41 replies to this topic

[ColonelMetus]

sup bros, so im leveling my battler master 1 D that has 3 AC 2.

i have group 1 as 3 AC 2 on group fire.

i have group 3 as 3 AC 2 on chain fire.

so today i fired both group one and 3 at the same time and i went to 98% heat after the 3rd shot.
i was like wtf? so i tryed it again and same thing.

this seems to be a crippling bug

[Vodrin Thales]

ColonelMetus, on 30 October 2013 - 01:05 PM, said:

sup bros, so im leveling my battler master 1 D that has 3 AC 2.

i have group 1 as 3 AC 2 on group fire.

i have group 3 as 3 AC 2 on chain fire.

so today i fired both group one and 3 at the same time and i went to 98% heat after the 3rd shot.
i was like wtf? so i tryed it again and same thing.

this seems to be a crippling bug

Not a bug. Due to the way ghost heat works you cannot chain fire more than 2 AC2's. Why would you ever want to chain fire 3 of them anyways? Just reduce you rate of group fire if you are running hot.

[Ghost_19Hz]

Unfortunately its not a bug. You have to alpha ac2's together every shot if you want to effectively use them without ghost heat.

[MustrumRidcully]

Here is the explanation: http://mwomercs.com/...an-explanation/

Yes, it's weird. But I am afraid everything that we can say on the topic has been said, really. Will something happen of it?

Time will tell.

[AC]

Can we just kill Ghost Heat yet? Talk about poor new user experience! sheesh!!!!

[Chronojam]

Note that if you chainfire AC\2 you get higher heat and if you alpha-strike AC\20 you get higher heat. This is documented nowhere ingame. Working as intended, glad you're confused, here are some charts and graphs to help you out:




Those of us who have been playing for a while call it "Ghost Heat" and it's designed to either stop griefers, encourage chainfire, encourage alpha striking, reduce pinpoint damage, reduce sandpapering, discourage sniping, discourage brawling, or improve your gas mileage depending on who you ask.

Spoiler

First, a little clarification:
- You do not have to wait for a weapon's cooldown cycle to fire again to avoid heat scale. The amount of time you have to wait is 0.5 seconds.
- The heat scale is a curve. The multiplier provided in the previous chart move that curve up and down on a graph (which will be detailed below).

Heat Scale - The Maths:
The numbers you really want: Weapons Fired 0-1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Heat Scale 0.00 0.08 0.18 0.30 0.45 0.60 0.80 1.10 1.50 2.00 3.00 5.00


Base Heat Scale Graph:


Case Study - 4 PPC Stalker:


SCENARIO 1
Player fires 2 PPCs.
Player recieves 0.00 heat penalty as Max Free Alpha is set to 2.

SCENARIO 2
Player fires 3 PPCs.



This is 1 PPC beyond Max Free Alpha.
Step 1, look up the 3rd weapon fired number in the Heat Scale table. This is 0.18.
Step 2, calculate base heat from 3 PPCs. 3 * 8 heat = 24 base heat.
Step 3, Add the extra heat for the number of weapons fired beyond Max Free Alpha multiplied by the Heat Penalty.
Step 3a, Heat Penalty = Heat Scale * Multiplier = 0.18 * 7.0 = 1.26
Step 3b, Multiply heat penalty by the base heat value for the number of weapons beyond Max Free Alpha. 1 extra weapon fired. Additional Heat = 8.0 * (1.26) = 10.08
Step 4, Sum base heat and additional heat. 24 base heat + 10.08 = 34.08 heat.

SCENARIO 3
Player fires 4 PPCs.



This is 2 PPCs beyond Max Free Alpha.
Step 1, look up the 4th weapon fired number in the Heat Scale table. This is 0.30.
Step 2, calculate base heat from 4 PPCs. 3 * 8 heat = 32 base heat.
Step 3, Add the extra heat for the number of weapons fired beyond Max Free Alpha multiplied by the Heat Penalty.
Step 3a, Multiply heat penalty by the base heat value for the number of weapons beyond Max Free Alpha. 2 extra weapons fired. Each heat calculation for the extra weapons are compounded. (8*(0.18*7.0))+(8*(0.30*7.0)) = 26.88
Step 4, Sum base heat and additional heat. 32 base heat + 26.88 = 58.88 heat.



Feedback can be added http://mwomercs.com/...eedback-thread/

[OneEyed Jack]

Chronojam, on 30 October 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

Those of us who have been playing for a while call it "Ghost Heat" and it's designed to either stop griefers, encourage chainfire, encourage alpha striking, reduce pinpoint damage, reduce sandpapering, discourage sniping, discourage brawling, or improve your gas mileage depending on who you ask.

You forgot lower cholesterol and raise blood pressure.

[Lil Cthulhu]

Vodrin Thales, on 30 October 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Why would you ever want to chain fire 3 of them anyways?

[Bagheera]

PythonCPT, on 30 October 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

Unfortunately its not a bug. You have to alpha ac2's together every shot if you want to effectively.

FTFY.

The triple-deuce is meant to be group-fired, not chain-fired. A chain fired triple-deuce is doing it wrong, even without ghost heat. A bunch of us kept trying to explain this to everyone who complained about macro-fired AC2s, while very cool sounding/looking, they put down less effective damage when used like that.

Edited by Bagheera, 30 October 2013 - 02:39 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

If you want to chainfire AC2s without ghost heat, just shoot 1 AC2. It's the same thing. 0,5 sec chain-fire delay or 0.52 sec cooldown.

[Amsro]

3 ac/2 = 12 DPS

NEVER Chain Fire.

[focuspark]

... wait, chain-fire is for heat control. it's recommended by the freak'n devs as much AND in this case it is in fact heat punishment?!

THAT IS A BUG! Even if it is working as intended.

[boomshekah]

AC, on 30 October 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

Can we just kill Ghost Heat yet? Talk about poor new user experience! sheesh!!!!

Yes, please!
Let´s bring back the 4 PPC Stalker and the 3 PPC+Ballisitc poptart Highlander and the Boomjaeger...and get blasted in one shot! The noobs are gonna love it!

[MustrumRidcully]

boomshekah, on 30 October 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Yes, please!
Let´s bring back the 4 PPC Stalker and the 3 PPC+Ballisitc poptart Highlander and the Boomjaeger...and get blasted in one shot! The noobs are gonna love it!

You know what stopped Quad PPC Stalkers?
10 heat per PPC and 15 heat per ER PPC.

You know what stopped 3 PPC + Gauss Rifle Highlanders?
Gauss Rifle Charge-Up System and 10 heat per PPC.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 30 October 2013 - 11:10 PM.

[FinsT]

MustrumRidcully, on 30 October 2013 - 11:09 PM, said:

You know what stopped Quad PPC Stalkers?
10 heat per PPC and 15 heat per ER PPC.

You know what stopped 3 PPC + Gauss Rifle Highlanders?
Gauss Rifle Charge-Up System and 10 heat per PPC.

Disagree. 40 heat per alpha is totally doable, and Stalker can load up LOTS of heatsinks to cool down quite really fast even from nearly full. They would still be around, if not for the fact that firing 4 PPCs is not 40, but 73.6 heat nowadays.

Mucho same for highlanders, who can just use AC10 instead of Gauss is they don't like charge-up system (alas for poptarts, charging up is not a big problem - they know the moment they gonna fire anyways - shortly after turning of 'em jets, eh).

[MustrumRidcully]

FinsT, on 30 October 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Disagree. 40 heat per alpha is totally doable, and Stalker can load up LOTS of heatsinks to cool down quite really fast even from nearly full. They would still be around, if not for the fact that firing 4 PPCs is not 40, but 73.6 heat nowadays.

But why not paly a Quad PPC Stalker that just fires two Twin PPC salvos 0.5+ seconds apart? That's still a solid 20 damage alpha each time, which is better than you can get with pretty much any other weapon, and you still have plenty of time to get into cover and cool off or at least torso-twist defensively.

That 0.5 second delay is reason enough to stop using Quad PPCs? It's not like switching to AC/5, UAC/5 or AC/10 gives you an higher alpha strike, and you need to fire evne more often for the same damage output, meaning less time to stay in cover or torso twist.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 31 October 2013 - 01:18 AM.

[OneEyed Jack]

FinsT, on 30 October 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Disagree. 40 heat per alpha is totally doable, and Stalker can load up LOTS of heatsinks to cool down quite really fast even from nearly full. They would still be around, if not for the fact that firing 4 PPCs is not 40, but 73.6 heat nowadays.

Mucho same for highlanders, who can just use AC10 instead of Gauss is they don't like charge-up system (alas for poptarts, charging up is not a big problem - they know the moment they gonna fire anyways - shortly after turning of 'em jets, eh).

90m hard-capped minimum range. Alone that wouldn't stop anyone, but when you have to choose between heat sinks and defensive weapons, it becomes very difficult to justify. And you're still going to be heavily outgunned by pretty much anything that gets inside your minimum, even if you do squeeze in some short-range weapons.

Sure, they could be run, but with higher heat, lower flight speed, minimum range, they wouldn't be good.

[PanzerMagier]

and by the way, technically Ac2's shouldn't be affected by ghost heat since the devs didn't officially add one to them... But they thought no one will notice if they put a limit of 2 on them anyways...

Edited by PanzerMagier, 31 October 2013 - 03:06 AM.

[mike29tw]

FinsT, on 30 October 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Disagree. 40 heat per alpha is totally doable, and Stalker can load up LOTS of heatsinks to cool down quite really fast even from nearly full. They would still be around, if not for the fact that firing 4 PPCs is not 40, but 73.6 heat nowadays.

Mucho same for highlanders, who can just use AC10 instead of Gauss is they don't like charge-up system (alas for poptarts, charging up is not a big problem - they know the moment they gonna fire anyways - shortly after turning of 'em jets, eh).

4PPCs stalker is as much doable as 6PPCs stalker before PPC nerf. 40 heat per alpha vs. 42 heat per alpha, and I haven't taken 90m hard min-range and slower projectile into consideration.

[OneEyed Jack]

mike29tw, on 31 October 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

4PPCs stalker is as much doable as 6PPCs stalker before PPC nerf. 40 heat per alpha vs. 42 heat per alpha, and I haven't taken 90m hard min-range and slower projectile into consideration.

Or the 20 less damage, which is often the difference between potentially one-shotting something and just torquing it off.