117 replies to this topic

[Grits N Gravy]

It wasn't necessarily premium tank in it of themselves that caused some problems for WOT. It was a combination of the matchmaking system and the number of people playing premium tanks. The first batch of prem tanks were really gimped for there level, they were ok for fighting tanks at your tier, but weren't very good for fighting things above their level. So they didn't sell that well.

The Lowe, Type 59 and H were pretty much equivalent to a fully upgraded tank in their tier. They weren't as dreadful to play as the Matilda and Churchill. This coupled with the credit incentive to play them caused their numbers to swell. Because the matchmaker tends to groups the same tanks together you got teams of 59's fighting teams of Lowes, and a few poor shlubs mixed in with their tier 6 tanks which couldn't hang with the prem boys. It's got so out of hand they had to take steps to try and reduce the number of people playing prems, by raising the price of the Lowe and the 59 was so common they chose not to sell it anymore. For awhile it was world of Type 59's

The lesson from that experience should not be overlooked. Having to stop selling a highly profitable item from the store because it negatively effects the experience of the game, is the sign of a poor design.

[CCC Dober]

The problems with the T59 and T54 weren't fixed for a very long time, leading to even more players jumping on the train called "if you can't beat them, join them". Thus generating even more profit for WG.

[Fortune]

From the looks of it, WoT suffers from how a paid player has a distinct advantage on the non-paid player either it's on certain tier, or just outright advantage. I don't think (or hope) MWO will suffer from that since there's no set of tiers for battlemechs. You pay cash for a mech because you can't be bother with saving up in-game currency to buy it. At the same time, if you don't want to pay, you still have access to said mech if you are willing to spend the time to grind up your ingame currency. And As long as they don't introduce "premium" mechs that only can be brought with real cash, the game won't suffer. Hell, I believe even if they have premium mech, it's still ok since battletech is somewhat balanaced well, that you can still beat those premium mech with something that's free to get if you have skills. Like in that NFS world MMO. They have cars that only can be brought with real cash. But since it's a racing game, performance of the car is not too important about winning. It's still solely depends on player's driving ability. Which I think MWO is also in the same boat.

[Charles Martel]

Lagoth, on 16 June 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure there isn't a light mech that can mount a Gauss rifle.

Uller and Hollander I come to mind. An Urbie probably could, but it'd be like the AC/20 Urbie, paper-thin armor.

Edited by Charles Martel, 16 June 2012 - 01:50 PM.

[CCC Dober]

The worst case is when you have capable players in capable premium "vehicles" and I think any player worth its salt can tell you that in WoT you have superior penetration and/or damage on both Löwe and T34 and an incredibly durable frontal armor on the T59. The same players can exploit these advantages to dominate standard Tier8 vehicles, such as KT, T32 and T44 to name a few. The argument that the Tier8 premiums are underpowered does not hold true in that case. Most players learn the trade after a while and make good use of the advantages at their disposal. It's just a matter of time when they become adapt at exploiting them to such a degree that their Premium Tier8 vehicles are in fact better than comparable standard vehicles.

[Death Mallet]

Pax Noctis, on 16 June 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

WoT pricing model == not good. Even though I'd probably pay 50 bucks for some awesome, premium mech (just like I did for the Lowe), I'm going to dislike you for it.

ROFL!!!!

I'm sure the devs/owners of Mechwarrior will have difficulty sleeping at night because you don't like them. . . even as they are putting their kids through college or paying their mortgages with your money. . . which you've just admitted you'll give them anyway. LOL

[Killless]

HoldinJohnson, on 16 June 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

When the Russian player-base asks for something, the devs quickly include it in the next patch. However (and you'll know about this if you've read the last dev Q&A) , when the North America players ask for a few things, most of which would make the game 10000000X better, the devs say that "We're not doing that" or "We're not planning to include that at this time."

What are you talking about? Russian players recently went to European forum to ask for support in buffing German tanks.
Why - because they believe devs don't listen to them but they listen to other "populations".
Well joke is on them! (and on you)
WoT devs listen to no one and Match Maker is a prime example. (92% of people said it should be 3 Tier/Level spread)

Also WoT Premium tanks are worse and not better then equivalent level tanks. They do help you earn credits faster.
They also get somewhat better matches.

Edited by Killless, 16 June 2012 - 02:17 PM.

[Bolo Nike]

I personally play World of Tanks and I have one thing to say about the subject, Let them come. It dosen't matter whether you have premium tanks or not, they aren't invincible or anything. My favorite pasttime is blowing higer-tier tanks (including premiums) in the face with the KV-2's DERP gun. The 152mm Cannon. A great quote I heard a player say is, "The tank dosen't matter, the driver behind the wheel does."

[PowerKill Necron]

I have no issues with WOT preimium tanks. I only play T4 tanks at preseant, but I have no problems with premium T5 tanks. The T14 used to give me fits until I learned it's weak spots and started to exploit them. WOT suffers from a terrible Matchmaker that punishes players of lower tiers because low tiers can't damage higher ones AT ALL. This is a problem MWO will not face since the weapons on that Atlas are the same as the ones on a Hunchback... the Atlas just carries more of them. As long as MWO stays away from Premium ammo, which would be totally P2W, then the WOT model should serve it fairly well.

Edited by PKNecron, 16 June 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[Bolo Nike]

PKNecron, on 16 June 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

I have no issues with WOT preimium tanks. I only play T4 tanks at preseant, but I have no problems with premium T5 tanks. The T14 used to give me fits until I learned it's weak spots and started to exploit them. WOT suffers from a terrible Matchmaker that punishes players of lower tiers because low tiers can't damage higher ones AT ALL. This is a problem MWO will not face since the weapons on that Atlas are the same as the ones on a Hunchback... the Atlas just carries more of them. As long as MWO stays away from Premium ammo, which would be totally P2W, then the WOT model should serve it fairly well.

Um sorry to have to correct but lower tiers can damage higher-tiered tanks. I personally killed a E-50/E-75, one of them anyways, with a Marder II's HE round. Something like a 6 teir difference. They damage regardless of armor. Now they may not do much but with only a 3 tier difference they will still do something.

[sakkaku]

Bolo Nike, on 16 June 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Um sorry to have to correct but lower tiers can damage higher-tiered tanks. I personally killed a E-50/E-75, one of them anyways, with a Marder II's HE round. Something like a 6 teir difference. They damage regardless of armor. Now they may not do much but with only a 3 tier difference they will still do something.

Maybe if he had like 10HP left. If you were to meet him at full health and you magically appeared in his rearquarters you could hammer at him for a good minute before managing to kill him because he has 1600+ health and you will do at most 100-200 damage per shot. Meanwhile he will rotate and shoot you with one bullet that will kill you instantly. If all tanks had the same HP it would be a slightly different matter.

[Bolo Nike]

Well that is true. I was not agruing the fact that i was a one-shot, just that lower tiers can do damage.

[krl2811]

Well I dont understand why are so many people annoyed by Premium tanks. I didn't spend any money in WoT and I got to tier 9(now 10 Is4) and tried bunch of other tanks. I got bored with game so now I only play test server and now and then couple of rounds.
Now what I dont like in WoT... well if I start writing you will all probably think I'm crazy since I played it so much but IMO Premuim tanks are not a problem.
Yes there a people who start game and then buy Lowe but trust me I've seen extremly bad Tiger,(H and P) Tiger 2, Is-3 T29, T32 and so on. All hight tier tanks and when I saw there stats i was shocked. Some dont understand that game at all....
Now what sucks In WoT.... well IMO there is too many tiers and there is big diffrence in tiers so that draws bad machmaking where you sometimes cant damge from the front 10 out of 15 tanks and you are a "heavy". Diffrent HP pool or removal of HP would fix that problem. Luckily MWO wont have tiers so wont have that problem.
Some grinds are very hard.... well actually annoying and long. Problem beeing tier system mostly so again, MWO no such problem
Spotting is stupid. That would work in some space game where they have sensors or radars but in this game it stupid. You really should use your eyes only.
There is probably more things I cant remember now but one most annoying thing in WoT (IMO offcourse) is randomness:
Random damage, penetreation, module damage, crew deaths, everything is so stupidly random. I dont know if im the only one who thinks that if first shot has 170 pen and second 230 is simply not right. Also you hit clear shot both times in the side once you get 315 dmg other 480. Sometimes your engine is destroyed sometimes not, sometimes gun, sometimes ammo rack, sometimes crewmember dies sometimes not.
I wouldn't mind if all shots destroy something but since they dont and you alredy have HP, whats the point of module damage.
Wouldn you will all be very pissed if when playing BF3 or COD or any other FPS that sometimes when you get hit in the chest area you die instantly since you get hit in the heart.
I know that how a lot of rpg work but WoT is shooter and shouldnt work this way


Sorry for my english, its not my first language.

Edited by krl2811, 16 June 2012 - 03:24 PM.

[Bolo Nike]

They have IDed the 'spots' to do module dmg in mods. They can be found otherwise as well so this is legal. As well certain places on the tanks do more damage and penetration can also effect that as well. On the other hand you are right krl2811 it is Very annoying to have different values. It is especially annoying when a DERP AP round penning 110 on average dosen't pen a T25 from the front with 88mm of armor.

[PowerKill Necron]

Bolo Nike, on 16 June 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Um sorry to have to correct but lower tiers can damage higher-tiered tanks. I personally killed a E-50/E-75, one of them anyways, with a Marder II's HE round. Something like a 6 teir difference. They damage regardless of armor. Now they may not do much but with only a 3 tier difference they will still do something.

Ok, so you can do a few points damage, but you can't do usefull damage. I use TD almost exclusively and have played many games in the Marder 2 which arguably has the best gun for it's tier of any tank, and it is very very difficult. I can kill a t14 from camo, but if he sees me I am dead. I once bounced 9 of 12 shots off a KV before he killed me (he was a terrible shot) and of the three that penned, one did 0 damage and the other 2 hit for maybe 150 points of damage total. He was at like 8% health when I first sptted him and I was at full, we were ~200 meters apart.. This kind of imbalance is rediculous considering the REAL Pak40 on the Marder 2 would have ripped that KV open like a bear can at that distance.

But, like I said that wound not happen in MWO; if I circle strafe an Atlas in a Jenner and there is no one else around and he can't hit me... he's toast.

[CarnieGrizz]

Nost ppl are pissed cause those said prem tanks they bought in most cases got nerphed after 7.2.. when they were dominating.. reason why they got nerphed was too many ppl cried and whined that they shredded most tanks they encountered... I remember when type-59's 1st came out... they killed most anything that they encountered.. now they are below thier original potential... and thats why most owners of the original types are frustrated... same goes for the KV-5

but in saying that... you get 3 types rolling down a field together they still kill whats in front of them.. pending on the skills of thier drivers..


Clan Leader of Das Drifus Brigatta

Edited by CarnieGrizz, 16 June 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Like I keep saying; the biggest problem this game is going to run into is people that scream "p2w" every time they put something in the cash shop

[KageRyuu]

My predictions for the game are these.

1. There won't be a second currency.

2. Because there won't be a second in game currency that means all things will be available to all players. (Founder Package may or may not be available at a later date but seeing as the only difference between a Founder Mech and normal mech is it's earning potential and skin, not really a game issue, more of a meta game issue.)

3. Because all things will be available to all players, the only thing left to spend money on is in game currency. (Which again is a meta game issue not an in game issue.)


Now of course you'll have people who scream P2W, but with this system how will they know if someone paid for something or earned it? After all, the Devs have already said to get the full potential out of a mech you'll have to play it, you won't be able to unlock modules with money only game play.

Edited by KageRyuu, 16 June 2012 - 06:14 PM.

[CarnieGrizz]

and that pretty much puts all on equal grounds... the only advantage is the skill of the mech operator... and luck.. as it should be

Edited by CarnieGrizz, 16 June 2012 - 06:26 PM.

[CarnieGrizz]

even a light mech can take down a heavy mech.. best way to take out a heavy or assault.... take the legs out... dont be stupid and aim at the chest... or if you got luck on your side... the cockpit. dead mech operator...