157 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

[Dago Red]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Yes. that's the whole point. That was the playstyle they just flushed down the toilet.



<sigh>...

Really? You have to ask? Do you have to ask everyone about everything they do diferently from you? Do you? Seriously? Or maybe you ackowledge not everyone is the same as you? Or perhaps are at least AWARE of that... although, since you "have to ask" maybe you don't.

Just saying.



Apologies for calling you stupid. I retract my comment as well.



Golden Rule, Dago. If they revile others, then they themselves wish to be reviled and that is how I shall treat them. If they don't, I don't, etc.

I generally try to be more on the example end of the golden rule than the reactive one. Though admittedly sometimes people do get one in a position where it's time to trade in the carrot for the beating stick.

You just clearly have a lower threshold for that than I do.

Then again sometimes one can make the beating carrot work too. Make them look and feel bad while still keeping the high ground.

Edited by Dago Red, 05 November 2013 - 03:11 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 03:00 PM, said:

Really? You have to ask? Do you have to ask everyone about everything they do diferently from you? Do you? Seriously? Or maybe you ackowledge not everyone is the same as you? Or perhaps are at least AWARE of that... although, since you "have to ask" maybe you don't.

Just saying.


Golden Rule, Dago. If they revile others, then they themselves wish to be reviled and that is how I shall treat them. If they don't, I don't, etc.

Reverse order, that's not the Golden Rule. It also leaves no room for misunderstanding someone, kind of like you seem to have done with Zyllos. He asked a question, and you went off on him.

Apparently you aren't the kind of person who learns from others. I don't use that style, see no point in it, but wouldn't mind hearing why you use it. Might be far superior to what I've been doing and thus would be a good thing. Might be a horrible system, but either way I will learn something.

Either way, if this is normal behavior for you, I don't think you will wind up on my friends list anytime soon.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Zyllos, on 05 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I guess it doesn't matter one way or another...just figure I would ask because it's extremely confusing to me that someone would actually play that way.

Either way...

That's fair. As someone who tried to play it the way these folksincluding my partner in crime did - I tried this setup last year, and it was not natural to me because at that point I was used to using individually assigned buttons for weapon groups.

Now, flip that around - these people have no choice now, they either are forced to change how they play, which is a massively FRUSTRATING thing to do, or they have to stop playing. Maybe both. Either way, this is not healthy for a game that is already massively frustrating to force onto its users, many of whom are Founders who until now had at minimum a tolerance for PGI's antics, and many of whom (myself included) kept giving them money in the hopes PGI would turn around. Which, they have, kind of.

But this? There is no getting around it - many old timers with open hearts and open wallets may now no longer be able to play this game. Which also extends to their wallets. Look at how many posts some of the people here have - many have single digit post counts. These are people who until recently would at least muddle along with PGI's mess - now, they can't even do THAT, and they're being vocal about it.

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 November 2013 - 03:11 PM, said:

Reverse order, that's not the Golden Rule. It also leaves no room for misunderstanding someone, kind of like you seem to have done with Zyllos. He asked a question, and you went off on him.

Apparently you aren't the kind of person who learns from others. I don't use that style, see no point in it, but wouldn't mind hearing why you use it. Might be far superior to what I've been doing and thus would be a good thing. Might be a horrible system, but either way I will learn something.

Either way, if this is normal behavior for you, I don't think you will wind up on my friends list anytime soon.

Actually it does go both ways. It's not a one-way street. Also I did not "go off" on Zyllos, merely pointed out the flaw in his point of view. As for your friends list, doesn't bother me - as a predator-personality archetype the acceptance of the herd is inapplicable to me, at best, and always laughable. And no, you are definately a prey-archetype if you think I "went off" on Zyllos.

I will point out, I have nothing but respect for all members of DHB.

Dago Red, on 05 November 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

I generally try to be more on the example end of the golden rule than the reactive one. Though admittedly sometimes people do get one in a position where it's time to trade in the carrot for the beating stick.

You just clearly have a lower threshold for that than I do.

Then again sometimes one can make the beating carrot work too. Make them look and feel bad while still keeping the high ground.

It's not about threshold. I just take a two-way rule and apply it. Not always, just sometimes. And if you notice, neither Roadbeer, Sybreed, or I took it personally the way that you and Nick are, especially amusing since neither of you were actually involved.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 05 November 2013 - 03:22 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

That's fair. As someone who tried to play it the way these folksincluding my partner in crime did - I tried this setup last year, and it was not natural to me because at that point I was used to using individually assigned buttons for weapon groups.

Now, flip that around - these people have no choice now, they either are forced to change how they play, which is a massively FRUSTRATING thing to do, or they have to stop playing. Maybe both. Either way, this is not healthy for a game that is already massively frustrating to force onto its users, many of whom are Founders who until now had at minimum a tolerance for PGI's antics, and many of whom (myself included) kept giving them money in the hopes PGI would turn around. Which, they have, kind of.

But this? There is no getting around it - many old timers with open hearts and open wallets may now no longer be able to play this game. Which also extends to their wallets. Look at how many posts some of the people here have - many have single digit post counts. These are people who until recently would at least muddle along with PGI's mess - now, they can't even do THAT, and they're being vocal about it.



Actually it does go both ways. It's not a one-way street. Also I did not "go off" on Zyllos, merely pointed out the flaw in his point of view. As for your friends list, doesn't bother me - as a predator-personality archetype the acceptance of the herd is inapplicable to me, at best, and always laughable. And no, you are definately a prey-archetype if you think I "went off" on Zyllos.

I will point out, I have nothing but respect for all members of DHB.



It's not about threshold. I just take a two-way rule and apply it. Not always, just sometimes. And if you notice, neither Roadbeer, Sybreed, or I took it personally the way that you and Nick are, especially amusing since neither of you were actually involved.

Son, you are obviously not stupid, but you need to work on your personality. Attempting to belittle people in order to promote your own self-esteem is losing proposition.

Also, work on the internal consistency. You talk about predator/prey and dishing out what you receive, yet make no allowance for a "{Noble MechWarrior}" archetype, which if I took what you said personally as you say I did, would be what I was doing.

As it is, I just don't like people like you. If this were an un-moderated forum, then I would be happy to engage in some forum PvP with you as I that is an arena where I rarely lose.

Have fun, and hope to see you on the battlefield. Either side works for me!

[JORMUNGANDR MIDGARDSORMR]

I am one of the players that utilizes the now defunct option to select weapons groups and then fire them with one button, Mouse Button 1, as I found that it was more efficient for my playing style to do so. I am clearly not the only one who has enjoyed playing the game this way.

I do not see the need to have up to 6 different keys to fire up to six different weapons groups. I also use all 6 weapon groups for the majority of my mechs. When the game allowed us to use the mouse wheel I would use that to cycle through my weapons groups, but now use a thumbstick on a G13 to do that with decent efficacy.

What they have accomplished today is to nullify the use of the arrow keys to select weapons groups, albeit rebindable as all the other keys, and allow players to use one key to rule them all as it were. Now, we HAVE to use up to 6 independent keys to fire our weapon groups, regardless of how we select the groups and what keys we assign to select them. Again, whatever keys we choose, but still, 6 different keys. Perhaps others have done this up to this date and have no difficulty with this change. That is perfectly understandable and fortunate for you at this juncture. Furthermore, at this point there is no need to have selectable weapons groups apart from assigning weapons to them. Are these the next binds to vanish from the game or will they only be available in mechlab?

However, for those of us who have used another set of keys to do what we have felt was a more appropriate mapping for our playing style, we are now left to relearn how to use the basic funtionality of the simple task of firing our weapons in a first person shooter. For some of us, this style of play hearkens back to many years and games left in the dustbin of history. It is not an easy to task to undertake re-wiring your brain AND enjoy the process. Such a thing makes a game less enjoyable and even less entertaining.

I have already posted about this issue in the feedback thread in that section of the forums and have sent a support ticket. I hope that this issue will be addressed and I hope that this has shed some light on why this is not a welcome change to this game for many of us.

Edited by JORMUNGANDR MIDGARDSORMR, 05 November 2013 - 03:38 PM.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 November 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

Son, you are obviously not stupid, but you need to work on your personality. Attempting to belittle people in order to promote your own self-esteem is losing proposition.

Also, work on the internal consistency. You talk about predator/prey and dishing out what you receive, yet make no allowance for a "{Noble MechWarrior}" archetype, which if I took what you said personally as you say I did, would be what I was doing.

As it is, I just don't like people like you. If this were an un-moderated forum, then I would be happy to engage in some forum PvP with you as I that is an arena where I rarely lose.

Have fun, and hope to see you on the battlefield. Either side works for me!

Wasn't trying to belittle you, apologies if it came off that way. The mental archetypes I refer to are real-life personailty archetypes in psychology, so no "Noble / MW" one there, though that would be interesting to see defined. Anyways, <S>

[DjPush]

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 November 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I want to see an example of a mech that uses all 6 weapon groups. Maybe I've spent too much time in Lights, but I use a 3 button mouse with one set as zoom, and just use "3" to fire stuff like LRMs and I've occasionally thought a 4th button would be useful for heat management but hitting the chainfire button works.

Would you like screen shots of every mech I have to see the HUD? I make builds that handle every range. I group weapons based on heat they generate and range or type. Depends on how I want to use the mech. I can easily use all 6 weapons groups. Sadly though, I can only use 3 now...

[Nick Makiaveli]

I get what you are saying Jorm, but what kind of loadout do you typically have?

As a rule I use RMB for long range weapons, LMB for close range, and "3" (above W E) for LRMs. That way even different loadouts have a similar feel.

I don't have a single mech (13 currently owned, several others Basic/Elited) that I ever used 6 buttons etc. Note I am not dissing your style, or saying it won't be a pain to change, just trying to see what I am missing.

[JORMUNGANDR MIDGARDSORMR]

My playing style goes back many years and works well for me. I do not disparage others for how they play the game and what works for them even if how they play seems peculiar to me. I am certain that for every pilot who has a playing style that differs from mine, I have taken my fair share of mechtacular beatings to prevent me from judging their style unplayable. To answer your question from memory, as inaccurate as that gets with age, of my Ilya:

Weapons Loadoat: Two large lasers, one medium laser, twin UAC5s.

Group 1=Alpha
Group 2=UAC 5s set on Chain Fire
Group 3=Large Lasers
Group 4=UAC 5s/Large Lasers
Group 5=UAC 5s/Med Laser
Group 6=Large Lasers/Med Laser

Most of my mechs are a mix of weapons so I need to use all of the weapons groups for variations in range and placement on the mech, often considering height and side of mech and of course range. If you are peeking to the right of a building in a laser boat and want to minimize the damage you sustain to your mech, what good is it to have you left-sided weapons fire when you can have more precise control with an easily selectable weapon group? Same goes for armature and height, ability to freely aim with said arms and so forth. Range of course is considered as well as heat management.

Hope that helps.

[Toruk Makto]

Agree copleatly JORMUNGANDR MIDGARDSORMR.

Reading thrugh the patch notes about gamepaly changes i couldent help but giggle a little as i saw the bit about the key binding removal being caually chucked in between cool suff like shots generating seismic events (for those who have the seismic sensor module) like it was some flaw with the game that had to be removed.

Besides chagning or FORCING me to change the way i play the game what i find frustrating is WHY the developers removed this key binding.

I can not think of a reason to do this?

All it dose is take away choice.

Nick Makiaveli, on 05 November 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

I get what you are saying Jorm, but what kind of loadout do you typically have?

As a rule I use RMB for long range weapons, LMB for close range, and "3" (above W E) for LRMs. That way even different loadouts have a similar feel.

I don't have a single mech (13 currently owned, several others Basic/Elited) that I ever used 6 buttons etc. Note I am not dissing your style, or saying it won't be a pain to change, just trying to see what I am missing.

Your not "missing" anything. You play the game your way and if you are comfortable with that then there is no reason for changeing it.

But here is an example: I have a Jaggermech with 4 AC2's an two lazers. Two on the left and two on the right. i used to have the right ones in one group and the left ones in another. that way i could swich between the groups when peaking around corners without haveing one group fieing uslesly into a wall/cliff/whatever. in addition i had several other goupings all guns in one group.

Thats how i played tha game and now i dont't have that option anymore.

Edited by Toruk Makto, 05 November 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Nick Makiaveli]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Wasn't trying to belittle you, apologies if it came off that way. The mental archetypes I refer to are real-life personailty archetypes in psychology, so no "Noble / MW" one there, though that would be interesting to see defined. Anyways, <S>

No apology needed, as I am not the easily offended type, but it did come across that way. I am familiar with the archetypes you refer to, but was just tossing out a more familiar term, though I didn't realize that a knight who wears white was a censored term. Depending on whether we are talking personalities or disorders, the concept is someone who rushes to other people's defense, whether out of a sense of responsibility or irrational sense of justice etc. Been accused of it more than a few times, but I don't think that is one of my diagnosed issues. Maybe more like a "undocumented feature"

DjPush, on 05 November 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Would you like screen shots of every mech I have to see the HUD? I make builds that handle every range. I group weapons based on heat they generate and range or type. Depends on how I want to use the mech. I can easily use all 6 weapons groups. Sadly though, I can only use 3 now...

One or two links to Smurfy would work

I generally focus on two main weapon groups, like Long and Short range, or lasers and SRMs etc. I have no problem bundling SSRMs with my MLs for example, since without a lock they won't fire. Whereas SRMs can easily be wasted if I am just waving my lasers at someone to get their attention etc.

Again, I am not saying you system sucks, I am saying I don't use it, and haven't had a need for it. I am not a {Dezgra} who thinks if I don't use it, it must suck.

[Bolide]

I used pre-arranged weapon groups 1-6, then used the hat control on my joystick to select the appropriate group for the distance to my target. The joystick main trigger then fired the group.

With the removal of the "Fire Selected Group" I am no longer able to use my other joystick buttons for functions such as targeting, jump jets, zoom, coolant, ect.

I would like to see this feature added back in. Forcing us to play the game with a certain set of controls stinks, especially when many of us have been playing for over a year now.

Yes I know they have all kinds of neat controllers now, but I don't play on a gaming rig. I play on my PC that I have to use for other things as well, like work. If I wanted a gaming rig I'd buy a new gaming console, not a PC.

[Nick Makiaveli]

JORMUNGANDR MIDGARDSORMR, on 05 November 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

My playing style goes back many years and works well for me. I do not disparage others for how they play the game and what works for them even if how they play seems peculiar to me. I am certain that for every pilot who has a playing style that differs from mine, I have taken my fair share of mechtacular beatings to prevent me from judging their style unplayable. To answer your question from memory, as inaccurate as that gets with age, of my Ilya:

Weapons Loadoat: Two large lasers, one medium laser, twin UAC5s.

Group 1=Alpha
Group 2=UAC 5s set on Chain Fire
Group 3=Large Lasers
Group 4=UAC 5s/Large Lasers
Group 5=UAC 5s/Med Laser
Group 6=Large Lasers/Med Laser

Most of my mechs are a mix of weapons so I need to use all of the weapons groups for variations in range and placement on the mech, often considering height and side of mech and of course range. If you are peeking to the right of a building in a laser boat and want to minimize the damage you sustain to your mech, what good is it to have you left-sided weapons fire when you can have more precise control with an easily selectable weapon group? Same goes for armature and height, ability to freely aim with said arms and so forth. Range of course is considered as well as heat management.

Hope that helps.

*mutter cuss* crappy work PCs.

OK not going to type the whole thing again.

That makes perfect sense, and I have had wasted shots due to left side weapons etc. I think the main thing is I wouldn't be able to swap between that many presets and would probably drop the ML and have LL/AC as separate buttons and use a Alpha button for when needed.

Well I have no problem with them bringing it back unless they can show it was somehow detrimental

[Mercules]

DjPush, on 05 November 2013 - 03:42 PM, said:

Sadly though, I can only use 3 now...

[Roadbeer]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:16 PM, said:

Nice, I have something similar... but for us Joystick users, what's your suggestion there Sparky?

Change the way I've played Mechwarrior and sims for longer than most of the Fourmites have been alive?

Edited by Roadbeer, 05 November 2013 - 04:19 PM.

[Nation Uprise]

This style of selecting and firing weapon groups has been around since MW2. Hell, even MechAssault had it. Getting rid of this feature is like getting rid of Y-axis inversion. Not as many people use it, but its used nonetheless. This forces those who were accustomed to it to drastically change the way they played this game. If a game doesn't have Y-axis inversion (mostly shooters on consoles) I can't play it. It would take me forever to get comfortable with a normal Y-axis.

Its completely understandable to me that people would be angry at this being removed, after it being a useable feature for almost twenty years of MechWarrior. Unless you have a gaming mouse, firing more than 3/4(maybe 2) weapon groups isn't exactly easy anymore. The only workaround I can think of is finding software that while pressing a specific key, can change your mouse buttons to a different set of keys, that way 3 mouse buttons turn into 6. But for joysticks, this might be harder to do with less buttons. Better than a workaround is to put this feature back in PGI!

[Mercules]

Roadbeer, on 05 November 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

Nice, I have something similar... but for us Joystick users, what's your suggestion there Sparky?

Change the way I've played Mechwarrior and sims for longer than most of the Fourmites have been alive?

Your joystick has less buttons than the Naga Hex? I use a regular Naga, BTW and a Orbweaver keypad. I stopped using a Joystick back in the 90s. When I did I used Joystick and gaming mouse even back then not keyboard and joystick. That was too sloppy.

My point is that if people want to play PC games they might have to invest in the tools to play PC games. The mouse with 2 buttons and the simulated frog pond in base of it, or the $3 one that came with the new tower your ordered should probably be for internet browsing... if that.

[Roadbeer]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:27 PM, said:

Your joystick has less buttons than the Naga Hex? I use a regular Naga, BTW and a Orbweaver keypad. I stopped using a Joystick back in the 90s. When I did I used Joystick and gaming mouse even back then not keyboard and joystick. That was too sloppy.

My point is that if people want to play PC games they might have to invest in the tools to play PC games. The mouse with 2 buttons and the simulated frog pond in base of it, or the $3 one that came with the new tower your ordered should probably be for internet browsing... if that.

Um, 12 buttons on the joystick, 6 on the mouse, and a Nostromo, all used in MWO.

If you can come up with an even remotely logical reason for the removal of the Fire Selected Weapon Group keymap, I'd love to hear it.

[Sybreed]

Roadbeer, on 05 November 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

Nice, I have something similar... but for us Joystick users, what's your suggestion there Sparky?

Change the way I've played Mechwarrior and sims for longer than most of the Fourmites have been alive?

how is it to play mechwarrior with a joystick? I've always felt it would be 10x inferior in terms of aiming, but 10x superior in terms of immersion.

And I retracted my comment in my first post of the thread, sorry to the OP for calling you stupid. I really thought it was rebindable just like it was before.