50 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Davers, on 05 November 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I still fail to see why we should put in a system that punishes light and medium mechs that rely on speed and sustained firepower over alpha strikers and snipers.

Lights don't rely on sustained firepower. They run, shoot a bit, and run off. If you stay in the fight for long, you give the enemy to much time to get his bearings and shoot back.

Lights also produce less heat in general, compared to heavier mechs. Depending on the trigger point for heat penalties, this can make a very big difference for them, as they take much longer to get into the "dangerous" heat areas then heavier mechs.

At least table-top style heat penalties to speed also tend to hit heavier mechs harder tha ligher mechs. The reduction in speed is
not percentage based, but an absolute value, if you drive 150 kp/h, losing 50 kp/h doesn't hit you as hard as losing 50 kp/h from 50 kp/h.

Also, a heavy mech that has its twist speed and range lowered and/or is reticule shaking from heat will have trouble hitting a light or medium mech.

[XtremWarrior]

Strange: TT seems to give penalty to mechs that run too hot for too long (as for the Awesome in the exemple).

Why didn't anyone propose some Heat Penalties that would trigger over time instead of just heat, ie: penalty level increase every 15 seconds above 50% of maximum heat, 7 sec above 70%, etc.
Wouldn't that translate into higher persistent damage and lower bursty ones? Even after shuting down, you would need to care not to suffer the penalties by re-firing and keeping you heat down.

Of course, high heat energy weapon could have their heat lowered then.
Just my own 0.02$ (so now we should be around a whole buck)

[Zarlaren]

You could alway sacrifice some firepower for a couple more heatsinks if your mech is melting from the inside.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Heat sinking system should be more similar to BT, it is more then obvious, In a place of strange half solutions like ghost heating. The most frustrating thing is that all tools to make it happen are in place. Just lack of will? Any PGI statement on this?
Thare should be 2 bars, blue one and red. Blue is a save level of heat that is sinked, pass that the red activate and penatlys depend on level. That simple and great. Why PGI? why not? Why not make a the greatest BT game.

Armor is dubled, lets decrease ROF to duble, BT heat sinking sistem and we would be on a right way.

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 07 November 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[General Taskeen]

It was a big mistake to put Canon Mechs in the game and design a system that made them less than functional. The system in even harkons to encouraging the use of different variant design, plucking them right out of technical readouts.

I mean hell, you can customize tanks in a game like World of Tanks... yeah its not 'complex' like Battle Tech, but you can buy the Tank and just play it how it is and it well, just works, that simple. You are even matched against the same or close level of gear. And many Tank "variants" are plucked straight out of history.

And of course, as always, before anyone says "herp derp stock Mechs were bad" need to consider that 1. This is a game. And 2. Its F2P. That last part is important. To encourage people to keep playing the game (especially new players) in their leisure time and well maybe they don't want to bother with customization or anything like that, at least the Mech should just WORK within the confines of a well developed system, whether it be the weapons it comes with or the nuanced "heat" of Mech Warrior games to use said weapons. I should also point out, that a good majority of stock mechs were not actually excessively hot, but very heat neutral, just with sometimes weak-sauce load-outs. But in MWO you can have a weak sauce loadout, but can barely use it... which goes back to the the flaws of the "heat system."

I tried getting some of my friends to play MWO. One them, who had NO knowledge of Battle Tech whatsoever, absolutely LOVED the loadouts on Stock Hunchbacks and always played the same variants. I taught them that they could customize it if they want, but they thought the weapons it came with were just fun to use, but usually got frustrated since he went up against players that slapped on DHS so he was always shutting down in his stock Mech and getting annihilated, but still got really good just trying to use the Mechs as-is. A rare example maybe, I don't know, but definitely happens. My friend also did not have the patience for grinding for gear, he just wanted to launch into games with me and couple others and shoot stuff while trying to win.

Another thing is you aren't really matched against same level gear in MWO, its just really pure random with your earned skill base of a Mech type. The Heat System also is not fixed as pointed out here and thousands of times, since each Mech can have a varying "heat cap" based on heat sink type, number of heat sinks, and unlocks. That right there is a huge flaw and mistake with the system. I can't even imagine how much work would need to be done to fix it all from scratch...

Edited by General Taskeen, 05 February 2014 - 07:24 PM.

[Stardancer01]

Battle Tech also had heat bonuses as well as penalties
As energy was diverted form the movement to weapons, the mechs fire power went up.
Some weapons functioned much better when hot, epically lasers whose’ damage and rate of fire power was boosted.

[stjobe]

Stardancer01, on 08 February 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Battle Tech also had heat bonuses as well as penalties
As energy was diverted form the movement to weapons, the mechs fire power went up.
Some weapons functioned much better when hot, epically lasers whose’ damage and rate of fire power was boosted.

The only piece of equipment I know that is affected positively by high heat is Triple Strength Myomer, which gives an extra 2 MP when the heat level is 9+ (and does nothing if the heat level is 8 or less).

I've never heard of lasers getting any boosts at high heat.

[Joseph Mallan]

stjobe, on 14 February 2014 - 04:34 PM, said:

The only piece of equipment I know that is affected positively by high heat is Triple Strength Myomer, which gives an extra 2 MP when the heat level is 9+ (and does nothing if the heat level is 8 or less).

I've never heard of lasers getting any boosts at high heat.

I don't remember it even in the advanced rules... Well TSM doubled the damage from Physical attacks... Which made a TSM wielded Mace a scary thing indeed.

[Cimarb]

Don't have time to catch up on the previous posts, but don't want to miss any more before I can!

I fully support this system, and think it would be extremely easy, and beneficial, to implement it.

[Exilyth]

Maxtech had a heat scale which went up to 50 points of heat, but the heat penalties > 30 were really evil.

[Shrike ski]

Davers, on 05 November 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

I still fail to see why we should put in a system that punishes light and medium mechs that rely on speed and sustained firepower over alpha strikers and snipers. The proposed changes would do nothing to Gauss, (U)AC/5s, AC/10s, Streaks compared to what it would do to medium laser boats like Cicadas and Hunchbacks. Is the 6 ML Cicada so terrifying that it needs to be nerfed? An AC/10 + 2 PPC set-up runs cooler than it with better heat management and precision damage. Movement penalties will be a huge hit to light and medium mechs and won't even be noticed by assault mechs. What energy based chassis is so overpowered that we need to implement a whole new system of punishing mechanics?

*Meant to say has a cooler alpha strike.

well actually the 6 medium laser cicada would run rather cool with 10 duel heat sinks, in tabletop anyway net heat per turn 0