39 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Hi All,

I haven't yet bought a hero mech (though I have obviously bought other stuff). I really like Catapults in general, though I find the Founders a bit lacking since I've never enjoyed (or been effective playing) an LRM boat.

So I have been considering getting a Jester and was looking for information and opinions about what it is like in practice. Is it fun? Is it reasonable?

How does the Jester compare to the Firebrand (since the Firebrand has 2 extra ballistic slots but does not have a second AMS or jump jets).

Thanks for any replies

P.S. Just for reference, I have already mastered 3 Catapult variants and 3 Jagermech variants.

[Pariah Devalis]

Cannot compare to a FB. Can compare it to a Quickdraw or a Flame, however.

• Fast. If you do not slap on an XL350, it is a crime against Mechajesus.
  
• Hits hard. Some people like a pair of PPC backed up by medium lasers. I prefer two ERLLas and a quartet of Mediums. Either way, you are pushing a lot of damage out in very short order.
  
• Twin AMS. Makes Streaktaros and LRM boats cry. Especially the stupid ones who forget to shut off chainfire. Not much they can do to you when they fire their 50,000 LRM 5's one after another, and they all get swatted out of the air like gnats. Or 25,000 LRM 10's. Whatever.
  
• Greater than the sum of its parts. It may have the same loadout as some quickdraws out there, but between its speed, low stance, and low mounted torso weapons, it just clicks. Damage is tightly focused, the extra 5 tons allows it enough heat sinks to handle the weapon load, and it just keeps on kicking.
  
• Between the speed, arm type, and jump jets, it plays like a supercharged Jenner. Which is about as awesome as it sounds.
  
• However, limited arm movement is a bit of a downside to it. With an inability to shoot to the sides of your mech, you are forced to stare at your targets whenever you intend to shoot. This is a catapult problem, however, and not a Jester problem, specifically.

8/10. Would recommend.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 06 November 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[blacklp]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 November 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Cannot compare to a FB. Can compare it to a Quickdraw or a Flame, however.

• Fast. If you do not slap on an XL350, it is a crime against Mechajesus.
  
• Hits hard. Some people like a pair of PPC backed up by medium lasers. I prefer two ERLLas and a quartet of Mediums. Either way, you are pushing a lot of damage out in very short order.
  
• Twin AMS. Makes Streaktaros and LRM boats cry. Especially the stupid ones who forget to shut off chainfire. Not much they can do to you when they fire their 50,000 LRM 5's one after another, and they all get swatted out of the air like gnats. Or 25,000 LRM 10's. Whatever.
  
• Greater than the sum of its parts. It may have the same loadout as some quickdraws out there, but between its speed, low stance, and low mounted torso weapons, it just clicks. Damage is tightly focused, the extra 5 tons allows it enough heat sinks to handle the weapon load, and it just keeps on kicking.
  
• Between the speed, arm type, and jump jets, it plays like a supercharged Jenner. Which is about as awesome as it sounds.
  
• However, limited arm movement is a bit of a downside to it. With an inability to shoot to the sides of your mech, you are forced to stare at your targets whenever you intend to shoot. This is a catapult problem, however, and not a Jester problem, specifically.

8/10. Would recommend.

All of the above. I really gambled when I bought it, and I feel like I won.
It took some getting used to not having the ability to move the arms (I prefer my Victors) but this cat can really move.

[FireSlade]

Since I was trying to get a feel for it, I kept it cheap and dumped a heat sink and the 2 SLs for 2 MLs. Even playing on Terra Therma I did not overheat and managed to get close to 500 damage my first time out with it. Really a surprise to me considering that it has an all energy load-out and too few JJs for my taste. My biggest gripe, other than the JJs, is that AMS ammo is too short so you will want to go for the bigger XL engine and fix that. People, especially missile boats will hate you and your team will love you, just remember to always stay moving and twisting and you will shine with it.

[Otto Cannon]

Pariah Devalis said it all above really. I love it.


Edit: It seems the forum filter won't let me use the initials P and D together for some reason...

Edited by Otto Cannon, 06 November 2013 - 12:28 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 November 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Cannot compare to a FB. Can compare it to a Quickdraw or a Flame, however.

• Fast. If you do not slap on an XL350, it is a crime against Mechajesus.
  
• Hits hard. Some people like a pair of PPC backed up by medium lasers. I prefer two ERLLas and a quartet of Mediums. Either way, you are pushing a lot of damage out in very short order.
  
• Twin AMS. Makes Streaktaros and LRM boats cry. Especially the stupid ones who forget to shut off chainfire. Not much they can do to you when they fire their 50,000 LRM 5's one after another, and they all get swatted out of the air like gnats. Or 25,000 LRM 10's. Whatever.
  
• Greater than the sum of its parts. It may have the same loadout as some quickdraws out there, but between its speed, low stance, and low mounted torso weapons, it just clicks. Damage is tightly focused, the extra 5 tons allows it enough heat sinks to handle the weapon load, and it just keeps on kicking.
  
• Between the speed, arm type, and jump jets, it plays like a supercharged Jenner. Which is about as awesome as it sounds.
  
• However, limited arm movement is a bit of a downside to it. With an inability to shoot to the sides of your mech, you are forced to stare at your targets whenever you intend to shoot. This is a catapult problem, however, and not a Jester problem, specifically.

8/10. Would recommend.

so you think it will remove the bad Thunderbolt taste from my Mouth? It doesn't have to be Firebrand or Ilya good, but if it's as useful as my Protector, Wang or Slayer, I'll consider it.

[AlmightyAeng]

Pariah Devalis, on 06 November 2013 - 10:46 AM, said:

Cannot compare to a FB. Can compare it to a Quickdraw or a Flame, however.

Edit: It occurred to me that the statement I quoted may have been because that person does not OWN a Firebrand, not saying they're incomparable. If so, sorry, I misunderstood! Still ending up comparing them below, though
------------

Why not? They're both 65 ton 'mechs, and the OP's assertion that they're basically the same 'mech except that one trades out 2 ballistic slots for an extra AMS and jumpet is, basically correct...especially since he's judging it as two heroes side by side.

OP, the impression I get is that the catapult is being piloted as a faster, suprise striker. A lot of people run Firebrands with 6 ML's and dual AC5, UAC5 or (rarer) 2 AC10's. An XL 300ish is usually what ends up being used, giving a Firebrand a speed of 82.8 kph to compare to the 97.7 kph from an XL 350 in a Cat. The torso twist on the FB is FAST...and if you've got 3 Jagers mastered you know that the side torsos aren't TRULY that squishy if you play smart.

It comes down to playstyle. The Jester sacrifices some of the dakka dakka firepower for speed and agility and can utilize terrain via jumpjets. Speed and agility is nice, but I've yet to find a catapult (Jester included, as of last night) that my Firebrand hasn't taken in a one on one. The speed difference isn't THAT great...and I have no problems aiming UP at a 'mech in the air.

Note: I'm NOT saying the Jester isn't good. The standard 2 ERLL 4 ML build I'm seeing a lot of works great on OTHER mechs...why not one with badass torso twist like a Catapult? But I DO prefer other, comparable mechs and hero mechs.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 06 November 2013 - 12:39 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ghost Badger, on 06 November 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

Why not? They're both 65 ton 'mechs, and the OP's assertion that they're basically the same 'mech except that one trades out 2 ballistic slots for an extra AMS and jumpet is, basically correct...especially since he's judging it as two heroes side by side.

OP, the impression I get is that the catapult is being piloted as a faster, suprise striker. A lot of people run Firebrands with 6 ML's and dual AC5, UAC5 or (rarer) 2 AC10's. An XL 300ish is usually what ends up being used, giving a Firebrand a speed of 82.8 kph to compare to the 97.7 kph from an XL 350 in a Cat.

It comes down to playstyle. The Jester sacrifices some of the dakka dakka firepower for speed and agility and can utilize terrain via jumpjets. Speed and agility is nice, but I've yet to find a catapult (Jester included, as of last night) that my Firebrand hasn't taken in a one on one. The speed difference isn't THAT great...and I have no problems aiming UP at a 'mech in the air.

Note: I'm NOT saying the Jester isn't good. The standard 2 ERLL 4 ML build I'm seeing a lot of works great on OTHER mechs...why not one with badass torso twist like a Catapult? But I DO prefer other, comparable mechs and hero mechs.

I'd say that the reason you can't is specifically BECAUSE the speed, JJs and weapon mounts/Silhouettes make them for two totally different roles (even if most people just turn the poor FB into a dull boomjager)

The Jester is an in your face, in and out flanker of a heavy. The Firebrand, is best served peektarting and sniping from a distance. Those crazy high mount ballistics are what make and breaks the FB.

[NRP]

Pariah Devalis covered it all. It's a fun mech. Something about the way a Cat moves just feels "right". And it can jump.

[Oni Ralas]

I like mine, but the beams are still subpar in the current dakka fest.

[AlmightyAeng]

Bishop Steiner, on 06 November 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

I'd say that the reason you can't is specifically BECAUSE the speed, JJs and weapon mounts/Silhouettes make them for two totally different roles (even if most people just turn the poor FB into a dull boomjager)

The Jester is an in your face, in and out flanker of a heavy. The Firebrand, is best served peektarting and sniping from a distance. Those crazy high mount ballistics are what make and breaks the FB.

Obviously we disagree on the significance of 13.8 kph, and the role of a Firebrand. I don't play Peek-a-Snipe. With a 'fast striker' heavy, 82.2 and 96 kph don't seem particularly different to me.

OP - Here are the two builds (linked) I'd compare when considering a Firebrand vs. a Jester. Pick the one you think you'd enjoy more.

AMS included for team play (some people prefer, some don't). They are within 4% of each other for heat, within 2 damage of each other for alphas.

The notable difference I see is that the Firebrand puts out 4.96 Max dps vs. the Jester's 3.6, and the Jester runs 13.8 kph faster and has jump jets.

In my world, a 37.7% increase in DPS on a Firesupport/Striker build outweighs a 15.9% increase in speed + jumpjets.

But that's just me.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 06 November 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

I've bought a Jester and had fun in a grand total of two drops so far with it. It looks like it will be entertaining to play, but in the current AC-dominated game it won't be anything like as deadly as a Jaegermech. It is also going to suffer from rather limited load-out options. With only six energy slots there's not a huge amount of variety in what you can do with it. I put 4ML and 2ERLL on mine with a big XL engine and I suspect that is how most of the will be fielded.

[FireSlade]

I think what makes it so good is it is designed to be a hit and run mech not a DPS brawling mech. Basically you have 3 seconds between shots with a 1 second hold then you are turning away while the enemy tries to respond. While they are trying to track/find you, you run back lining up the next 38 (34 stock) damage alpha and then you are gone. You cannot really compare that style of fighting to the Firebrand since it is more of a sniping/DPS mech. In a straight up damage brawl between the two, the mech with the most DPS wins, Firebrand. Since PGI decided to give ballistic weapons very fast recycles that means the mech with the most ballistics will win. But when you add terrain and buildings to the mix now the FB is at a big disadvantage; They have limited ammo, slower turning speed, have to lead targets (harder to aim) and so on. In that kind of scenario, it boils down to pilot skill and maneuverability for the winner, Jester.

[Oni Ralas]

Ghost Badger, on 06 November 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Obviously we disagree on the significance of 13.8 kph, and the role of a Firebrand. I don't play Peek-a-Snipe. With a 'fast striker' heavy, 82.2 and 96 kph don't seem particularly different to me.

OP - Here are the two builds (linked) I'd compare when considering a Firebrand vs. a Jester. Pick the one you think you'd enjoy more.

AMS included for team play (some people prefer, some don't). They are within 4% of each other for heat, within 2 damage of each other for alphas.

The notable difference I see is that the Firebrand puts out 4.96 Max dps vs. the Jester's 3.6, and the Jester runs 13.8 kph faster and has jump jets.

In my world, a 37.7% increase in DPS on a Firesupport/Striker build outweighs a 15.9% increase in speed + jumpjets.

But that's just me.

Ignore sustained DPS numbers, they're essentialy meaningless. Different strokes, I can't live w/out JJ's these days.

[AlmightyAeng]

Oni Ralas, on 06 November 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Ignore sustained DPS numbers, they're essentialy meaningless. Different strokes, I can't live w/out JJ's these days.

Oni, *shrug* Different strokes indeed. Fine...with the same 'alpha' I feel like the recycle lets me hit harder and faster with the Firebrand, and I like that. I'll take the drop in speed/agility, which I consider negligible.

Fireslade, EVERYTHING 'boils down to pilot skill,' and teamwork, and is situational. S'why I was comparing a straight up 1v1...and I'd disagree with you. I hit things harder in the Firebrand, and have no issues chasing down Jesters in 'rough terrain.' 13 kph is like a legged 'mech trying to run away under fire. We're both running along, but the distance isn't exactly getting bigger.

[Pariah Devalis]

Correct on your second thought there Ghost. I meant that I personally cannot compare them. Do not own a Firebrand.

It absolutely comes down to playstyle. When I run Jester, I find I incorporate tactics that I would use when piloting a Jenner or a Spider. Smart use of jump jets to keep terrain where I want it, when I want it, or to out-turn, out-maneuver, or just outright out-pilot the enemy. Gotta say, jumping over someone while unloading the arm ERLLas, turning 90-180 as you descend, and discharging the four medium lasers into their back before burning rubber and setting up for another pass is extremely satisfying. Grabbing the attention of the entire enemy team and knowing that even though they all want you dead, the only things that can catch you are things you could eat for breakfast, and slowly luring them back into your team is something this mech does with aplomb, as well.

[FireSlade]

Ghost Badger, on 06 November 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Oni, *shrug* Different strokes indeed. Fine...with the same 'alpha' I feel like the recycle lets me hit harder and faster with the Firebrand, and I like that. I'll take the drop in speed/agility, which I consider negligible.

Fireslade, EVERYTHING 'boils down to pilot skill,' and teamwork, and is situational. S'why I was comparing a straight up 1v1...and I'd disagree with you. I hit things harder in the Firebrand, and have no issues chasing down Jesters in 'rough terrain.' 13 kph is like a legged 'mech trying to run away under fire. We're both running along, but the distance isn't exactly getting bigger.

You are right 13kph is not much... Until you add in turning rates and JJs. I honestly do not like the Jagermech or the style that is requires to pilot it. To me a Jagermech is no different than an Assault mech like the Atlas, just less alpha damage and armor. I prefer using the terrain to my advantage and rarely get caught in a brawl. But I guess that where your and my play styles differentiate. Also I find Jagermechs very easy to kill if you aim for the armpit, seeing there is a nice big area to aim at and they all have XLs to fit the heavy ballistics and if they do not have an XL you remove half of their weapons.

[blacklp]

I see the firebrand comparison is coming up.
Please note that having jump jets considerably increases survivability.
Also please note that catapults arguably have better torso hitboxes.

[AlmightyAeng]

Yes, aim for a Jagermech side torso. It's still smaller than a catapult CT, and I'm willing to bet that I'll take out your CT before you take out my ST.

Jumpjets CAN increase survivability...depending on how they're used. So can big guns.

OP wanted a comparison. I threw him one with the differences I saw, and we ALL seem to be giving him our preferences. See y'all on the field

[Thejuggla]

I bought it last night, I am happy with the purchase. I used a xl325 it is fast(81 before tweak) running with dual ppc with dual ams 18 heat sinks and 4 medium lasers. First mech I've pop tarted with and now I'm wondering why I haven't pop tarted before. High mounted arm ppcs are useful. The low amount of JJ(only 2) is quite lame but you can still pop tart over some hills. Combined with a fast engine to get a running start you can make it up a lot of hills too.