting up to 11/17 because the engines only go up to a 400 rating in BT TT (in tech 2)

Edited by Shadowscythe, 18 June 2012 - 11:02 AM.

[martius]

You are aware of the fact that a Fireball walks as fast a a Blitzkrieg can run at full speed, yes?

Edited by martius, 18 June 2012 - 10:52 AM.

[Shadowscythe]

martius, on 18 June 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

You are aware of the fact that a Fireball walks as fast a a Blitzkrieg can run at full speed, yes?

yeah, that was just the fastest 50ton stock that I could think of without being clan with masc.... I didn't say it could get up to 11/17

Also the big chart up top is before XL engines so they all can get bigger speeds..

Edited by Shadowscythe, 18 June 2012 - 11:19 AM.

[SMDMadCow]

martius, on 18 June 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

You are aware of the fact that a Fireball walks as fast a a Blitzkrieg can run at full speed, yes?

And a Fireball is a light mech.

[martius]

Jep. 20t, I know.

@Shadowscythe: Later you get quite a lot of 7/11 mediums: Lightray, Bloodhound, Legionaire ect.

Still, lights are obscenely fast- the 6M Locust. 14/21, 28 with MASC- or the ultralight Celerity Drone 'Mech: 16/24 (32).

Edited by martius, 18 June 2012 - 11:01 AM.

[Kobold]

Personally I really enjoy the faster medium mechs in table top, as long as you can keep their armor high. 5/8/5 or better with max armor lets you do a lot of damage, with enough mobility to get in behind opponents. WVR, GRF, LNX, CDA, all favorites of mine.

[Shadowscythe]

Yep, one of the BT TT moments I will never forget is when someone I knew took a dasher (clan mech with masc) and ran down a paved street went 19 hexes just to turn, skid 18 more hexes into an enemy mech... killing it....and did it on purpose (for the longer more detailed story it is at http://mwomercs.com/...ch-2nd-edition/ #18 second story )

But as for the Main point of this forum topic...the amount of module slots will be a MAJOR determining factor for me since (as far as I know) the only way to get more into a mech is through leveling the mech varrients up to max level a lot..


From Dev Blog 4

Edited by Shadowscythe, 18 June 2012 - 11:21 AM.