157 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Roadbeer, on 05 November 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Um, 12 buttons on the joystick, 6 on the mouse, and a Nostromo, all used in MWO.

If you can come up with an even remotely logical reason for the removal of the Fire Selected Weapon Group keymap, I'd love to hear it.

Never said there was. I was pointing out a solution to their problem.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Never said there was. I was pointing out a solution to their problem.

Too bad it's not actually a solution to anyone's problem, eh? Not to mention the fact Razer's turning into a brand only fit to sell cow dung.

[Breeze]

Garth Erlam, on 05 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

• Removed the key binding option "Fire Selected Weapon Group". Mouse 1's (Left Click) default key bind is now "Fire Weapon Group 1", this can be remapped in the options screen.

I'm a little confused as I haven't patched yet (at work). But doesn't the patch notes also point out that you can remap it back to the original "Fire Selected Weapon Group" in the options screen?

[Mercules]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

Too bad it's not actually a solution to anyone's problem, eh? Not to mention the fact Razer's turning into a brand only fit to sell cow dung.

So... having 6 buttons you can easily hit instead of having to scroll between multiple groups with 2 buttons and hit a third is not a solution? So utilizing a tool to do in 1 click what takes you multiple clicks to accomplish... is not a solution?

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Breeze, on 05 November 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

I'm a little confused as I haven't patched yet (at work). But doesn't the patch notes also point out that you can remap it back to the original "Fire Selected Weapon Group" in the options screen?

It's two parts and that's what confuses people.

ONE - Fire Selected Weapon Group was REMOVED. Not made non-default, REMOVED.

TWO - Fire Weapon Group One / Left Mouse Button (LMB) is what can be re-mapped. Note that LMB cannot be re-mapped to Fire Selected Weapon Group because that option no longer exists.

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:41 PM, said:

So... having 6 buttons you can easily hit instead of having to scroll between multiple groups with 2 buttons and hit a third is not a solution? So utilizing a tool to do in 1 click what takes you multiple clicks to accomplish... is not a solution?

No, it is not a solution. All you're doing is asking people to make the same sacrifice of how they play, which will massively frustrate them as they relearn how to play the game a second time, a process that WILL take a lot of time and effort, and all for no reason.

On top of which you're telling them to buy a s*** mouse from a s*** brand. Insult to injury, est.

Edited by Sir Roland MXIII, 05 November 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Nation Uprise]

What I'd like to know is how this was negatively affecting the game, so much that It needed to be removed? If it was to make it easier for new players to understand, then at least change its location in the list to the bottom and have it unbound. Or better yet, make an "Basic" controls list with a condensed list of keys and an "Advanced" controls list with everything, to lessen confusion. I don't get why it had to be taken out.

[Toruk Makto]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

Never said there was. I was pointing out a solution to their problem.

the problem is that because the keymapfeature is removed from the game players are forced to change their playstyle when they don't want to.

Suggesting another way to play the game is not a solution.

Suggestion other "tools" to be invested in to play the game is not a solution.

Reading thrugh the posts in this thread i find several good reasons why the kemap should be there and no good reason why it should not. I don't see a reason why there should be a fixed number of ways playing this game requiering "tools" to do so.

[espritjaeger]

I just had an interesting thought... is the button removal somehow related to PGI trying to limit or get rid of macros? I can't figure out any other reason why it would be removed. Until some sort of official reasoning comes out.... I'll wait to see more conspiracy theories.

[Mercules]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

On top of which you're telling them to buy a s*** mouse from a s*** brand. Insult to injury, est.

You realize there are about 9 other companies that make gaming mice with multiple buttons, right?

I'm sorry, if you can't go from click button A twice and B once to fire group 3 to Click button 3 to fire group 3... Um... I have no words.

Yes, they shouldn't have removed it, but even with it in the game you would be better off using a mouse that would allow you to easily fire different weapon groups instantaneously, or even multiples of them at once, than having to rotate between weapon groups. I can hold down a mouse button with my thumb to keep tag toggled on(I don't always want it on giving away my position) as well as fire groups 1,2, 3(which is where I tend to put Tag), 5 all at once. I can then have 4 as a chainfire group which I can instantly switch to while still using 1 and 2 freely.

It is literally more efficient than having multiple groups you utilize singularly.

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

It is literally more efficient than having multiple groups you utilize singularly.

For you it is. Not for them. Which you don't seem capable of wrapping your head around.

[Mercules]

Toruk Makto, on 05 November 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

the problem is that because the keymapfeature is removed from the game players are forced to change their playstyle when they don't want to.

Suggesting another way to play the game is not a solution.

Suggestion other "tools" to be invested in to play the game is not a solution.

Reading thrugh the posts in this thread i find several good reasons why the kemap should be there and no good reason why it should not. I don't see a reason why there should be a fixed number of ways playing this game requiering "tools" to do so.

Problem: I can't play the game without X.
Solution: Y allows you to do everything X did... better.

Um???


Should they have removed the option. I don't think so either. However I honestly believe that setup to be extremely clunky and was offering an alternative that might actually work better for them. Shame on me. I am an evil evil person for mentioning alternatives. No... only one resolution.

[Clit Beastwood]

Roland, on 05 November 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

1) It seems like the OP's original control scheme is terribad. Like, crazy inefficient. But, whatever. Some people play with steering wheels.
2) Ignoring #1, I still don't really see a reason for why the original binding was removed. Given that, presumably, at least one guy used it, it really should have been left in. Perhaps don't make it auto bound to mouse button one, but at least give folks the option to bind it to something if they want.

holy {Scrap} I'm going to go home and try playing with my old usb steering wheel haha - its going to be terribawesome

[DirePhoenix]

This reminds me of one of my old friends. He claims to love FPS's but refuses to buy them for consoles because "it ain't right - Shooters need to be on the PC", but then refuses to buy them for the PC because "they're all made for that stupid WASD control scheme instead of the arrow keys like they should be" (and no, he's not left-handed, it's because that's the way it was when we played Doom and Castle Wolfenstein). He is now what I refer to as a "Gaming Dinosaur". The world has changed around him, and he has refused to evolve with it and adapt, and now only takes part in gaming indirectly. I honestly don't know why he even bothers keeping up with games he will never play.

[Mercules]

Sir Roland MXIII, on 05 November 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

For you it is. Not for them. Which you don't seem capable of wrapping your head around.

Correct, because logic dictates that a single click to fire a weapon group is more efficient than clicking to scroll to a different weapon group followed by a click to fire it.

One click... 2+ clicks...

[Roadbeer]

Sybreed, on 05 November 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

how is it to play mechwarrior with a joystick? I've always felt it would be 10x inferior in terms of aiming, but 10x superior in terms of immersion.

And I retracted my comment in my first post of the thread, sorry to the OP for calling you stupid. I really thought it was rebindable just like it was before.

It was hard to get used to at first because of MWO's abysmal Joystick support, but there are some things you can change in the .cfg to make it quite responsive, not mouse level, but close.

Thing is, being left handed, it worked MUCH better than a mouse for me, but I would switch to the mouse for sniping, for straight up brawling, it **WAS** a blast.

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Correct, because logic dictates that a single click to fire a weapon group is more efficient than clicking to scroll to a different weapon group followed by a click to fire it.

One click... 2+ clicks...

It **WAS** even easier than that. Nostromo on the left hand, key 13/14 toggle weapon group left/right, pull trigger (joystick) to fire. Just feels natural. And yes, many of us use more than 2 or 4 weapon groups. I have a couple builds that use all 6.

Like has been said, I have to relearn 20 years of gaming to accommodate a bone head decision? No thanks.

Edited by Roadbeer, 05 November 2013 - 05:13 PM.

[espritjaeger]

On many mechs, I have a primary weapons group, a secondary weapons group, and a third weapons group, all with unique weapons assigned. For example, on a centurion, I a center torso LL, a right arm AC/10 and 3 SRM2's. Left click to fire the AC/10, right click to shoot LL, click on scroll wheel to fire missiles. The thing is, my aim is much more steady with my left click and a lot less steady with my scroll wheel click, so when I lose my AC/10, I left arrow to my weapons group 6, which is setup to fire my missiles. This way, my missiles become my primary set, and I don't lose time/accuracy trying to aim and shoot with my scroll wheel click. I can surely adapt to the new settings, but I will also lose some aiming/timing efficiency when I have no choice but to use my "non dominant click".

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Correct, because logic dictates that a single click to fire a weapon group is more efficient than clicking to scroll to a different weapon group followed by a click to fire it.

One click... 2+ clicks...

LMAO at you kid... speaking of buttons and clicks, the old system was one trigger, the new PGI enforced system is six. Guess logic and counting aren't a strong point for you.

Oh and btw if you're going to whine about being villified for offering a sugggestion (LOL at that!) shame on me, etc, then leave. You've hit the top level on "drama queen", so you can go now. If you stay, at least try to act like an adult and try to understand when people explain to you why you are completely wrong.

[Toruk Makto]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Problem: I can't play the game without X.
Solution: Y allows you to do everything X did... better.

Um???


Should they have removed the option. I don't think so either. However I honestly believe that setup to be extremely clunky and was offering an alternative that might actually work better for them. Shame on me. I am an evil evil person for mentioning alternatives. No... only one resolution.

"If it aint broke don't fix it"

This is not a job or the army or a factory where eficiency and pruductivity is key. This is a computer game called Mechwarrior online.

Games are made to be fun. Thats why they are called games. i dont care how clewer your way of doing things are how many spreadsheets you have to prove your right. Or how mean i am by not embraceing your way of doing things.

[Roadbeer]

Destined, on 05 November 2013 - 05:27 PM, said:

Woah k let's get back on topic here please

Apologizing in advance Destined, miSs, Niko...

This *MAY* have me feeding myself quite a bit of cake.

[DemonRaziel]

Mercules, on 05 November 2013 - 05:04 PM, said:

Correct, because logic dictates that a single click to fire a weapon group is more efficient than clicking to scroll to a different weapon group followed by a click to fire it.

One click... 2+ clicks...

Do you always do everything the best possible - the most efficient, as perceived globally - way, or do you sometimes find out that something works out better for you than it does for the majority? I also am not affected too much by this, but understand the frustration of some posters.

First of all, some people are simply used to the old "choose a weapon, then fire it" way most FPSs since Wolfenstein use to work. They are simply unhappy they need to change their playstyle due to a pointless mechanical change in controls.

Secondly, more efficient or not, you forget that before this patch you were able to combine the best of both worlds - use weapon group buttons for the first 2-3 weapon groups and cycle trough the remaining and shoot with the use of the "fire current weapon group" button.

You don't need to have too many weapons to need several weapon groups. With just quad AC2s, for example, you can have a right hand group, left hand group, plus group fire and chain fire groups. Add some back-up weapons to the build and we're looking at 5 weapon groups to utilize.

Suggesting to buy a gaming mouse some people may be unwilling or unable to procure is like telling kids in Africa to stop starving and go get some food (a stretch, I know, but still).

Edit: typos

Edited by DemonRaziel, 05 November 2013 - 06:11 PM.