39 replies to this topic

[Troutmonkey]

[EDIT]: Added new suggestions to poll

Simple suggestion, one which I've mentioned before but I thought I'd create a poll to get a feel for other peoples response to it.

Basically Capping in Assault could work like this:

1. You stand on the point to cap, multiple mechs cap faster, but the speed is increased in a non-linear and diminishing way with each extra mech increasing the cap speed slightly less than the last one.(for example 1 mech will cap at 1x, two mechs at 1.8x, three mechs at 2.4x etc). Base cap speed will be slightly higher than it is now (can be tweaked).

2. When there are no mechs on cap, the cap immediately returns to full capacity, and must be recapped from scratch.

3. If anyone on the cap point recieves damage from an opponent, the cap resets to full capacity.

4. Friendly mechs standing in cap do nothing, they must damage a capper.

5. Because capping would essentially become much more difficult, the reward for capping should be increased.

Basically this does a few things. It means that clever players can still flank around and cap, but they must plan thier attack in such a way that the defenders cannot make it back in time.
It also means that near the end of a match players can still cap instead of chasing down that rogue spider. If you go to cap and there's people left in the fight, then you'll likely have to fight.

In the case of many a River City match, teams will often pass each other and then pile up on the caps. Now, it will actually be worthwhile returning to your base to defend it, as you only need to damage a mech on cap. Right now your forced to basically put your entire team on the point to cap race. If you send mechs back to defend they will likely die and you will have less mechs to cap with.

This works very similar to how capping works in World of Tanks, and seems to be a great way to stop cap rushers ending a game too early.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 09 November 2013 - 05:23 PM.

[Sarthax]

Your method makes capping impossible unless there is no opposition. One light mech remaining can prevent a cap win by resetting timer by shooting at a capper and running off again. All this does is serve to draw the game out and will allow one mech to defend against many. No one will commit more than 1 mech at a time to defense if that's all it takes. This also puts teams without lights at a severe disadvantage on defense. You can also "Defend" from over 1000 meters with long range weapons. That's not right.

Pretty complicated. Friends and I like to "Keep It Simple Stupid".

Cannot start capping unless 50% of eitehr team have been eliminated AND/OR a certain period of time has elapsed(say 5 minutes). This removes early capping but still allows it for when you have a clear superiority or time is running down and enemy is evading you on large maps. this also then draws the focus on the "Assault" portion of the Assault mode with capping as the fall back and not primary method of winning but as a backup.

[Randalf Yorgen]

Just make the Cap point a Dropship with APU's and defensive weapons. Start taking out the APU's (Dropship calls for help) and when all are destroied the weapons are silenced but make it so a Locust or Raven would have a hard time getting the APUs, not impossible but hard. Problems solved.

[Zarlaren]

I vote no cause this would make it near impossible to cap.

My suggestion list to fix the issue is.

1.) Put capping rewards in to give cappers a c-bill capping reward for capping enemy base.
2.) Increase Base health by 50%.
3.) Bases have four defense turrets with moderate health that can be destroyed.
4.) Base has weapons to shoot at you and must ether endure or destroy the bases weapons.
5.) Replace the drill platform base to a dropship base with weapons.

Edited by Zarla, 06 November 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[Voivode]

I like the original idea and Randalph Yorgen's. I think the latter idea might be better given that it would differentiate this game from WoT and others by utilizing something unique to Battletech.

[Fabe]

I don't know about putting a fully operational dropship on the map as a replacement for the current oil rig base in assult. The smallest dropship I can find able transporting a company (12 mechs) is the Union class dropship. Its armed with 3 PPCs,6 A/C 5s, 5 LRM 20s.12 medium lasers and 5 large lasers. That is a lot of fire power,maybe even too much for 12 mechs to handle. Plus it weights 3600 tons ,is 81 meters long and just as wide and is 78 meters tall. where will you fit it on some maps?

Edited by Fabe, 06 November 2013 - 07:13 PM.

[Troutmonkey]

Sarthax, on 06 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Your method makes capping impossible unless there is no opposition.

That's almost the point. Capping is meant as a way to end games where you would otherwise have to chase a light for minutes

Sarthax, on 06 November 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

One light mech remaining can prevent a cap win by resetting timer by shooting at a capper and running off again. No one will commit more than 1 mech at a time to defense if that's all it takes. This also puts teams without lights at a severe disadvantage on defense. You can also "Defend" from over 1000 meters with long range weapons. That's not right.

If you leave only one mech to defend, it will likely get crushed by a strong attack. Conversely your attack lance will also be weakend by leaving a mech to defend. People will actually bother to return and defend now on maps where they can get back to base relatively quickly. Whats better? For each team to pile onto cap because they know there's no way to stop the others cap in time? Or for a single mech to strategically stop the enemy from capping long enough for a stronger force to return and then engage in Mech-to-Mech combat?
It still doesn't stop a dumb team from leaving thier base undefended on Alpine, but that's perfectly fine.

Edited by Troutmonkey, 07 November 2013 - 04:26 AM.

[Wu Jen]

Simple fix, make it so the cap cannot be captured for the 1st 5 minutes of the match. After that its your fault if they manage to capture it.

[Joseph Mallan]

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

Simple suggestion, one which I've mentioned before but I thought I'd create a poll to get a feel for other peoples response to it.

Basically Capping in Assault could work like this:

1. You stand on the point to cap, multiple mechs cap faster, but the speed is increased in a non-linear and diminishing way with each extra mech increasing the cap speed slightly less than the last one.(for example 1 mech will cap at 1x, two mechs at 1.8x, three mechs at 2.4x etc). Base cap speed will be slightly higher than it is now (can be tweaked).

2. When there are no mechs on cap, the cap immediately returns to full capacity, and must be recapped from scratch.

3. If anyone on the cap point recieves damage from an opponent, the cap resets to full capacity.

4. Friendly mechs standing in cap do nothing, they must damage a capper.

5. Because capping would essentially become much more difficult, the reward for capping should be increased.

Basically this does a few things. It means that clever players can still flank around and cap, but they must plan thier attack in such a way that the defenders cannot make it back in time.
It also means that near the end of a match players can still cap instead of chasing down that rogue spider. If you go to cap and there's people left in the fight, then you'll likely have to fight.

In the case of many a River City match, teams will often pass each other and then pile up on the caps. Now, it will actually be worthwhile returning to your base to defend it, as you only need to damage a mech on cap. Right now your forced to basically put your entire team on the point to cap race. If you send mechs back to defend they will likely die and you will have less mechs to cap with.

This works very similar to how capping works in World of Tanks, and seems to be a great way to stop cap rushers ending a game too early.

Dude, Just go back and defend your base. If you cannot accept the >15% cap occurrence, check your expectations of what military Ops look like.

A 4 man fire team killed a 36 man Platoon(in their sleep)(4 squads of 12- Listening post guards IIRC). When we killed the Lt. he just said, "Very good. Carry on." We had snuck by their patrols & listening posts. dropped into their trench line and used a red sharpie to slit their throats. To fight the patrols and LPs allows the enemy to get prepared for the actual attack. Sure its fun and all, Wholesale slaughter's a blast, But sometimes being a sneaky Bustard can be very fulfilling too! Being able to snicker and tease 1st platoon on the way back to base was priceless.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 November 2013 - 04:51 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

make it a targetable object with a significant number of hit points.

problem solved.

[Training Instructor]

I don't like the idea of taking one point of damage resetting the cap to full. If there are two or three of your team left, and you're capping, the ER-large spider will just troll you from 1100m with no intention of ending the match.

I like the idea of making it very difficult to win by cap if you haven't killed a significant number of the enemy team. My reasoning as a History major is that there have been very few battles won by inferior forces who captured some random logistics base while leaving a strong, intact, superior enemy force on the field, with less than four minutes of travel time in between them.

Edited by Training Instructor, 07 November 2013 - 05:58 AM.

[Thumper3]

The poll is missing an option.

Where is the Defend Your Base from Cap choice?

And no, that doesn't mean leaving 1 mech at base standing in the square "defending" it, that is ridiculous. First, you don't know if there is a cap threat and you just lost one mech on the battlefield. Second, if there is a significant cap threat and multiple enemy mechs show up, that one mech is going to do nothing to "defend" the base.

Defending your base involves strategies to identify, anticipate, and respond to cap threats. Scouts need to do their job of scouting and finding enemy forces including the enemy scouts. You have to pay attention to the cap bar and what you already know. If you have 7 enemy heavies and assaults pinned down around a corner, reports of a couple mediums 3 grids away and the cap bar is going slowly, then it's probably 1 or 2 light mechs forcing a strategy. If you have no CLUE where half the enemy is and the bar is dropping fast, there are probably numerous mechs on your base and a full response may be needed.

Etc, etc, etc........

I know, tactics are OP.

[Voivode]

Maybe just increase the time it takes to cap so it's relative to the size of the map. The "defend your base option" creates some boring matches because then both teams never leave base on Alpine because return is just impossible. Capping is a poor mechanic if it's a static timer that doesn't take into account the distances on a map.

The heck is even in those little drill jobbers that's so important anyways?

[Color Blotch]

The only way to fix Assault is to replace it with a more sensible game mode.

Voivode, on 07 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

The heck is even in those little drill jobbers that's so important anyways?

Bacon. Bacon extends life. Bacon expands consciousness. Bacon is vital to space travel. The Spacing Guild and its navigators, who bacon has mutated over four-thousand years, use bacon, which gives them the ability to fold space. That is, travel to any part of the Universe without moving.

Edited by Color Blotch, 07 November 2013 - 11:38 AM.

[Farix]

I'm not going to vote in the poll as it suggest that I am completely for all the suggestions in thier entirety or I am completely against it. However, things aren't always that black or white.

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

1. You stand on the point to cap, multiple mechs cap faster, but the speed is increased in a non-linear and diminishing way with each extra mech increasing the cap speed slightly less than the last one.(for example 1 mech will cap at 1x, two mechs at 1.8x, three mechs at 2.4x etc). Base cap speed will be slightly higher than it is now (can be tweaked).

I'm all for changing the capture rate. I don't think that having more mechs on a capture point should increase the capture rate by any significant margin. My personal preference would simply have a x1 rate and apply any bonus for a single capture accelerators present. That team of 4 lights with capture accelerators won't be as big of a problem as before.

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

2. When there are no mechs on cap, the cap immediately returns to full capacity, and must be recapped from scratch.

Somewhat support this, though I would suggest that the capture bar doesn't reset until 10 seconds after the enemy mech leaves. The exact time can be adjusted depending on need or map. But there there are any friendly mechs in the base zone, it automatically goes up with a "base savior" bonus.

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

3. If anyone on the cap point recieves damage from an opponent, the cap resets to full capacity.

Not sure if I can agree with that, in part, if you are capping, you should still be able to defend your position. But I do think that any enemy mech fired upon within the base zone should receive a bonus for base defense.

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

4. Friendly mechs standing in cap do nothing, they must damage a capper.

Cannot support this. It's the chief way of saving the base and to counteract #3 above. See also my comment in #1 for the "base savior" bonus.

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

5. Because capping would essentially become much more difficult, the reward for capping should be increased.

Increased? There should be a reward in the first place.

Edited by Farix, 07 November 2013 - 06:57 PM.

[Sandpit]

Poll is biased and assumes you think capping is "broken"

Add an option: I don't think it needs to be "fixed" since it isn't "broken"

[Troa Barton]

5 minute grace period
multiple hit boxes (4-6 around the base) that need to be destroyed in order to allow capping
light automated destroyable defense 2-4 ac 2's for example that reward the players damaging/destroying them
natural barricades around base that prevent sniping the base and limit the range of the base's defenses larger area on larger maps
slightly faster cap time 10%~

[Fabe]

Voivode, on 07 November 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

The heck is even in those little drill jobbers that's so important anyways?

Thet're drilling for a mineral called germanium which is a key metal used in Hyperspace jump engines.

Edited by Fabe, 07 November 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[Zerberus]

Easy 3 step solution to all capping problems for most players:

1. Learn patience
2. Wait for the Incoming DM mode
3. leave the assault and conquest queues forever and go play the desired hulk smash robots hawken-simulator.

Seriously, enough with the "change assault /stop capping" chuffa... The asault blob already got their way once, in the process completely ******* up conquest for single lights in the process, and to this day not one of them has even attempted to rtb to defend, just continued the assault blob circle jerk.


I propose to set the cap times to the median value of before and now as soon as DM is out, because then the whiners won`t have to worry about it anymore.

They`ll be too busy writing threads about how the last mech on the enemy team needs some sort of huge, brightly colored, blinking marker 200m over it`s head so they can find it even when it`s shut down on the other side of the map.

Edited by Zerberus, 08 November 2013 - 03:14 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Troutmonkey, on 06 November 2013 - 03:55 AM, said:

Simple suggestion, one which I've mentioned before but I thought I'd create a poll to get a feel for other peoples response to it.

Basically Capping in Assault could work like this:

1. You stand on the point to cap, multiple mechs cap faster, but the speed is increased in a non-linear and diminishing way with each extra mech increasing the cap speed slightly less than the last one.(for example 1 mech will cap at 1x, two mechs at 1.8x, three mechs at 2.4x etc). Base cap speed will be slightly higher than it is now (can be tweaked).

2. When there are no mechs on cap, the cap immediately returns to full capacity, and must be recapped from scratch.

3. If anyone on the cap point recieves damage from an opponent, the cap resets to full capacity.

4. Friendly mechs standing in cap do nothing, they must damage a capper.

5. Because capping would essentially become much more difficult, the reward for capping should be increased.

Basically this does a few things. It means that clever players can still flank around and cap, but they must plan thier attack in such a way that the defenders cannot make it back in time.
It also means that near the end of a match players can still cap instead of chasing down that rogue spider. If you go to cap and there's people left in the fight, then you'll likely have to fight.

In the case of many a River City match, teams will often pass each other and then pile up on the caps. Now, it will actually be worthwhile returning to your base to defend it, as you only need to damage a mech on cap. Right now your forced to basically put your entire team on the point to cap race. If you send mechs back to defend they will likely die and you will have less mechs to cap with.

This works very similar to how capping works in World of Tanks, and seems to be a great way to stop cap rushers ending a game too early.

Aye it works in WoT quite well, however I think you'd need to have some kind of cover -better than the mining drill, else as others have stated it's be too easy to stop the cap. The assault mode could risk ending up losing the assault part and becoming team death match.
Maybe the cap points could be reset by how much damage is inflicted? Large laser for example knocking it back 9pts, that way it might prevent one light trolling the base cap?